HMS Vanguard Disappointment

[leerm002]

Hey everyone, 

I'm gonna preface this with saying that I haven't played with the HMS Vanguard, nor even faced one on the opposing team...but, from a pure stats perspective (and LWM's small review) I have to say that I was really hoping for more. Right now it seems like a very "meh" sort of ship, and I was hoping for something wonderful. I know, I know, that's on me for getting hopes up and all that...still, I just wanted a good solid high tier British premium. 

Anyone else feel the same way? Maybe there is an actual Vanguard owner or two who can comment with their own experiences? 

[Aussie_Tigershark]

 

44 minutes ago, leerm002 said:

Hey everyone, 

I'm gonna preface this with saying that I haven't played with the HMS Vanguard, nor even faced one on the opposing team...but, from a pure stats perspective (and LWM's small review) I have to say that I was really hoping for more. Right now it seems like a very "meh" sort of ship, and I was hoping for something wonderful. I know, I know, that's on me for getting hopes up and all that...still, I just wanted a good solid high tier British premium. 

Anyone else feel the same way? Maybe there is an actual Vanguard owner or two who can comment with their own experiences? 

Hi leerm002,

Give it time to be digested. Here is a link to Flamu's review of the Vanguard in its form 3 days ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJN-XfLZscI

It has been improved from the earlier WIP's. Looks ok but has a different play style all of its own.

Hope this restores your faith. 

Cheers

Alex B_T23

 

[leerm002]

Heh, not only did that restore my faith: I actually went out and bought me a Vanguard! 

I'm still learning to use it effectively (it is NOT an easy to use ship) but so far I have to say it has been an interesting experience 🙂 

Thanks mate!

[Aussie_Tigershark]

That's great. Hope you will enjoy for a long time. I will be getting mine this evening when I get back home. A few of the CC's should/will do follow ups later in the the week, this should give you some ideas about its play style.

Good luck mate

[Rina_Pon]

I'm gonna stick with my Warspite.

[dejiko_nyo]

Well, your biggest problem will be you will regularly be uptiered to t10 in your t8.

[th3vikings]

As usual, t8 drop in to face t9, musashi, misery and t10.

Another money grapping from WG. I not going to fall for it.

I going throw my money in some other better games.

[Aussie_Tigershark]

Op's question related to the "Paper" comparison and earlier WiP observations of this ship.

Vanguard now sits comfortably with the other BB's of tier VIII and with her own "Play style".

The link below is Notser's current observations regarding MM and some of his feelings regarding Vanguard. (He has a more detailed review coming in his next video ---- Tomorrow).

The problem with T VIII (and T V) MM is faced by all ships in these tiers and is a different matter from the subject of this thread.

Cheers

Alex B_T23

PS Bought Her. Just the ship.

[Onlinegamer]

here this Vanguard looks interested for you

[leerm002]

I agree that matchmaking is a problem regardless of the ship, and I really would like some kind of improvements on it...

But as for the ship itself: I have to say that so far I am finding it one of the flat out most *interesting* ships I have played. I will say again that it is NOT easy to use, but it does represent a really unique spin on the normal mechanics and even, as far as I know, even represents a fair bit of the direction that BB's went historically (phasing out layers of armor, adding strong AA, making them faster, more nimble, even smaller guns).

I like it 🙂 I still kinda suck with it, but I like it 🙂  

 

[Max_Battle]

8 hours ago, Onlinegamer said:

here this Vanguard looks interested for you

 

[Aussie_Tigershark]

17 hours ago, Onlinegamer said:

here this Vanguard looks interested for you

Ah yeess. The new Vanguard.

She'll look great when they finish her. Three triple sixteen inch gun turrets, heavy secondary's and AA. I do hope they go with  the plain uncapped funnel's. Maybe they should consider an "Atlantic Bow" though. 

[Aussie_Tigershark]

As Notser promised. Here is his review for those who maybe following this thread. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaoC7D3lm7k

Cheer's 

 

[PeterMoe1963]

On 11/17/2018 at 10:27 PM, leerm002 said:

HMS Vanguard

Considering that she is a T8, she will (almost) always play T10 games.

I will certainly not buy any T5 or T8 premiums until the current MM changes.

 

22 hours ago, Bengal_Tiger23 said:

The problem with T VIII (and T V) MM is faced by all ships in these tiers and is a different matter from the subject of this thread.

Yes, true.

But again, as long as T8 is always bottom tier, I'm not gonna buy a T8 premium. Just no fun.

 

[FinbarAu]

It may be right if WG had even given hints of altering the Matchmaking.

However, they haven't.

The current matchmaking was designed and created back when there were too few T10's. Now? Yeah, too many and too much focus on T10.

Which is fine if you play T10 a lot. They have the 'special modules' and so on, but.....I get frustrated .

I prefer T7/8, except T8 is mostly one of the few T8's and mostly T10.

Which wont be changed.

Which is a pity, as having a 2 levels to a match makes more sense to me, now the player base has increased. A flat, 2 tiers of ships. No more T6 getting slaughtered by T8, or T7 by a T9 but more importantly, no more T8 being murdered by T10.

Not so much for the DD's. They stealth Ninja style of play, surprise torps, smoke and gun and so on, uptiers well.

Everything else? Not so much.

The Battle Cruiser style of play is a huge amount of fun. I love my Scharnhorst for a reason. However, Vanguard, while likely even more fun and requiring more skill, suffers from such horrible MM that I can see no point in buying it.

 

[Ordrazz]

3 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

Considering that she is a T8, she will (almost) always play T10 games.

I will certainly not buy any T5 or T8 premiums until the current MM changes.

 

Yes, true.

But again, as long as T8 is always bottom tier, I'm not gonna buy a T8 premium. Just no fun.

 

I don't know about you, but when I play t8, I really enjoy my Tirpitz or Bismarck, even if they get bumped to t10... (Cause Tirpitz sneaky with concealment & torpedoes, hard hitting guns & secondaries, & Bismarck with secondaries & German hydro & hard hitting guns...  & both have turtleback armour....

 

NC - hardly touch the useless inaccurate barge

 

A Hipper = kite like mad

 

Richelieu = good but I keep forgetting NOT to turn broadside

 

No other T8 I can think of that I have... I love lower tiers anyway...

 

Mainly play higher tiers for clan assistance etc because why not?

 

Of course, you are welcome to disagree with me....  & certain members will anyway..... It is a forum after all, where EVERYONE can voice their opinion... & are under no obligation to agree with...

 

Ordrazz

[icy_phoenix]

Main problem with MM I think is people always want to get in a battle and sink everyone, citadel every salvo, set 3 fires etc etc. But the thing is you need to adapt to your roles accordingly. Like when to play aggressively and when to play passively. Yes, continuously being bottom tiered is sometimes a frustrating experience, and you are at certain disadvantage on your own, but not as a team. Since enemy team also has similar ships. Consider when you play carry and you play support on other games like Dota2.

As long as WG does not officially change MM spread, the best advise is to really try to adapt to the playstyle to get less frustrated. Thats the best you can do. Another point, continuous grinding is frustrating regardless of tier or MM placement. You will get bored eventually for playing some ships for 100s of games. That's why always keep a few other ships so that you can get some relaxed and less tensed games.

[leerm002]

Well said Icy_phoenix! 🙂

[PeterMoe1963]

13 hours ago, Ordrazz said:

I don't know about you, but when I play t8, I really enjoy my Tirpitz or Bismarck, even if they get bumped to t10.

Well, I think that especially BB’s don’t up-tier very well. They are often out-gunned, out-ranged and out-run. Bismarck/Tirpitz are hardly ever citadelled by equal and lower tier, but higher tier BB’s can and do citadel them.

My point is not that you cannot have an enjoyable game when bottom tier. It happens often enough that bottom tier ships are in a top spot of XP earners.

My point is that T8 is almost always bottom tier and that’s just not right.

And  as long the MM is like that, I won’t buy T8 premiums.

13 hours ago, Ordrazz said:

Of course, you are welcome to disagree with me

Thank you. I graciously grant you to disagree with me, too.

[PeterMoe1963]

11 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

Main problem with MM I think is people always want to get in a battle and sink everyone, citadel every salvo, set 3 fires etc etc

Well, that’s not my problem and such wrong expectations have nothing to do with MM.

As I said before, T5 and T8 should not be always bottom tier. There should be balance for every ship in regards of top, middle and bottom tier.

11 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

As long as WG does not officially change MM spread, the best advise is to really try to adapt to the playstyle to get less frustrated. Thats the best you can do.

Reinhold Niebuhr said: God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Maybe WG change things if they notice that they sell fewer T5 or T8 premiums?

[icy_phoenix]

6 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

As I said before, T5 and T8 should not be always bottom tier.

Despite of what people claim, they get about 25% top tier games which is logical given the MM spread of those tiers and tiers around them. So when someone come up and say I got 10 bottom tier games in a row, as long as he is not showing screenshots of 10 consecutive matches, there is no reason to believe him at all.

6 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

Maybe WG change things if they notice that they sell fewer T5 or T8 premiums?

Realistically speaking, I am sure T8 premiums are best sellers in this game.Just Tirpitz and Atogo combined probably will cover half of all the other premium ship sales. The reason why WG is not doing so is because their overall data does not reflect what people claim. It is entirely possible that you play late night or super early morning and get a 95% bottom tier match, but overall server data may still show that those tiers get 25% to 30% top tier games which is what they should get.

Obviously +1/-1 would be great and previously they also said not enough players to change MM spread, do we have enough playerbase size now to get this? One would assume that WG was able to grow its playerbase, it will be a shame if it is found out that it is shrinking. 

[Aussie_Tigershark]

2 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

Obviously +1/-1 would be great and previously they also said not enough players to change MM spread, do we have enough playerbase size now to get this? One would assume that WG was able to grow its playerbase, it will be a shame if it is found out that it is shrinking.

icy, If I could give you 10 Thumbs Up for this I would.

WoT Blitz introduced +1/-1 almost 2 years ago. There was all kinds of posts deriding this move. The usual type --- Game waiting time will be to long, Not enough variety ---- The world will end. The sky will fall. etc. etc. Guess what none of that happened. In fact after a short time the player base grew. Complaints about being bottom tiered dropped and by the look when I visit occasionally, all seems to be still going well in that area.

The other MM complaints such as poor team mates and skill level etc .... well, seem's they will always be there.

Cheers mate.

[icy_phoenix]

16 minutes ago, Bengal_Tiger23 said:

WoT Blitz introduced +1/-1 almost 2 years ago. There was all kinds of posts deriding this move. The usual type --- Game waiting time will be to long, Not enough variety ---- The world will end. The sky will fall. etc. etc. Guess what none of that happened. In fact after a short time the player base grew. Complaints about being bottom tiered dropped and by the look when I visit occasionally, all seems to be still going well in that area.

There will always be opposing force to any kind of change. Otherwise it would show that the current system have been a complete failure. MM has all kinds of issues. A lot of them are well worse than being bottom tier. For example, the notorious CV anchoring division placements, DDs arent tier mirrored at all, imbalance of placing ships capable of radar or aa clumped up in one team, mixing up botters with human players... so on and so forth.

The excuse was always "mm will take too long". May be they could do it experimentally for a month and see what happened? But eh I guess we are expecting too much. Gotta add more and more premium ships, eh? Cause that's all playerbase want...

[SlamUez]

Only idiots buy their overpriced pixel boats. 

Lol jean bart $200aud package. Vanguard $110 aud. 

[Aussie_Tigershark]

3 minutes ago, SlamUez said:

Only idiots buy their overpriced pixel boats. 

Lol jean bart $200aud package. Vanguard $110 aud. 

Well, Guilty as charged. But I plead some sanity for picking the $74 dollar Vanguard.

Also guilty of enjoying my "Pixel Ships" Every last one of them. 

Enjoying using them in suitable op's. Guilty

Enjoying them in co-op. Guilty

So now you can put me back in my straight jacket and take me away.

Cheers 

Alex the idiot Bengal Tiger