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Paladinum

German BB split proposal

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Yes, it is. Commemorating the release of Prinz Eitel Friedrich, this is my take on the (inevitable) German BB split. This split is a "when" and not an "if". I just don't care when.

I’ll go through the possible setups of the 2 lines first, then the stats of the ships down below.
I’m not going through AA for the ships, if anything, I would just compare the AA of the ships to the ships that already in the game. Also protection stats for the ships can be changed/adjusted by WG so I would only mention some details.

I put everything in spoilers to avoid unnecessary mouse-scrolling. Just click the ones you want to see. 


Sources:
https://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/index.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://dreadnoughtproject.org/plans/SM_Studienentwurf/
And some other sources include someone I know who is a WW1/2 ship nut.
 

A bit of a disclaimer: the estimated HP, based on the ships’ standard/full displacement, for the ships aren’t 100% accurate (but I did some tests and the results are very close). WarGaming may use different sources for the ships’ displacements. It’s a formula(s) I stole from someone I know and I do not have the permission to give them to anyone else.

 

Setup 1: Old line – All-new line

Spoiler

Main line:
Stays the same.


New line:
III: Von Der Tann (New) 
IV: Moltke (New)
Seydlitz (New) (premium)
V: Derfflinger (New)
VI: Mackensen (New)
Ersatz Yorck (New) (prem?)
VII: O-class (New) (prem)
GK4541 (New)
Ersatz Yorck (New) (prem?)
VIII: Bismarck preliminary design, see below
H40A (New) (prem?)
IX: H40B (New)
FdG clone (H39) (prem)
X: H41 (New)


Setup 2:

Spoiler

I prefer and recommend this one.

The 2nd line features the following “flavors”:
+ Less main guns, better accuracy.
+ Generally and slightly stealthier.
+ Lower HP pool.
+ Generally better protection against aircrafts from T8 and up (deck armor).
+ I imagine the 2nd line to be more kiters than brawlers, so consumable-wise I don't think they need Hydro. If they do, they would have the "normal" version of Hydro.

The main line can have a new consumable called "Secondary armament reload booster" in the same slot as Hydro.

Main line (heavy line):
III to VI: the same
VII: GK4541 (New) (prem ?)
Ersatz Yorck (New) (prem?)
VIII: Bismarck
H40A (New) (prem)
IX: H40B (New)
FdG clone (H39) (prem)
X: Großer Kurfürst

 

2nd line (light line):
III: Von Der Tann (New)
IV: Moltke (New)
Seydlitz (New) (prem)
V: Derfflinger (New)
VI: Mackensen (New)
VII: Gneisenau
O-class (prem) (Siegfried, an O-class, is a T9 "cruiser")
VIII: Bismarck preliminary design, see below
IX: FdG
X: H41 (New)

 

THE SHIPS

VON DER TANN

Tier 3 - Light line

Spoiler

Estimated HP: 33.700 (Hull A), 35.700 (Hull B)
Primary armament: 4x2 283 mm guns (same guns as Nassau) .
Secondary armament: 10x1 150 mm and 16x1 88 mm dual-purpose guns.
Protection: 80-250 mm belt and 25 mm torpedo bulge.
Speed: 25 - 27 knots maximum.

 

MOLTKE

Tier 4 - Light line

Spoiler

Estimated HP: 38.000 (Hull A), 40.900 (Hull B).
Primary armament: 5x2 283 mm guns (same guns as Nassau) .
Secondary armament: 12x1 150 mm and 12x1 88 mm dual-purpose guns.
Armor: 80-270 mm belt and 30 mm torpedo bulge.
Speed: 25 - 28 knots.

 

SEYDLITZ

Tier 4 Premium

Spoiler

Estimated HP: 40.400 (Hull A), 44.600 (Hull B).
Primary armament: 5x2 283 mm guns (same guns as Nassau) .
Secondary armament: 12x1 150 mm and 12x1 88 mm dual-purpose guns.
Armor: 100-300 mm belt, 50 mm torpedo bulge.
Speed: about 27 knots.

 

DERFFLINGER

Tier 5 - Light line

Spoiler

Estimated HP: 42.300 (Hull A), 47.700 (Hull B).
Primary armament: 4x2 305 mm (same guns as Kaiser/König).
Secondary armament: 12x1 150 mm and 12x1 88 mm dual-purpose guns.
Armor: 100-300 mm belt, 45 mm torpedo bulge.
Speed: about 26 knots.

 

MACKENSEN

Tier 6 - Light line

Spoiler

Please refer to Prinz Eitel Friedrich for more information. Expect Hull B of a tech tree Mackensen to be similar to that ship.
Estimated HP: 47.500 (Hull A), 52.500 (Hull B).
Primary armament: 4x2 350 mm.
Secondary armament: 14x1 150 mm and 8x1 88 mm dual-purpose guns.
Armor: 100-300 mm belt, 45 mm torpedo bulge.
Speed: about 28 knots.

 

ERSATZ YORCK

Tier 6 Premium or Tier 7 Tech tree/Premium - Heavy line
 

Spoiler

Proposed name: Markgraf
Estimated HP: 50.500 (Hull A), 55.700 (Hull B)
Primary armament: 4x2 380 mm.
Secondary armament: 12x1 150 mm and 8x1 88 dual-purpose guns.
Armor: 100-300 mm belt, 45 mm torpedo bulge.
Speed: about 27 knots
Opinions: historically speaking, the German 380 mm guns of the 1910s-1920s era had better reload than being presented in the game (on the Bayern). It was 24s according to navweaps (maybe a bit longer). So, the Ersatz Yorck would be a comfortable enough ship to play at T7 if she has 24-26s reload, as she already has the HP pool fitting a T7 BB. If she has 30-32s reload, then it’s T6. The reload is compensation for the less-than-okay dispersion.

 

O-CLASS

ENTER THE GAME AS TIER IX "CRUISER" (URGH) SIEGFRIED

Tier 7 Premium

Spoiler

“Ohne Panzer Quatsch”

Proposed name: Prinz Heinrich
Estimated HP: 52.200 (based on designed displacement)
Primary armament: 3x2 380 mm (same as Gneisenau).
Secondary armament: 3x2 150 mm and 4x2 105 mm dual-purpose guns.
Torpedo armament: 2x3 533 mm torpedo tubes (same as Gneisenau).
Armor: 190 mm belt with a turtleback.
Speed: 35 knots
Opinions: really fast Gneisenau basically. I put her as a premium because her playstyle wouldn’t fit either line, too fast with too little protection.

 

GROßERKREUZER 4541

Tier 7 Tech tree/Premium - Heavy line

Spoiler

If you can read German, feel free to explore.
http://dreadnoughtproject.org/plans/SM_Studienentwurf/Schnelle_GrosseKampfschiffe_4541_100dpi.jpg
http://dreadnoughtproject.org/plans/SM_Studienentwurf/Zusammenstellung_100dpi.jpg

Proposed name: Kaiserin
Estimated HP: 63.000 (based on the written displacement, "Konstruktion", maybe Hull B).
Primary armament: 4x2 420 mm (old 1910s 420 mm, not the FdG ones).
Secondary armament: (historically) 12x1 150 mm.
Armor: 300 mm main belt, 260 mm citadel, 150 mm casemate, 350/250/150/100 barbette, 50 mm deck armor, 50-60 mm torpedo bulge. Has a turtleback.
Speed: ~28 knots.
Consumables: normal DCP, normal RP.
Opinions: respectable T7 with largest guns for the tier, but doesn’t overmatch any more ship than the 406 mm guns. As for all 1900-1920 German BBs, the secondary armament will be changed if this design is added. This design is a fully-pledged battleship that can go toe-to-toe with something like Nagato and they called this “kreuzer”. Underselling ships much?

If having 420 mm guns somehow breaks the line, GK4541 can be substituted with Ersatz Yorck with the better reload, and GK4541 can be a premium instead.

 

HYPOTHETICAL DESIGN FOR TIER 8

Tier 8 - Light line

Spoiler

Historically, this should be a design the German made between Gneisenau and Bismarck-class. Fingers crossed for that. Alternatively a fictional design based on Bismarck would also work.
Proposed name: Prinzregent Luitpold
Estimated HP: about the same as Bismarck.
(Proposed) Primary armament: 3x3 350/380 mm (26/30 seconds reload) -OR- 4x2 350/380 mm.
Secondary armament: 6x2 150 mm and 8x2 105 mm dual-purpose guns. Or something like Hull B Gneisenau’s uniform secondary suite, consisting of only twin 128 mm DP guns.
Armor: same as Bismarck.
Speed: 28 - 30 knots.
Consumables: normal DCP, normal RP.
Opinions: simply put, a slightly lighter Bismarck with a different armament setup. WG can have some liberty here and model the ship with less vertical armor for more horizontal (deck) armor.

 

H40A

Tier 8/9 Premium

Spoiler

Proposed name: Ulrich von Hutten
Estimated HP: 76.000-78.000 (based on designed displacement)
Primary armament: 3x2 420 mm guns.
Secondary armament: 6x2 150 mm amd 8x2 105 mm dual-purpose guns.
Torpedoes: 2x3 533 torpedo tubes, as of most H-classes. However, WG didn’t add torps on FdG (H39).
Armor: 220-300 mm armored belt with turtleback and 120+ mm deck armor.
Speed: 28 – 32 knots.
Opinions: The reason why I put this ship at T8 (and premium) is because the underwhelming guns (worse DPS than Gneisenau – the BB with the lowest DPS of T7) will compensate for the massive HP pool. German version of HMS Vanguard, only much, much worse. If WG have the audacity to put Musashi in T9, they can put this design in T8. Even easier to balance.
Putting the ship as a Premium also allows her to have any gimmick possible without breaking the tech tree. If WG want this to be a T9, they can, but that will require a lot of gimmicks to do so (Main Battery Reload Booster and British Heal come to mind), therefore I put this ship at a more “comfortable” tier. With that said, I suppose the ship can have a secondary gun refit similar to Gneisenau Hull B, which replaces all secondary guns with uniform twin 128 mm turrets. This will increase the DPS of the secondary guns and thus would help the ship utilize the massive HP pool to compensate for the lack of primary firepower. This is not necessary of course.

 

H40B

Tier 9 - Heavy line

Spoiler

Proposed name: Kaiser Wilhelm II
Estimated HP: 86.000 (Hull B, slightly more than FdG – 84.200)
Primary armament: 4x2 406/420 mm, same as FdG.
Secondary armament: 6x2 150 mm and 8x2 105 mm dual-purpose guns.
Armor: 220-300 mm armored belt with turtleback and 120+ mm deck armor.
Speed: 28 - 30 knots.
Consumables: normal DCP, normal RP.
Opinions: Solid T9. Pretty much the same as FdG, but is slightly healthier. Being a design after Bismarck-class, the horizontal protection of this ship would be much better to protect against plunging fires and AP bombs.

 

FREE XP VERSION OF FdG

Tier 9 Premium/Freemium

Spoiler

Proposed name: Götz von Berlichingen
Estimated HP: about the same as Hull B FdG, 84.300
Primary armament: 4x2 420 mm.
Speed: 30 knots.
Consumables: normal DCP, normal RP. No Hydro.
Opinions: I can’t really think of any gimmick beside adding 2x4 torpedo tubes on this ship in exchange of no Hydroascoustic consumable, like Bismarck-Tirpitz pair. If not, I’m thinking of a reload or accuracy gimmick. Reload to 26 seconds or much better dispersion and sigma. Or a secondary setup and range from GK, 6x2 150 mm and 8x2 128 mm DP.

 

H41

Tier 10 - Light line

Spoiler

Proposed name: Kaiser Babarossa
Estimated HP: 90.000-92.400 (designed displacement, possibly Hull A, if T10 ships have Hull A and B)
Primary armament: 4x2 420 mm.
Secondary armament: 6x2 150 mm and 8x2 105 mm dual-purpose guns.
Armor: 220-300 mm belt, 45 mm torpedo belt, 100-200 mm armored deck. According to german-navy.de, the design has better protection against sea mines so I guess better torpedo protection than GK (?).
Speed: 30 knots.
Consumables: normal DCP, normal RP.
Opinions: Good T10. Slightly worse concealment than FdG, and much better than GK. The 105 mm can be replaced with 128 mm ones, to make the secondary setup similar to GK (but not necessary the same range). I’m not against the treatment WG used on GK which is to use triple turrets instead of twin, but to emphasize the “difference” of this ship (and this line) in particular (and to avoid making yet another 4x3 T10 BB), I’d rather see a reload time reduction (25s, down from 29s) with an accuracy buff (1.9 sigma, less dispersion), or just a good reload time reduction (20-21s) without accuracy buff. Also features better protection where the other German BBs lack, namely deck and underwater. Also the armor belt needs to be slightly thicker (320-350 mm).

 

Edited by Paladinum
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And apparently Viribus Unitis is confirmed to be a Pan-EU ship. I found this while I was digging in the game files, trying to mod. The file is "camouflages.xml"

1247839214_paneuconfirmed.JPG.d6c262de2fa5181296d1a7066f56052c.JPG

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11 hours ago, Paladinum said:

And apparently Viribus Unitis is confirmed to be a Pan-EU ship. I found this while I was digging in the game files, trying to mod. The file is "camouflages.xml"

1247839214_paneuconfirmed.JPG.d6c262de2fa5181296d1a7066f56052c.JPG

Someone did mention that in chat ( I think it was on the NA server ) a few days ago.Will be interesting to see what other ships end up there.

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Seems like no one is interested in this split?

 

23 hours ago, BanditSE1977 said:

Will be interesting to see what other ships end up there.

Not enough to be any full line it seems.

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