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Rina_Pon

Prinz Eitel Friedrich Armor Scheme?

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http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Prinz_Eitel_Friedrich

Reviews and posts I've read incorrectly led me to assume this ship was a battlecruiser. c.f. LWM

"

  • Vulnerable citadel for a German battleship with no turtleback armour.
  • Armed with only eight 350mm guns with poor AP penetration and weak HE shells.

"

In my experience, however, this ship seems to be unusually tough, especially the flat broadside. With my IJN 203mm AP I get very little, often a bizarre mix of overpens and misses. I've blasted away at it at point blank range with a Konig, with only some pens to show for it. I've seen the ship demolish an angled New Mexico at around 10 km.

So I'm thinking "not a battlecruiser".

What's the most effective strategy? Incinerate with HE or heavy caliber 16" AP?

Are there particular sections of the hull worth aiming for with smaller guns?

 

 

Edited by Rina_Pon

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The citadel is quite low, so hard to pen at close range. Use HE spam or plunging BB AP from 12km or further.

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this bastard look like dont inherit german accuracy,  i got citadeled from my emil bertin 3 times.....

this ship also quite hard to kill..... battlecruiser my ass, its battleship disguised as cruiser.

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Historically speaking, German "battlecruisers" are much more fast battleships than any flimsy battlecruiser the RN ever fielded (except Hood). Don't call PEF a battlecruiser. Would be a disgrace to the awesome design.

 

PEF has 3 belts: 270 mm mostly above the waterline, but does not connect to the citadel. The 300 mm is deep below the water which connects to the citadel, so it's super hard to citadel the ship. A 225 mm is a super thin band, and sits below the 350 mm belt, how hard is it to hit it?

 

203 mm AP doesn't do much to BBs in the game anyway (unless it's a Republique), so use HE and aim for the superstructure.

406 mm is the most effective gun size in the game (regardless of nations), so use that.

Edited by Paladinum

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It has german BB dispersion with 2.0 sigma, so does get some volleys with really tight groupings. 

But.... the guns suck. Very poor HE performance and very poor AP pen against armoured targets. As Top tier or in Ranked Sprint its, meh, hard to get decent damage. When uptieired you might as well be AFK. Not a good ship. My least favourite premium battleship.

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1 hour ago, Paladinum said:

't do much to BBs in the game anyway (unless it's a Republique)

nope, the rep getting cit by 203 AP was a underwater shell bug, long since patched

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While your experiences in game may differ due to good RNG and enemy mistakes, she most definitely is a battlecruiser, a decently armoured one, but still a battlecruiser. Her armour is very weak compared to Bayern which is an actual BB. Yes by % of displacement IRL German BB and BC did have more armour than RN ships, but this does not turn a BC into a BB.

Her armour scheme is a mixed bag. Yes you can bait shots onto your decent main belt if you angle right. She will be a fairly tanky ship if you can maintain this profile towards incoming fire. Unfortunately her best armour sits underneath the waterline and this makes her quite weak. Thickest belt 300mm is under water Extended fore belt of 120mm and the 30mm bow section are also all under water. Also the aft extended belt of 100mm is, yep you guessed it, underwater too. All an enemy needs to do is aim just at or above the waterline to completely bypass your best armour. Anything firing 380mm or bigger (Warspite, Queen Liz, Bayern or Mutsu) at your tier or above will overmatch your bows and wreck you. Citadel frontal protection is very weak. Broadside on to a BB player who can aim and click you will take citadels very consistently. Could have been a very tanky ship when angled if these >25mm armour parts were above water, but they aren't and she isn't.

However when you turn and show side you are just a big cruiser and your belt armour doesn't count for much when you are broadside on to incoming BB fire. You will take a paddlin. This just doesn't happen in a Bayern or any turtleback scheme BB. Yes you will still take pens and damage in a Bayern but you can generally get away with needing to expose your side in a turn. Also in my experience I have taken big damage citadels from fire coming from directly in front from guns that should not be able to overmatch my plating. New Mex hit me around the bow for over 27k from directly in front so yeah.

Dealing reliable damage in this ship is very frustrating. WG advertised the ship as well armoured (despite having no turtle back and pretty useless under water armour) and as having very accurate (for German) guns. While the guns do tend to get more consistent groupings, it doesn't matter in the least if your shells completely suck. AP pen falls away very fast at range. PEF has the worst pen values of any T6 BB. AP stops being effective against BB at ranges over 12km or when target is angled so you switch to HE only to realise that getting 3 k per AP salvo was far better than your HE anyway. You are strong when you are top tier, but very mediocre bordering on useless when bottom.

I have had some good games in her but apart from the AA and ok secondaries there isn't much there to keep you playing. Very disappointing premium.

Edited by HobartAWD
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Thanks for the replies.

They mirror the discussion I've read elsewhere: Many people find PEF is a frustrating and unrewarding ship to play, but at the same time many people agree it's a difficult ship to play against.

In summary: keep her at arms length, avoid hitting the main belt, go for the extremities, deck, and superstructure. If possible let your T7 and T8 BBs handle the job.

 

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7 hours ago, HobartAWD said:

While your experiences in game may differ due to good RNG and enemy mistakes, she most definitely is a battlecruiser, a decently armoured one, but still a battlecruiser. Her armour is very weak compared to Bayern which is an actual BB. Yes by % of displacement IRL German BB and BC did have more armour than RN ships, but this does not turn a BC into a BB.

Her armour scheme is a mixed bag. Yes you can bait shots onto your decent main belt if you angle right. She will be a fairly tanky ship if you can maintain this profile towards incoming fire. Unfortunately her best armour sits underneath the waterline and this makes her quite weak. Thickest belt 300mm is under water Extended fore belt of 120mm and the 30mm bow section are also all under water. Also the aft extended belt of 100mm is, yep you guessed it, underwater too. All an enemy needs to do is aim just at or above the waterline to completely bypass your best armour. Anything firing 380mm or bigger (Warspite, Queen Liz, or Mutsu) at your tier or above will overmatch your bows and wreck you. Citadel frontal protection is very weak. Broadside on to a BB player who can aim and click you will take citadels very consistently. Could have been a very tanky ship when angled if these >25mm armour parts were above water, but they aren't and she isn't.

However when you turn and show side you are just a big cruiser and your belt armour doesn't count for much when you are broadside on to incoming BB fire. You will take a paddlin. This just doesn't happen in a Bayern or any turtleback scheme BB. Yes you will still take pens and damage in a Bayern but you can generally get away with needing to expose your side in a turn. Also in my experience I have taken big damage citadels from fire coming from directly in front from guns that should not be able to overmatch my plating. New Mex hit me around the bow for over 27k from directly in front so yeah.

Dealing reliable damage in this ship is very frustrating. WG advertised the ship as well armoured (despite having no turtle back and pretty useless under water armour) and as having very accurate (for German) guns. While the guns do tend to get more consistent groupings, it doesn't matter in the least if your shells completely suck. AP pen falls away very fast at range. PEF has the worst pen values of any T6 BB. AP stops being effective against BB at ranges over 12km or when target is angled so you switch to HE only to realise that getting 3 k per AP salvo was far better than your HE anyway. You are strong when you are top tier, but very mediocre bordering on useless when bottom.

I have had some good games in her but apart from the AA and ok secondaries there isn't much there to keep you playing. Very disappointing premium.

 

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I do not find it a hard ship to play against in the least. I enjoy coming up against one as they are not difficult to damage and kill. If I'm in a Bayern or Warspite with 15" guns it is simply snack time.

Only time I find a PEF hard to play against is when I am in a PEF also.

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I've quite enjoyed PEF, more than I thought I would since I saw many people say they hated it.

It requires good positioning awareness, and good knowledge of AP mechanics, but I find it rewarding. The guns are great for KM BB guns, the 2.0 sigma makes them quite accurate, and the low pen is easily compensated for by aiming correctly (upper belt on all BB's until sub-8km), resulting in plenty of reg pens.  It's quite tanky and rewards good angling plus has an underwater citadel, although you have the potential to eat some citadels at range if you get your angles wrong.

Overall it's a pretty usable package.

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If I were to sum up the PEF in one word, that word would be "inconsistent".

Guns have very good accuracy, but the shells are very bad. HE shells have very poor damage, while the AP shells have bad penetration. You will have no trouble deleting broadside cruisers thanks to your great accuracy, but you will struggle to do any meaningful damage against else. Against BBs, you can forget about getting citadel hits unless they are presenting a flat broadside at very close ranges. Better to just aim higher at the upper belt or superstructure and get regular pens that way.

I find the PEF is rather similar to the Graf Spee in that both are good at ambushing and deleting broadsiding cruisers, but bad against anything else. Also both ships are great when top-tiered, but struggle a lot when bottom-tiered. Therefore both ships are hostage to the whims of the MM. Get a cruiser heavy match or are top tier? You will have a good game. Get a match with very few enemy cruisers or are bottom-tiered? You will might as well be AFK.

So your mileage will vary when playing the PEF, and it will vary a lot. Don't be surprised if you carry the game and top the scoreboard in one match, and find yourself at the bottom of the scoreboard in the next.

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