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Paladinum

Design H40A - "Super Gneisenau" - No Firepower Nonsense

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Overview:

H40A is a design study that succeeds H39 but carries only 6 guns in three double turrets.

Compare to H39 (Friedrich der Grosse (“FdG”) in-game), H40A is slightly bigger and, depending on sources, faster than H39. Other statistics seem to be similar, if not identical, to FdG.

I did consider putting this ship as T8, but it's harder to balance at T8, and Germany needs a free xp BB anyway, so T9 it is. The design is unique in a German way - no firepower nonsense. I can go into a "scientific" explanation of why I call this design "no firepower" but that would be way too long of a thread. Just know that even with 29s reload (buffed 420 mm for FdG), this design can reach 167k DPM, which is only 7k higher than Gneisenau (the ship that has the worst DPM in all of T7 BBs). However, German manli- I mean toughness shines through for this design, and her excellent survivability will compensate nicely. FdG is very tough to be killed one-on-one, for reference. What I proposed focuses heavily on survivability and secondary which is very German in the game.

Comparing to FdG, I want this ship to have:
+ Better secondary
+ Better survivability
+ (Optionally) Better main guns' accuracy 

 

Also, my German BB split proposal:

https://forum.worldofwarships.asia/topic/34635-german-bb-split-proposal/

 

Historical stats:

Lots of these depend on sources, but I’d bet that WG take most stats from FdG

HP estimation: heavier than FdG, therefore slightly more HP than FdG.

Primary armament: 3x2 420 mm

Secondary armament: 6x2 150 mm & 8x2 105 mm DP (same as most H-class designs)

Torpedoes: possibly WG will not add them for the ship, if they do, would be 2x3 or even 2x4 tubes (exact type of torpedoes is unknown). They didn’t add torps on FdG/H39.

Speed: 28 – 32 knots. Surely this will turn as good as FdG.

Armor: mostly the same as FdG. 220 - 300 mm (armor belt). Either WG make this an FdG clone (more or less) or they make this with a twist of armor, for better protection against AP bombs.

 

(Proposed) In-game stats:

HP: about 86k. Better torpedo damage reduction, 35% instead of 25% on FdG.

Main guns: 3x2 420 mm. 29s reload, 1.9 sigma. 20.3 km range. HE shells have 1/4 HE pen (which is a German BB standard). Main gun reload, the shorter the better.

Secondary: same as GK. 10x2 128 mm DP and 4x2 150 mm. This ship would still do well with FdG's secondary suite. 100 m dispersion at max range (7.7 km), 2.0 - 2.5 sigma.

(Optional) Torpedoes: 2x4 533 mm, torps from Tirpitz or Graf Spee.

AA: short and mid-range are the same as Hull B FdG. Long-range is the same as GK.

Maneuverability: same as FdG. 30 knots speed. 940 m turning circle radius. Rudder shift time 17,5s.

Concealment: same as FdG. 15.7 km by sea, 13 km by air.

Consumables: same DCP and Hydro as FdG. No Spotter, just Cat Fighter. Same RP as Nueve de Julio. Alternatively, Nelson’s RP.

 

Picking a name:

There is no way the ship (a BB no less) can be in the game being called “H40A”. These are the names I propose, some of these are taken from names of older German battleships:

+ Prinzregent Luitpold (Kaiser-class)

+ Kaiserin (Kaiser-class)

+ Kronprinz (König-class)

+ Markgraf (König-class)

+ Ulrich von Hutten -or- Götz von Berlichingen (believed to be names that Hitler chose for some H-class BBs)

I prefer either "Kaiserin" or "Markgraf".

Edited by Paladinum

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[KGHSF]
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I need sigma 2.0 or 1.9 I'm very sicked hangging with 1.8 below 

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44 minutes ago, THAI_THIEF said:

I need sigma 2.0 or 1.9 I'm very sicked hangging with 1.8 below 

I did consider 2.0 but that isn't German enough :Smile_trollface:  I'd rather buff the reload thou :Smile_hiding:

15 hours ago, Paladinum said:

Main guns: 3x2 420 mm. 29s reload, 1.9 sigma. 20.3 km range. HE shells have 1/4 HE pen (which is a German BB standard).

 

Edited by Paladinum

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The design look goods , except that it is very questionable if you can get your secondary to sing before sinking.

If anything , the current proposal look like exp pinata because SEA meta is kite and troll.

Harugumos and khaba will probably drools at this thing.

I suggest this get the crappy German main guns like usual and get Massachusetts level of secondary non sense.

All in manliness is da bezt

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[MRI]
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Hmm looks interesting.

While it may be something I don't mind getting, I don't think it will be very popular to anybody except Secondary enthusiasts and/or Wehraboos.

All the hate the PEF gets shows that with a weak main battery, no amount of Secondaries can sell the ship unless you buff them to Massachusetts levels of Secondary power. Even then Massachusetts has good main guns albeit slightly less accurate than normal.

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14 hours ago, Paladinum said:

I did consider 2.0 but that isn't German enough :Smile_trollface:  I'd rather buff the reload thou :Smile_hiding:

OH YEAH SUPER ILL

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6 hours ago, legionary2099 said:

 

I suggest this get the crappy German main guns like usual and get Massachusetts level of secondary non sense.

All in manliness is da bezt

20s main gun reload :Smile_trollface:

4 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

Even then Massachusetts has good main guns albeit slightly less accurate than normal.

I think I'll update the secondary so that the ship would have GK sec range and like 3.0 sigma and 50 m dispersion at max range :Smile_trollface:

 

The problem is, people think that FdG is bad because they are too focused on main guns when they play BBs. While the German 406/420 do have worse accuracy, the raw penetration of those guns are not bad at all. Or they complain because those guns are unreliable for max range campers.

 

Please visit my German BB split thread... :Smile_hiding:

Edited by Paladinum

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2 hours ago, Paladinum said:

20s main gun reload :Smile_trollface:

I think I'll update the secondary so that the ship would have GK sec range and like 3.0 sigma and 50 m dispersion at max range :Smile_trollface:

 

The problem is, people think that FdG is bad because they are too focused on main guns when they play BBs. While the German 406/420 do have worse accuracy, the raw penetration of those guns are not bad at all. Or they complain because those guns are unreliable for max range campers.

 

Please visit my German BB split thread... :Smile_hiding:

Not many have the skill or plain luck to make secondary works on SEA. Most high tier match are long range slug fest after all. The ship just isnt appealing to the majority. Though it'll super fun and hilarious when it work.

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35 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

Not many have the skill or plain luck to make secondary works on SEA. Most high tier match are long range slug fest after all. The ship just isnt appealing to the majority. Though it'll super fun and hilarious when it work.

I don't rely on secondary in my FdG, but I'm still try to go mano a mano with my nearest enemy, preferably BBs and torpless cruisers. 

Many people play German BBs wrong and then complain about them (there is a thread on PEF, lmao). I try to keep my distance no more than 15 km, but no less than 10. That distance takes advantages of the turtleback, secondary range and horrible accuracy. If you can survive until late game (~8 mins or half the teams left), only DDs can truly stop you, not even a Yamato.

If I have a H40A like this I will make her work.

Edited by Paladinum

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22 hours ago, THAI_THIEF said:

I need sigma 2.0 or 1.9 I'm very sicked hangging with 1.8 below 

Thats gonna be hilarious to see germans as OP as that. I will happily take Gneisenau(3x2 turret) with that dispersion and sigma to 10 battle. LMAO

 

22 hours ago, Paladinum said:

I did consider 2.0 but that isn't German enough :Smile_trollface:  I'd rather buff the reload thou :Smile_hiding:

 

Yep germans really could use some reload buff :Smile_glasses: 

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50 minutes ago, MD047 said:

Yep germans really could use some reload buff :Smile_glasses: 

Imagine 18s on Gneisenau/Bismarck and 20/24s for FdG :Smile_trollface: PTSD fuel

Buff Hipper, Roon and Hindenburg secondary. Secondary cruisers ftw.

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Even PEF is good. It's just a Kongo with a German skin TBH. It's clearly distinct from its muscles brain sisters in the tech tree. A German mid range sniper.

IDK why it get all the hate , it's penetration is very weak , but that's perfect for punishing bad cruiser gameplay. It is less prone to get overpens on cruisers than other BB.

And suprisingly , it also get a good 2nd & AA package for a tier VI , it can fend for itself with some investment.

This ship reward good play , complaining about it just mean you need to polish yourself up.

Anyway , back to the proposal , the Scharn is already a cross hybrid , the mainline is tanky , i really think this ship should get some love so that it could be an offensive powerhouse with secondaries.

And maybe give it a 50mm deck to stop DD HE spam.

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