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MrHumpty_Dumpty

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I recently unlocked my Bismarck, and i am quite new to the game, but all the time i will keep trying to play my bismarck like my Gneisenau by playing aggresivley and using my 15 inch guns to pen CA and BB. But in my Bismarck, i keep running into CL and CA that spam HE, and when i fire back, all i get are 1-2 pens and overpens. They always set fire to me and i wait till i get distance to use damage repair and fire control. I really don’t understand what i am doing wrong in my bismarck, and could reslly do with some help.

 

 

 

Thanks for helping and reading.

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

I recently unlocked my Bismarck, and i am quite new to the game, but all the time i will keep trying to play my bismarck like my Gneisenau by playing aggresivley and using my 15 inch guns to pen CA and BB. But in my Bismarck, i keep running into CL and CA that spam HE, and when i fire back, all i get are 1-2 pens and overpens. They always set fire to me and i wait till i get distance to use damage repair and fire control. I really don’t understand what i am doing wrong in my bismarck, and could reslly do with some help.

 

 

 

Thanks for helping and reading.

 

 

 

20

You didnt do anything wrong. Bismarck's guns are unreliable at any distance longer than ~14 km so close combat is the only way you can inflict any damage to enemies and in return, her enormous superstructure is lit on fire everytime a HE shell hits it. The only trick is to choose your opponents carefully, upgrade your secondaries and dont take on multiple targets at once, lest you be burnt to death. 

Edited by Stormcloak_Rebel

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on the other hand , think about what if you are playing the CA, CL or even DD .. their AP won't do a thin on your hull and they might not be able to torp you ( out of range, friendly in line of battle etc etc  ) so what can they do, HE spam of course .. its an effective way to deal damage and in your case drive you back.

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I understand why CA, CL and DD use HE, but fires shouldnt be so effective in the amount of Damage they do, like it is annoying how a slow BB cant retreat without losing 1/4 health, but then you put youself 18-20km away from the battle, where Bismarck guns are innefective

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58 minutes ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

I understand why CA, CL and DD use HE, but fires shouldnt be so effective in the amount of Damage they do, like it is annoying how a slow BB cant retreat without losing 1/4 health, but then you put youself 18-20km away from the battle, where Bismarck guns are innefective

5

Luckily for you, Bismarck and/or any kriegsmarine BBs are quite fast compared to other national ships (30knts is quite sufficient for a BB imo ) and they're highly responsive to sudden turns so you can always try to escape/ or do a zigzag if youre a pro to dodge HE spam. By  learning this evasive maneuver you can get away from an ambush with a little life left in you.  

Edited by Stormcloak_Rebel

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What the OP has described is really one of the major failings of this game and as one who has always been a BB user I can relate to his frustration.

I say "major failing" because WoWs does not allow us (BB drivers) to play in a fashion which is anywhere realistic.

When I first came into WoWs (over three years back) it was possible for a BB captain to operate in a somewhat realistic fashion in that we could sit out of the range of DD and CA guns and use the advantage of range and hitting-power of the larger guns with which a BB is equipped.

Then everything changed - almost overnight - and WG penalised the BBs by linking scores (points, earnings etc) to distance being travelled during the battle - the "drive forward", in effect.
If the BB was played in a realistic manner then the final points were lower than if the ship was played like a CA by moving forward into the melee.

The BB had become just another CA but with big guns yet without the speed and manouverability of the cruiser.

So now, when I play my battleships, I push towards a base (A, B, C...whatever) and play the thing as I would a cruiser. I also use HE more often than not as I have learned that AP against DDs and CAs is not as efficient as burning the things.

Most of the time I will be destroyed by a mix of HE and torpedoes but I will have probably demolished at least one DD or CA and will also have assisted in the capture of a base.

It goes against the grain and still frustrates me but this is how you need to play your Bismarck.

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3 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

I understand why CA, CL and DD use HE, but fires shouldnt be so effective in the amount of Damage they do,...

You're dead right on that point....and that is what irritates the hell out of me because I now have to use HE when operating my battleships in order to try and counter the DDs and CAs.

And the one ship which makes me groan and say "Oh, no. Not that!" is when I see an Atlanta in the mix! Those things are mobile flamethrowers and can turn your BB into a bonfire in no time.

Edited by HenryCrun

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This is where the game makes you either stick to a captain/ship build or spend money respeccing.     The KMBB's from the Gneis up are great brawlers but over the past 2 years the meta now is heavily influenced by the ability to burn everything to the waterline.   You either have to manage your repairs or build your ship accordingly.

 

I personally still run a pure brawling build and never sail alone.

 

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1 hour ago, HenryCrun said:

When I first came into WoWs (over three years back) it was possible for a BB captain to operate in a somewhat realistic fashion in that we could sit out of the range of DD and CA guns and use the advantage of range and hitting-power of the larger guns with which a BB is equipped.

Then everything changed - almost overnight - and WG penalised the BBs by linking scores (points, earnings etc) to distance being travelled during the battle - the "drive forward", in effect.
If the BB was played in a realistic manner then the final points were lower than if the ship was played like a CA by moving forward into the melee.

The BB had become just another CA but with big guns yet without the speed and manouverability of the cruiser.

So now, when I play my battleships, I push towards a base (A, B, C...whatever) and play the thing as I would a cruiser. I also use HE more often than not as I have learned that AP against DDs and CAs is not as efficient as burning the things.

Most of the time I will be destroyed by a mix of HE and torpedoes but I will have probably demolished at least one DD or CA and will also have assisted in the capture of a base.

It goes against the grain and still frustrates me but this is how you need to play your Bismarck.

Is this guy trolling? Someone please tell me he is trolling..

Cause if he isn't, that means he hasn't figured out the game in "over three years".

:Smile_facepalm:

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13 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

Is this guy trolling? Someone please tell me he is trolling..

Cause if he isn't, that means he hasn't figured out the game in "over three years".

:Smile_facepalm:

Why throw back a comment such as that when you have absolutely no idea whatsoever of how I prefer to play this game?

You really are being presumptuous and also blatantly condescending.
Does your "Supertester" badge boost your ego to the extent that you look down your nose at those who use WoWs as nothing more than escapist entertainment? (Which is exactly what it is).
 

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5 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

I understand why CA, CL and DD use HE, but fires shouldnt be so effective in the amount of Damage they do, like it is annoying how a slow BB cant retreat without losing 1/4 health, but then you put youself 18-20km away from the battle, where Bismarck guns are innefective

In my opinion, HE salvos strike more fear and cause panic in bb players than they actually are, then you try to turn away and get heavily punished. Bismarck is the most HE resistant ship at that tier. So think about the other BBs, you are at a better position.

While all those HE flying towards you, they look intimidating, but look carefully at the actual damage they are causing, it's negligible for most cases.

Fires do good amount of damage, but most of the time it's because you put them out at wrong times. If a place on your ship is on fire, no one can set another one there. And fire damage is 100% repairable. Do not put out fire unless you think you won't be lit again soon afterwards.

Since you are very new, it's not expected of you to know all the little things that we consider as rules of engagement, but here are some pointers:

Don't push alone, push in a pack. Make sure enemy can only shoot you from one side, and not both.

Don't rush caps. BB players who charges caps at the start of the game are mostly idiots, there is a time for everything.

Know what you are facing, what they can do to you. It's always more important to know what others can do to you than what you can do to them.

380mm guns come with certain disadvantages. Check armor layout of other ships. You cannot overmatch any armor greater than 26mm. Make sure you are using ammo type correctly.

When you are leading, make sure to run hydro. You can never be torped.

And just remember, enemy bb AP salvos will kill you, not those cruiser HE. You will lose 20k-40k if you give those US or IJN BBs your side. Don't do that.

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3 minutes ago, HenryCrun said:

Why throw back a comment such as that when you have absolutely no idea whatsoever of how I prefer to play this game?

You really are being presumptuous and also blatantly condescending.
Does your "Supertester" badge boost your ego to the extent that you look down your nose at those who use WoWs as nothing more than escapist entertainment? (Which is exactly what it is).
 

Absolutely not. I checked your stats. It has nothing to do with me being a st. I'm still a regular player. And no ego problem here either. Please do not give bullshit suggestions to players.

Younever played Bismarck, you only play coop, and you advocate for sniping BBs. I can read numbers. Thanks for reaching my reply.

Also. Please Read my above post, it can be helpful too 

 

Edited by icy_phoenix
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And if you are just using this game for pass time activity, that's absolutely fine, your above post gave a wrong impression and you were complaining having wrong assumption and understanding of the game. OP here is a new player, and you gave him wrong impressions.

Again, nothing to do with me. And idk why you might think I would have ego issues with you to begin with. Lol.

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Just now, icy_phoenix said:

Absolutely not. I checked your stats. It has nothing to do with me being a st. I'm still a regular player. And no ego problem here either. Please do not give bullshit suggestions to players.

Younever played Bismarck, you only play coop, and you advocate for sniping BBs. I can read numbers. Thanks for reaching my reply.

 

You are assuming....exactly as I stated. You are, in essence, a presumptuous, egotistical cretin.

I also have an account on the NA server (for the same length of time).
I also own, and play, Bismarck there, along with every other BB (including Premiums) between Tiers IV and VIII (inclusive).
I play PvE and PvP on that server.
I will advocate for sniping BBs until the cows come home because that aspect of BB game-play has been removed from WoWs.

Now pull your terrorist balaclava over your head and try not to spend the rest of your life assuming.

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4 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

...why you might think I would have ego issues with you to begin with. Lol.

One does not have "ego issues" with others. One has such issues with themselves.

Edited by HenryCrun
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1 minute ago, HenryCrun said:

You are assuming....exactly as I stated. You are, in essence, a presumptuous, egotistical cretin.

I also have an account on the NA server (for the same length of time).
I also own, and play, Bismarck there, along with every other BB (including Premiums) between Tiers IV and VIII (inclusive).
I play PvE and PvP on that server.
I will advocate for sniping BBs until the cows come home because that aspect of BB game-play has been removed from WoWs.

Now pull your terrorist balaclava over your head and try not to spend the rest of your life assuming.

Well you just proved my point anyway. Have a nice day 

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Whenever you start talking about single class of ship... remember this is TEAM BASED GAME WHICH INCLUDES OTHER 3 CLASSES AS WELL 

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3 hours ago, HenryCrun said:

What the OP has described is really one of the major failings of this game and as one who has always been a BB user I can relate to his frustration.

I say "major failing" because WoWs does not allow us (BB drivers) to play in a fashion which is anywhere realistic.

When I first came into WoWs (over three years back) it was possible for a BB captain to operate in a somewhat realistic fashion in that we could sit out of the range of DD and CA guns and use the advantage of range and hitting-power of the larger guns with which a BB is equipped.

Then everything changed - almost overnight - and WG penalised the BBs by linking scores (points, earnings etc) to distance being travelled during the battle - the "drive forward", in effect.
If the BB was played in a realistic manner then the final points were lower than if the ship was played like a CA by moving forward into the melee.

The BB had become just another CA but with big guns yet without the speed and manouverability of the cruiser.

So now, when I play my battleships, I push towards a base (A, B, C...whatever) and play the thing as I would a cruiser. I also use HE more often than not as I have learned that AP against DDs and CAs is not as efficient as burning the things.

Most of the time I will be destroyed by a mix of HE and torpedoes but I will have probably demolished at least one DD or CA and will also have assisted in the capture of a base.

It goes against the grain and still frustrates me but this is how you need to play your Bismarck.

Ummmmm...

I've been in the game over 3 years, & 7 battles short of the big 10,000......

I've always known that don't play BB's the way you are suggesting, because they ARE NOT cruisers, & you can't really play them that way (well, Scharnhorst, Ishizuchi & a lesser extent, Gneisenau are partially an exception, if you know what you're doing)...

While Bismarck & Tirpitz are brawlers, which excel at close range, they are not designed to push straight in as you suggest, no Battleship is.... A Battleship's role is to provide heavy artillery backup to the DD's & Cruisers, & to help said ships by defending them, & heavy backup artillery to obtain the objective, & also to help tank damage while the smaller ships complete objective, or help your own defence by attacking the enemy while they are concentrating on you.

 

That's why you have a larger health pool, to help survive ...  In my BBs, if I'm set on fire with 1, I don't put it out (unless I'm near death)... Because I know I will survive... 2 fires I watch, 3 yes, 4 bloody oath I put them out...

But battleships in the game are not supposed to sit at the back & camp either, & they have never been supposed to... They are hardly ever effective at extreme range anyway (well, not counting Yamato of course)...

So the idea is to support your cruisers & DDs, while THEY push....   Not rush in like an idiot & get burnt to a crisp in the first 3 mins, nor sitting at the back like lord muck & trying to snipe at maximum range.....

Your DDs & cruisers (& CVs) will more likely help you if you support them, & not consider yourself the most important ship in the game.....

Also remember about dispersion, & German Battleship dispersion isn't that great....

Bismarck & Tirpitz, I reccomend starting the game at 1/2 to 3/4 speed to start with, as they are also more likely to encounter tier 9 & 10 ships,  watch where fleet will need you, then use islands as partial cover until you can see what enemy is up to... (Make good use of the last known position setting on your minimap)

Support DDs capping with your HE (because more than likely a enemy DD will probably be confronting yours), & if you see enemy cruisers get close or you see them supporting their own DDs, then splat them with AP....

If you see enemy BBs, if they are 14klm or less use AP to try & citadel, or greater distance then use HE...

German BBs have turtleback armour inside, so they are difficult to citadel, so use HE more.....

Looking at the tutorial vids that WG has released about game mechanics helps...

BBs have always been slow & methodical.... So patience is needed....

If you want to be faster & in the action more, Play Cruiser or DD....

:Smile_popcorn::Smile_popcorn:

Ordrazz

 

Edited by Ordrazz
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9 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

I recently unlocked my Bismarck, and i am quite new to the game, but all the time i will keep trying to play my bismarck like my Gneisenau by playing aggresivley and using my 15 inch guns to pen CA and BB. But in my Bismarck, i keep running into CL and CA that spam HE, and when i fire back, all i get are 1-2 pens and overpens. They always set fire to me and i wait till i get distance to use damage repair and fire control. I really don’t understand what i am doing wrong in my bismarck, and could reslly do with some help.

 

 

 

Thanks for helping and reading.

 

 

 

Hi mate. There's a lot of information in this thread for you to digest.

I just want to say two things.

1. I love my Bismarck (and indeed any secondary strong ship!)

2. If I am playing ANY ship with a repair party, I pretty much ignore the first fire. I let it burn. Especially if it's early game and/or I am near full health. It can take nerves of steel sometimes. Sometimes I will ignore 2 fires. As has been said above, if you aren't in the final encounter of the battle, you may get a breather later to put out fires and use repair party. If you are running Adrenaline Rush, the loss of hit points will come back to you in a small reload boost - ie DPS boost. Fire damage is repairable. Fire damage is not the end of the world.

This is only one thing to know. It's not the be-all and end-all of Bismarck or Battleship advice.

Good luck finding what works for you!

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3 hours ago, HenryCrun said:

So now, when I play my battleships, I push towards a base (A, B, C...whatever) and play the thing as I would a cruiser. I also use HE more often than not as I have learned that AP against DDs and CAs is not as efficient as burning the things.

I wouldn't group all battleships into one play style.

I can occasionally do a brawl push in my Tirpitz or Bismarck, perhaps any number of German BBs but I would not do it in my Iowa for example and definitely not alone - I need to observe and communicate with my team for this to work.

There is not a universal BB style that can be referenced by simply saying "when I play my battleships".

I like my German BBs because secondaries.

I like my US BBs because accurate long range fire.

Horses for courses.

Choosing AP or HE is highly situational.

I often see a cruiser or battleship coming towards me but I may predict it is going to turn. If I have HE loaded, I will press "2" once, HE alpha them and then let the guns cycle on to AP to get some AP hits on their side.

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1 hour ago, icy_phoenix said:

Well you just proved my point anyway. Have a nice day 

why bother posting with him, check his past posts

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1 hour ago, HenryCrun said:

I will advocate for sniping BBs until the cows come home because that aspect of BB game-play has been removed from WoWs.

And that, captains, is how many BBs become a team's dead weights for playing them as they are IRL. Some BBs are like "You must protect me while I stay here at 1/4 speed and do nothing productive for the team".

If the game is even half-realistic then a team should have no more than 2 BBs (if not 1), 3-4 cruisers and the rest are DDs, unlike the 4-5 BBs running amok in most matches right now.

 

5 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

There is not a universal BB style that can be referenced by simply saying "when I play my battleships".

There is one; sniping. And to most BBs in game, also the most ineffective. US and IJN BBs are most likely to be played like that, they need to maintain distance. German BBs, however, have to be closer to the frontline because of their secondary and their inaccurate main guns. I utilize that to benefit from AR.

 

The longer the gun range they have, the more useless the BBs could be. I don't know why a ship like Conqueror has 24km gun range and massive size (larger than Yamato) while having less concealment than Henri IV, Mosvka and Hindenburg. It's ridiculous.

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7 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

I understand why CA, CL and DD use HE, but fires shouldnt be so effective in the amount of Damage they do

I agree that fire damage can be very annoying, especially when time after time the one HE shell from a salvo that hits your funnel will set you on fire.... again. :Smile-angry: Don't run ahead without support. Don't get isolated and put yourself in a position where you are inviting the enemy to HE spam you. HE spamming ships are generally not BBs (except for RN BB :Smile_facepalm:) so having team mates with you who can fire back usually makes the HE spammers retreat. Being isolated or pushing alone in a BB is certain death.

 

In reality fire is the single most dangerous thing to a ship at sea. Many times more so to a warship that has ammunition magazines for main guns, secondaries, AA guns and torpedoes.

If you are pushing for more realism then there should be a detonation chance for any fire that has not been extinguished after a certain time. Uncontained fires have been responsible for the loss of many ships.

If you are advocating more arcade style game play and that fires should do minimal damage and be easier to extinguish, then that is greatly hurting the effectiveness of DD and Cruisers against BB.

 

WOWS is a game and while it incorporates many real life concepts relating to warships and fighting at sea, it has to make these work from a gameplay and game mechanic standpoint also. There are 4 different classes of warship and when you play them, each one has to make you feel that you are able to contribute to your team during the battle. If HE fire chance and fire damage were nerfed, it might make BBs happy but cruisers and DDs would greatly suffer in their effectiveness.

I am definitely not saying it is all perfect but it is what we have. 

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10 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

I recently unlocked my Bismarck, and i am quite new to the game, but all the time i will keep trying to play my bismarck like my Gneisenau by playing aggresivley and using my 15 inch guns to pen CA and BB. But in my Bismarck, i keep running into CL and CA that spam HE, and when i fire back, all i get are 1-2 pens and overpens. They always set fire to me and i wait till i get distance to use damage repair and fire control. I really don’t understand what i am doing wrong in my bismarck, and could reslly do with some help.

 

Thanks for helping and reading.

 

see the thing with BBs, and German BBs in particular is that players get way too scared of fires than they should. for the most part the german BBs have pretty good HE resistance and only eat a ton of HE alpha damage when facing RNBB's HE and ships that took IFHE just to screw with you. 

the most effective tactic to counter fires is to always have a backup route and to spread out your heals and repairs, for one fire, it's advisable to let it burn if you know you cant disengage, and repair your fire on the 2nd, and after that if you get set on fire again then pop your heal. so the actual damage they deal to you is spread out and you can use this opportunity  to disengage. 

as for having a backup route... that comes with experience and more knowledge of the maps/ships you are on the same team with. it could be anything from a convenient island you can get behind if things get harry, a nearby DD you can ask for smoke from, or even just controlling your engagement distance to a reasonable level (this does not mean sniping)  , there are a fair number of CCs with you-tube guides that you can go check out if you want a better picture, it's certainly easier to understand than reading our shitposts here lol

 

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Just now, HobartAWD said:

I agree that fire damage can be very annoying, especially when time after time the one HE shell from a salvo that hits your funnel will set you on fire.... again. :Smile-angry: Don't run ahead without support. Don't get isolated and put yourself in a position where you are inviting the enemy to HE spam you. HE spamming ships are generally not BBs (except for RN BB :Smile_facepalm:) so having team mates with you who can fire back usually makes the HE spammers retreat. Being isolated or pushing alone in a BB is certain death.

 

In reality fire is the single most dangerous thing to a ship at sea. Many times more so to a warship that has ammunition magazines for main guns, secondaries, AA guns and torpedoes.

If you are pushing for more realism then there should be a detonation chance for any fire that has not been extinguished after a certain time. Uncontained fires have been responsible for the loss of many ships.

If you are advocating more arcade style game play and that fires should do minimal damage and be easier to extinguish, then that is greatly hurting the effectiveness of DD and Cruisers against BB.

 

WOWS is a game and while it incorporates many real life concepts relating to warships and fighting at sea, it has to make these work from a gameplay and game mechanic standpoint also. There are 4 different classes of warship and when you play them, each one has to make you feel that you are able to contribute to your team during the battle. If HE fire chance and fire damage were nerfed, it might make BBs happy but cruisers and DDs would greatly suffer in their effectiveness.

I am definitely not saying it is all perfect but it is what we have. 

double doublepost lol

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