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Grygus_Triss

Future Radar Changes

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3 hours ago, dieselhead said:

WG dont need to make massive changes, just nerf the duration and range. Radar is important for game play but atm its just a bit over done.

11.7km is total bs and so is 40sec+ duration.

It's not rocket science, no need to reinvent the wheel, the simplest solution is often the best.

I do agree that WG aren't very good at balancing numbers. That's my number one grudge against them, esp. when it comes to RN ships (overflowing with gimmicks).

Why something like the current radar has 40s+ duration????

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On 1/21/2019 at 4:26 PM, Grygus_Triss said:

This will help many DDs survive the first 5 minutes.

Or, to rephrase slightly, this will no longer punish foolish DDs who hop into the cap right at the start without knowing the disposition of the enemy fleet first.

I'm not against a small tweak to reduce radar effectiveness - it's currently overpowered the same way that stealth firing from smoke was overpowered a couple of years back now. But braindead DDs should be punished: if you go into a cap without knowing where the radar ships are, or if you insist on pushing in against a radar cruiser instead of backing off and letting your cruisers deal with it first, you deserve what you get...

 

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There were a lot of ways to punish not just Foolish/BrainDead DD though, CVs, RPFs.

But all I can whatever WG introduce so far, they seemed not so willing to fine-turn the details ("Too Complex").

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1 hour ago, Rina_Pon said:

Or, to rephrase slightly, this will no longer punish foolish DDs who hop into the cap right at the start without knowing the disposition of the enemy fleet first.

I'm not against a small tweak to reduce radar effectiveness - it's currently overpowered the same way that stealth firing from smoke was overpowered a couple of years back now. But braindead DDs should be punished: if you go into a cap without knowing where the radar ships are, or if you insist on pushing in against a radar cruiser instead of backing off and letting your cruisers deal with it first, you deserve what you get...

 

Can’t really disagree with that sentiment. A lot of DD captains still have the “rush the cap” mentality developed for T2 to 7, and need to learn. And that’s what I think this change will help with. It’s not a guaranteed “get out of jail free”, it’s a chance to survive. You could still get caught Sitting in smoke stationery by a Worcester, who could easily kill you himself.

The other side is that the changes help the team. Yeah, the DD captain get punished for being foolish, but so does the rest of the team for his foolishness. Or that’s how it feels now with so much dependent on DD spotting and capping. Losing your team’s DDs to their own single stupid mistake in the first 5 minutes is painful. A DD who has just lost half his health is likely to be more careful, while still being useful.

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Honestly, this change only effect for  Teamplay in Soviet Radar ship.....
USN and RN got longest duration and most of veteran radar ship player always kill enemy DD alone.... IMHO

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4 hours ago, Rina_Pon said:

Or, to rephrase slightly, this will no longer punish foolish DDs who hop into the cap right at the start without knowing the disposition of the enemy fleet first.

I'm not against a small tweak to reduce radar effectiveness - it's currently overpowered the same way that stealth firing from smoke was overpowered a couple of years back now. But braindead DDs should be punished: if you go into a cap without knowing where the radar ships are, or if you insist on pushing in against a radar cruiser instead of backing off and letting your cruisers deal with it first, you deserve what you get...

 

So if I play like you say and wit until my cruisers deal with enemy radar cruiser, lets say a Moskva, Im not getting anywhere near that cap for most of the game sine Moskva can tank pretty well.

What happens if its a Stalingrad lurking in hiding? I just wait until someone kills it? Thats pretty bad that one ship totally negates the use of an entire line of ships. If I played by your way of thinking I would get nothing done.

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22 hours ago, dieselhead said:

So if I play like you say and wit until my cruisers deal with enemy radar cruiser, lets say a Moskva, Im not getting anywhere near that cap for most of the game sine Moskva can tank pretty well.

What happens if its a Stalingrad lurking in hiding? I just wait until someone kills it? Thats pretty bad that one ship totally negates the use of an entire line of ships. If I played by your way of thinking I would get nothing done.

Agree wholeheartedly ; the problem with Radar as for now ( and the coming CV and lousy AA change ) means there exist only play for CA and BB as only they can tank it , even CL is off the limit, when such gameplay for a category or two of ships are taken away entirely from the player, that's something wrong tha need to be deal with. DD's main weapon in gameplay is stealth and hide and basically when the mechanism take these away .. what else is a DD to do, stay back, and then its no longer possible for them to spot for the team ... and ambush well you cannot ambush if you cannot remain hidden. So unless the Radar / CV change reflect a balance for Radar / CV to counter surveillance instead of just a no price pay god's eye view to see all regardless it might still be viable but I am not seeing that.

Two points need to be addressed ; Radar should not be having this for free, there must be a downside to using the Radar as well as the advantage gain and right now its zero cost. And Radar must not be allowed to take away entire school of gameplay from DD and CL which its doing now. I think one of the best suggestion is the delay reporting of sighting to the Radar team that is the lighted up ship's position will always be 2 or 3 second delayed but the ship being lighted up will get that 2 or 3 second lead time knowing that he/she had been lighted up. This allow both side a fair play to engage or disengage

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On 1/22/2019 at 8:59 PM, Paladinum said:

Also US cruisers have Radar and Hydro in the same slot. Your argument is invalid :Smile_trollface:

welp, I never saw any US cruiser pick hydro over radar

for choice that is so obvious, I won't call that a good trade-off.

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12 minutes ago, PGM991 said:

welp, I never saw any US cruiser pick hydro over radar

for choice that is so obvious, I won't call that a good trade-off.

Exactly why radar needs nerfing. US cruisers can't even use Hydro anyway because CQC is a no-no for any captain with half a brain.

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On 1/23/2019 at 11:45 AM, Rina_Pon said:

Or, to rephrase slightly, this will no longer punish foolish DDs who hop into the cap right at the start without knowing the disposition of the enemy fleet first.

I'm not against a small tweak to reduce radar effectiveness - it's currently overpowered the same way that stealth firing from smoke was overpowered a couple of years back now. But braindead DDs should be punished: if you go into a cap without knowing where the radar ships are, or if you insist on pushing in against a radar cruiser instead of backing off and letting your cruisers deal with it first, you deserve what you get...

 

As long as both teams have the same number of radar ships this is a valid arguement.

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38 minutes ago, PGM991 said:

welp, I never saw any US cruiser pick hydro over radar

for choice that is so obvious, I won't call that a good trade-off.

Actually, US cruisers do NOT have radar and hydro in the same slot.

US CA’s get choice between scout plane and radar.

And in a different slot, DFAA or Hydro.

 

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33 minutes ago, Puggsley said:

As long as both teams have the same number of radar ships this is a valid arguement.

unfortunately usually that is not the case, and even more so , not equal amount of Soviet Radar ( long range ) vs US Radar ( long duration ). Seen so many games where there is multiple Radar vs might be 1 or even null on the other side

Edited by Mechfori

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18 hours ago, Mechfori said:

unfortunately usually that is not the case, and even more so , not equal amount of Soviet Radar ( long range ) vs US Radar ( long duration ). Seen so many games where there is multiple Radar vs might be 1 or even null on the other side

To all practical intent such an imbalance isn't gamechanging. Most Soviet "cruisers" bow-tank from the B-line for the first half of the game, only late game to they push up near enough to the cap for their radar to come into play. Cap contesting radar duties typically falls to the USN line. There too, it's not numbers that decide it, but positioning.

What people often miss about radar though is it comes with a big negative penalty on team damage output: a cruiser pushing up to radar a cap must do so under concealment, usually by hiding behind a large island. That often means they can't shoot at anything for the first 10 minutes of the game. So, if you as a DD know a DesMoines is camping at island X, all you have to do is go someplace else and he's stuck pointlessly waiting to be outflanked and killed, since to move out of his cover means being instantly deleted.

The other thing people seem to miss is there is no imperative to cap so long as the enemy is also prevented from doing so. If the cap is made a no-go area by an enemy cruiser, it suffices to station one of your radar cruisers over the same cap to prevent the enemy DD from taking it. That essentially removes the cap from the game, and the battle moves to the remaining ones.

So many players don't seem to be able to visualize the long game: it's all about move and countermove, faint and counterfaint, probing for weaknesses. Sooner rather than later one team will get impatient and make an actionable mistake. 

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22 hours ago, PGM991 said:

welp, I never saw any US cruiser pick hydro over radar

for choice that is so obvious, I won't call that a good trade-off.

USN CA can use Hydro and Radar....
Hydro is same slot with DFAA
Radar is same slot with Spotter
in Clan Battle DM always use Both, even in random i use both because low CV population.....
next patch ill be abck using DFAA if CV rework come in live server

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OK so they said, my Yueyang is OP because of the radar and they nerfed her into oblivion. My question is, will they give me back my old Yueyang after they nerf Radar ? 😕

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