HMS Vanguard Disappointment

[Ordrazz]

I am also guilty of buying premium ships, so either we need more straight jackets to pass around, or...........

 

 

[Pervis117]

6 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

It is entirely possible that you play late night or super early morning and get a 95% bottom tier match, but overall server data may still show that those tiers get 25% to 30% top tier games which is what they should get.

. 

Super early or super late (i.e low server pop) is exactly when T8s get their best MM (T9s are even more benefited) and the traditionally good mm tier T7s are uptiered the most.

At least thats my experience from playing a lot of games super early and late 😛

[icy_phoenix]

3 minutes ago, Pervis117 said:

Super early or super late (i.e low server pop) is exactly when T8s get their best MM (T9s are even more benefited) and the traditionally good mm tier T7s are uptiered the most.

At least thats my experience from playing a lot of games super early and late 😛

Well, from my experience, that is the time most T10 botters come out (and bad CVs). They drag T8s pretty regularly for me.

[PanzerRunner]

On 11/17/2018 at 4:27 PM, leerm002 said:

Hey everyone, 

I'm gonna preface this with saying that I haven't played with the HMS Vanguard, nor even faced one on the opposing team...but, from a pure stats perspective (and LWM's small review) I have to say that I was really hoping for more. Right now it seems like a very "meh" sort of ship, and I was hoping for something wonderful. I know, I know, that's on me for getting hopes up and all that...still, I just wanted a good solid high tier British premium. 

Anyone else feel the same way? Maybe there is an actual Vanguard owner or two who can comment with their own experiences? 

Premium ships and tanks are meant to be "Meh" vehicles but make a lot of credits and XP, thats the original WG concept of premium vehicles. I feel Vanguard is great because its not OP nor a powercreep premium.

 

I could be wrong, thats my opinion.

[RalphTheTheatreCat]

I call it the "Tiger effect" (Even the "Yamato effect" in wows)

 

In WOT everyone whined about the TIger 1 as it was balanced in game to play against other T5/6/7 tanks.   In real like its only true enemy was its own reliability and no Sherman or T34 could do anything against it.   Look at the recent Yamato thread we had going here

 

People have a preconceived impression on how a real life vehicle should behave and are always disappointed in game

[PeterMoe1963]

21 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

Despite of what people claim, they get about 25% top tier games which is logical given the MM spread of those tiers and tiers around them. So when someone come up and say I got 10 bottom tier games in a row, as long as he is not showing screenshots of 10 consecutive matches, there is no reason to believe him at all.

4

I don't have screenshots, but I kept an Excel file and noted the game tier and my ship tier. I stopped when I had more than 300 entries. T5 and T8 do *not* get 25% top tier, according to my data. 

All you have is your impression, I guess?

21 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

Realistically speaking, I am sure T8 premiums are best sellers in this game.Just Tirpitz and Atogo combined probably will cover half of all the other premium ship sales. The reason why WG is not doing so is because their overall data does not reflect what people claim. It is entirely possible that you play late night or super early morning and get a 95% bottom tier match, but overall server data may still show that those tiers get 25% to 30% top tier games which is what they should get.

Obviously +1/-1 would be great and previously they also said not enough players to change MM spread, do we have enough playerbase size now to get this? One would assume that WG was able to grow its playerbase, it will be a shame if it is found out that it is shrinking. 

WG won’t sell any T8 premiums to me, at this stage.

The MM spread over 3 tiers is not the issue, the issue is that some tiers (T5, T8) are more often bottom tier than they should be.

Am I correct when I say you don’t have access to WG’s data and WG do not discuss this tier imbalance with you? If yes, all you have to offer is speculation, and I don’t know how that helps.

[icy_phoenix]

5 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

I don't have screenshots, but I kept an Excel file and noted the game tier and my ship tier. I stopped when I had more than 300 entries. T5 and T8 do *not* get 25% top tier, according to my data. 

All you have is your impression, I guess?

What makes you think that we super testers only work on impressions. What you alone get is irrelevant. You are not even 0.001% of the server.

5 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

WG won’t sell any T8 premiums to me, at this stage.

And you think that is a noticeable change.

5 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

Am I correct when I say you don’t have access to WG’s data and WG do not discuss this tier imbalance with you?

Oh you'd be surprised what we discuss and what we don't. What does not help is someone who barely plays pvp collected data for 300 battles. In that case I alone have way more match record than you have and yes, we get that much top tier.

Anyway, seems like you live in a cave. MM related debates and lot of answers were all over the places on reddits and on many other dev q&a sessions. I do not have energy to dig them up for you. I'm sure you can look them up yourselves.

 

And in case you got the wrong impression (which you usually do), I was not defending current MM at all. My stance is neutral. It is not a problem for me for the moment, but it is indeed often a frustrating situation.

[tsuenwan]

21 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

What makes you think that we super testers only work on impressions. What you alone get is irrelevant. You are not even 0.001% of the server. 

 

Technically if the overall distribution are near even from Tie 8-10. Should there be proportional numbers players getting more often top tiered? compare to those that getting bottom tiered more often. 

   

[icy_phoenix]

1 minute ago, tsuenwan said:

Technically if the overall distribution are near even from Tie 8-10. Should there be proportional numbers players getting more often top tiered? compare to those that getting bottom tiered more often. 

   

Statistically T8 should get more bottom tier than lets say T7. Because T10 always pulls -2 and T9 can only be only be middle tier. So they influence T8 MM and tilt it towards bottom tier more. This is why collected data shows that T8 ships usually get around 25% top tier only while some other tiers like T7 is in a really sweet spot of being evenly distributed.

I think we can say that we collect data for every single test ships, and I have been testing for a long time, so yeah, have data over a few thousand matches. But As I said above, one single player is not even 0.0001% of daily playerbase, so over the entire population, the tier spread behave more or less in an expected way.

[PeterMoe1963]

On 11/21/2018 at 8:51 PM, icy_phoenix said:

What makes you think that we super testers only work on impressions. What you alone get is irrelevant. You are not even 0.001% of the server

Well, I put my cards on the table, I have data from over 300 games to back up what I say.

If you have more than your impression, what is it?

 

 

[spixys]

37 minutes ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

Well, I put my cards on the table, I have data from over 300 games to back up what I say.

If you have more than your impression, what is it?

Your cards don't even exist because you don't even have the balls to share and analyze them with your exquisite statistical skills.

Even if you do those stats only represent yourself and not everybody (despite you have all the below 49% little cry babies to support you).

If you think people are talking impression to you now, so far you are doing the same to the others.

[PeterMoe1963]

15 hours ago, spixys said:

Your cards don't even exist because you don't even have the balls to share and analyze them with your exquisite statistical skills.

Even if you do those stats only represent yourself and not everybody (despite you have all the below 49% little cry babies to support you).

If you think people are talking impression to you now, so far you are doing the same to the others.

My cards do exist. No reason to be a dickhead.

 

[PeterMoe1963]

On 11/21/2018 at 8:51 PM, icy_phoenix said:

What makes you think that we super testers only work on impressions. What you alone get is irrelevant. You are not even 0.001% of the server.

Any particular reason why you don't answer my question?

If you have more than your impression, what is it?

[Otago_F111]

  guilty as charged ....  im an idiot having fun too Aex.

[icy_phoenix]

35 minutes ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

Any particular reason why you don't answer my question?

If you have more than your impression, what is it?

Seemed like a.waste of time, that's why.

[Pervis117]

On 11/20/2018 at 5:16 PM, icy_phoenix said:

Well, from my experience, that is the time most T10 botters come out (and bad CVs). They drag T8s pretty regularly for me.

Oh didn't notice this before. 

You're correct about T10 botters and bad CVs at that time but thats not mutually exclusively to my claim.

Late night has a small population of T10 ships large composed of bots and bad cvs but the size is way smaller than prime time T10 population. T8s get uptiered less late night

[Moggytwo]

On 11/24/2018 at 6:54 AM, PeterMoe1963 said:

Any particular reason why you don't answer my question?

If you have more than your impression, what is it?

He's a super tester, he's under NDA, he legally cannot give the information you are asking for, he can only state his opinions on things that are publicly available and currently released.   Any info he might have on the subject you are talking about that WG have provided to him in his capacity as a super tester is clearly something he can't discuss.

I think the main point he is trying to make is irrelevant to all of that - we all know T8 MM is a bit crappy, but your sample size is far too statistically small to be accurate. 

WG no doubt has extremely accurate analytics on the subject, and they are actively trying to improve the situation, as they have just made a change in the last patch, and have stated since then that they want to make further changes.