Why tier 8 often involved in tier 10 matches?

[mr_glitchy_R]

I have Amagi and I often involves in tier 9 or 10 matches. Tier 9 is fine but tier 10? no.

AFAIK, the most common tier 10 BB players are one of those players who always sitting on the back and just yoloing. Is there any tier 10 players who can lead the flank push so that I can support them?

As a battlecruiser, I can't sit on the back and support my teammates. Remember that Amagi have low range guns. Meaning that if I'm detected, I will be overfocused by the enemy with their long sniper mode. Moreover, she's not meant to stop and bow tanking. Remember Musashi? She's quite popular and I can't punish her broadside from long range. Getting closer to her means death.

Also, why MM are not based on real skills? <------(I have asked this for so long and I need honest answer)

 

[Max_Battle]

I don't think yoloing means sitting at the back.

[mr_glitchy_R]

22 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

I don't think yoloing means sitting at the back.

Sorry about that. Because most people out there does. So what is yoloing?

[dejiko_nyo]

If yolo'ing is sitting back and sniping, then I don't know what to say about people that charge in and get their hands dirty trying to win a match.

[dieselhead]

Yoloing is full speed into cap with BB with little or no regard for your ships safety. In T10 given that most cruisers are OP and burn you down in minutes its not wise to rush a flank from the start. Also pushing a flank too soon leaves you open to enemy torp boats.

[Max_Battle]

Yoloing can mean many things. Mostly it means suicide attack with little or no chance of living.

But is epic if you do live.

Like low health DD hides behind island and rushes a BB that comes around corner, hoping to get off full torpedo salvo before death - whoever shoots first probably wins.

YOLO - You Only Live Once.

Usually used as some kind of daft excuse or reason for doing something foolhardy.

[th3vikings]

2 hours ago, mr_glitchy_R said:

I have Amagi and I often involves in tier 9 or 10 matches. Tier 9 is fine but tier 10? no.

AFAIK, the most common tier 10 BB players are one of those players who always sitting on the back and just yoloing. Is there any tier 10 players who can lead the flank push so that I can support them?

As a battlecruiser, I can't sit on the back and support my teammates. Remember that Amagi have low range guns. Meaning that if I'm detected, I will be overfocused by the enemy with their long sniper mode. Moreover, she's not meant to stop and bow tanking. Remember Musashi? She's quite popular and I can't punish her broadside from long range. Getting closer to her means death.

Also, why MM are not based on real skills? <------(I have asked this for so long and I need honest answer)

 

I been asking lot of times too. Why matches are not been arranged in terms of skill? It is always one team is so strong against the other. It basically just steam roll over the other team. Wg do not want players to wait long time to play and also the player base is not enough. So everyone just get dump in with the same tier ship and that it.

[Mechfori]

There's just not enough T10 player online simultaneously to fill the slot I guess and especially T10 DD, CL are lacking compare to CA and BB, yeah when I play T8 , and I play DD, and see a bunch of T9 / T10 cruiser on the other side I am saying ... this is it again

[icy_phoenix]

"MM is fine" and totally "Working as intended".

 

[Grygus_Triss]

2 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

"MM is fine" and totally "Working as intended".

 

Yep, T8 is SUPPOSED to be cannon fodder. That’s why Amagi is fast and has more guns in back. It’s for running away.

[Grygus_Triss]

12 hours ago, mr_glitchy_R said:

I have Amagi and I often involves in tier 9 or 10 matches. Tier 9 is fine but tier 10? no.

AFAIK, the most common tier 10 BB players are one of those players who always sitting on the back and just yoloing. Is there any tier 10 players who can lead the flank push so that I can support them?

 As a battlecruiser, I can't sit on the back and support my teammates. Remember that Amagi have low range guns. Meaning that if I'm detected, I will be overfocused by the enemy with their long sniper mode. Moreover, she's not meant to stop and bow tanking. Remember Musashi? She's quite popular and I can't punish her broadside from long range. Getting closer to her means death.

Also, why MM are not based on real skills? <------(I have asked this for so long and I need honest answer)

 

I remember a battle back when I was grinding Amagi.

It was one of those battles where one team is aggressive and dominant and totally crushes the enemy team. I was on the dominant team. I was bottom tier, and while we won, I was barely able to do any damage, because enemy died too fast.

Even in games where your allies push forward and support, the shorter range and only 4 guns in front can limit you. Amagi works best when kiting.

[PeterMoe1963]

13 hours ago, mr_glitchy_R said:

I have Amagi and I often involves in tier 9 or 10 matches. Tier 9 is fine but tier 10? no.

Well, WoWS will put teams together from 3 tiers and I would be OK with that if there was a balance of bottom, mid or top-tier games. But there isn’t, tiers 5 and 8 seem to draw the short straw far too often and play bottom tier.

To assure that’s not only my impression, I put the data into an Excel spreadsheet and I’m up to over 200 entries. On average I’m two tiers below the top tier, playing T5 and T8 ships, ie (almost) always bottom tier.

This is something WG has to fix.

[spixys]

On 11/8/2018 at 9:31 AM, PeterMoe1963 said:

To assure that’s not only my impression, I put the data into an Excel spreadsheet and I’m up to over 200 entries. On average I’m two tiers below the top tier, playing T5 and T8 ships, ie (almost) always bottom tier.

Not being sarcastic, come up with count of 1,000 battle and we can see, 200 is too small.

My apologies, I looked stupid and I will take back what I had said for statistics.

But still, what I won't take back is about tier 8 MM, it is still a case by case incidence, and as a constant Tier 8 player I don't feel I had met this much tier X matches.

[PeterMoe1963]

21 minutes ago, spixys said:

Not being sarcastic, come up with count of 1,000 battle and we can see, 200 is too small.

So what is the magic thing that happens between 200 and 1000 samples?

You may know more about statistics than I, so please share!

[spixys]

On 11/8/2018 at 10:17 AM, PeterMoe1963 said:

So what is the magic thing that happens between 200 and 1000 samples?

You may know more about statistics than I, so please share!

more data sample = more accurate.

more diversity and less biased.

it's like asking 1000 people for an answer should provide a better direction than asking 200 people only.

Perhaps next 200 games can have a much different outcome than the 200 games you claimed.

More of me being bs, I won't delete it so everyone can see about it.

[Grygus_Triss]

1 hour ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

This is something WG has to fix.

I recall someone mentioning that Arms Race was originally supposed to help T8s by giving the T9 & 10 population another option.

Of course, WG were very unclear about the intent that it was only a ‘trial’ and they implemented it at a time everyone was grinding special equipment modules. Which you could not grind in said battle.

[dejiko_nyo]

1 hour ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

So what is the magic thing that happens between 200 and 1000 samples?

You may know more about statistics than I, so please share!

Nothing. A larger sample size is better but not always necessary. Larger sample sizes evens out variation. That is why you have statistical tests like t-tests to see whether there is any significance. 

Also, you need to take into account more variables like time of day, what day, etc2 if your sample size is smaller. Larger sample sizes tends to even things out although if you selectively select your sample, large sample sizes may be equally useless. Interpreting statistical data is a critical skill that requires you to challenge all the assumptions you make in an attempt to explain your results.

Mind if you share what is your raw data showing at the moment?

FYI, from my current experience, I would agree that T8 has become a punching bag irrespective of coop or random.

[PeterMoe1963]

30 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Also, you need to take into account more variables like time of day, what day, etc2 if your sample size is smaller. Larger sample sizes tends to even things out although if you selectively select your sample, large sample sizes may be equally useless. Interpreting statistical data is a critical skill that requires you to challenge all the assumptions you make in an attempt to explain your results.

Well, you sound like someone who knows what he is talking about.

When the list was short, I saw the “average ship tier vs game tier” jump up and down a bit. Between 50 and 100 the average pretty much became steady.

Time or day is a good point, I didn’t note that down, but it would be evening hours NZ time. I recorded [date] [ship tier] [game tier] [win/loss]

35 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Mind if you share what is your raw data showing at the moment?

Any suggestion how to do that? Too much to post here in text format. I have it in an Excel file. I could email that to you?

[spixys]

4 minutes ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

Any suggestion how to do that? Too much to post here in text format. I have it in an Excel file. I could email that to you? 

You can made dropbox or some storage service on the internet so people can download it, because I think a lot more people are interested to your data.

[dejiko_nyo]

That is why I take the stats wg chucks out with a salt lick. A grain isn't enough. 

When you read research papers, you need to learn how to critique the data.

Also like spixys implied, more peer review of your data is better.

[j0e90]

Okay, you have to look further down the tiers to see why T8 often gets screwed.

When protected MM for T4 was introduced this had a ripple effect. T7 often ends up being top tier, meaning T8 gets pushed up. Along with the variable player pool at T10 T8 often gets the stinky end of the stick.

[tsuenwan]

Talking about statistics, Game MM is actually artificially programed mechanism which can be adjusted and controlled. It is not something occurred in nature with almost indeterminable affecting factors.

200 games are a lot for someone like me to play for at least 2~3 month. And that is a long time for the distribution to even out. 

 

[IJN_Katori]

But that's where the fun begins 

Like Shooting T10 Planes and Yamato 

also Kurfurst and Montana

 

Even Skillakazes with torps and Harugumo spam

 

as well as Musashi Division 

[AxEyBoI]

Matchmaking is always going to Up tier. We all played this game long enough to know its around  50% +2, 30% 0 and 20% -2. Everyday i play i take note of all my games with MM and the players i get matched with and its terrible. All the noobs or low Battle counts on one team and other team is like super strong with 2-3x the Battle Experience. It happens to everyone. Somedays i lose 15-20 in a row other days i win 10-15 games but checking the teams its all unbalanced. They cant manage to balance the game with Win/Loss ratio or Battle Experience. Its tough and frustrating but just keep playing and try to deal with it by trying different styles and approaches. Go into a match when enemy team 2x CV with 18k exp vs your 2x CV with 3k exp, we all know its game over when they sink 5-7 ships on there own. Fun game there.

[icy_phoenix]

It is also affected by the hours you play. You will get dragged to higher tier MM more often when number of players are lower.

Also depends on the class you are playing at a given time. This things are hard to predict. Especially when the battle queue screen shows random or fake counts of ship classes in queue.

Ideally as long as you are 25% to 30% top tier, it's alright. For t8 it's a bit skewed cause, t10 cannot be bottom tier, and t9 can only be one tier lower. Same with t5 and t6, they can't get 2 tier lower ships with them due to mm rules. So these three tiers have increased chance of getting a bottom tier.

As for amagi, most capable t8 battleship for handling t10mm. Has the speed, great armor model, and a lot of guns (highest) among t8 BBs.