Ranked Battles / changes

[Pulveron]

This game of ranked battles T5s is the most unmatched game I have ever played on WoW.  Pitting ships with ranges of 20k plus against those of 16/18k is the most stupid MM I've ever seen.  It's like putting a T5 against a T9.  Most of the teams are destroyed under 6minutes.  It's tanks on water.  The loss win ratio is about 1win to 7/9 team losses.  This is not a competition it's an annihilation (except, it seems for the privileged teams, and there appears to be teams that have the advantage and it can be predicted before the game begins).  What is clear is that the matchmaker is terrible. 

Also, my ships accuracy appears to have been changed - again (and I suspect the moderators will tell me this is not so), as is the strength of the ships.  I've been in this game long enough to know when changes occur.  It's amazing how the same ship on the same angle as mine, firing broadsides with all rounds hitting, my ship is devastated and the enemies remains with little damage (the hit points are similar on both ships). I have tried all kinds of angles, different shells, different distances etc, as we have all been told to do, yet its all wind - it means nothing in the game, especially when your up against superior ships.  Balancing a team with the same ships is one thing, but when you pit inferior ships of the same tier against teams with stats that have better quality ships in every way, its an annihilation not a challenge.  You watch your team try but you know they have no chance of winning, and they are destroyed quickly.  I think WoW could do much better, and I think WoW knows it can. 

[Max_Battle]

Do you mean things like Konig vs Kongo?

That's normal surely?

[Pulveron]

Well, I have to add anyone who plays these ranked battles is a dummy, and I admit to being one having played a number of them.  The matchmaker is the worst its ever been.   

To answer your question Max-Battle - and thanks for it.  Of course, it greatly depends on the players in the team as well, but when you have a team that has ships obviously better in firepower, firing range, and armour, than your own it's a lost cause.  If team A has say 2xKongos, a New York, 2xOKT Revs and the rest destroyers of various classes, against B that has 1x Kongo, 2x OKT Revs, a Konig and 3 destroyers - tell me who do you think will win?  Team A has 3 ships with a range of around 20ks, and 2 powerful close quarter ships, and 2 destroyers.  Team B has 1 ship with a range of at least 20ks and 3 close quarter and the rest destroyers.  In my experience team A would win (as has happened with the game lasting 8 minutes), battling to get close to the other ships.  If this mix was one that was occasional that wouldn't be a problem, but when the mix is consistently mismatched, where the team win is 1/7-9 battles, something is wrong (bearing in mind as a mid/mediocre player some of the fault lies squarely with my play). 

Just as a side-issue.  This is consistent and around each upgrade things change - sometimes you can't put your finger on it until you play a few games then you suddenly realise (as you also look back on replays) what you try for months to get better at, is all brought to nothing because of the changes.  These changes don't appear in the blurbs given about any new change.  I've argued this before and been told that it's not true, when changes are made you are notified about them - but my playing experience tells me otherwise. 

[Max_Battle]

Dunno man. I ranked out in 2 days. Others did it faster.

Other than feeling that cruisers were not useful (YMMV) it just felt like normal small battles with the ships I am used too.

Player skill was the X factor IMO - not ship(im)balance.

[S4pp3R]

Yeah I ranked out in a few hours... 17 games

Range issue isn't an issue, being able to fire at 21km doesn't mean anything if enemy knows how to WASD.

Add to this that the best ships are GC (16km) and Kamikaze (torpboat)...

If you are having an issue with range at T5 then you need to adjust your play-style.

Granted I did mine in GC, however I would have had similar success in Kongo and I don't bother firing at 20km, she's far more effective angled and firing under 16... Which is where the others can range you anyways.

My suggestion is learn to angle and WASD hack and you'll do well in any BB.

[Bex_o7]

On 10/27/2018 at 7:09 PM, Pulveron said:

This game of ranked battles T5s is the most unmatched game I have ever played on WoW.  Pitting ships with ranges of 20k plus against those of 16/18k is the most stupid MM I've ever seen.  It's like putting a T5 against a T9.  Most of the teams are destroyed under 6minutes.  It's tanks on water.  The loss win ratio is about 1win to 7/9 team losses.  This is not a competition it's an annihilation (except, it seems for the privileged teams, and there appears to be teams that have the advantage and it can be predicted before the game begins).  What is clear is that the matchmaker is terrible. 

Also, my ships accuracy appears to have been changed - again (and I suspect the moderators will tell me this is not so), as is the strength of the ships.  I've been in this game long enough to know when changes occur.  It's amazing how the same ship on the same angle as mine, firing broadsides with all rounds hitting, my ship is devastated and the enemies remains with little damage (the hit points are similar on both ships). I have tried all kinds of angles, different shells, different distances etc, as we have all been told to do, yet its all wind - it means nothing in the game, especially when your up against superior ships.  Balancing a team with the same ships is one thing, but when you pit inferior ships of the same tier against teams with stats that have better quality ships in every way, its an annihilation not a challenge.  You watch your team try but you know they have no chance of winning, and they are destroyed quickly.  I think WoW could do much better, and I think WoW knows it can. 

Respectfully, if you're engaging at 20km's, you're doing it wrong. If you're being effectively engaged by someone from 20km's, then you're also doing it wrong.

[Pulveron]

Max-Battle, S4pp3R thanks for your replies.  I would love to connect somehow with you guys to see how you do it.  It does raise the question for me about WoW and how/if they have a hand in individual players games.  sounds conspiratorial and a bit far fetched, but it just doesn't add up.  When I spoke about firing at a range of 21plus ks, what I meant was that those ships with that range tended to make it near impossible to get close to destroy them or to get close to the circles, as the failure of the teams I have been involved in prove. To rank out in 17 hours is amazing, and I'd like to see how that happens especially when in the games I have played most of the ships in the team are destroyed before the game is 2/3rds through.  I have, as I mentioned, tried angels and I've had help from others, but the failure of the teams I have been a part of make doing other than trying to stay afloat impossible.  I stayed for 14 games and lost all but 2 games, making it stay at level 5.  I agree S4pp3R, the Kongo is great under 16/17k, and I do best with that ship.  I am concerned about the discrepancy in games, and it makes me even more suspicious of what is happening to such a great game.  What is a WASD hack?  my ignorance here. 

Bex_o7, you have missed the point of what I was saying.

[S4pp3R]

13 minutes ago, Pulveron said:

Max-Battle, S4pp3R thanks for your replies.  I would love to connect somehow with you guys to see how you do it.  It does raise the question for me about WoW and how/if they have a hand in individual players games.  sounds conspiratorial and a bit far fetched, but it just doesn't add up.  When I spoke about firing at a range of 21plus ks, what I meant was that those ships with that range tended to make it near impossible to get close to destroy them or to get close to the circles, as the failure of the teams I have been involved in prove. To rank out in 17 hours is amazing, and I'd like to see how that happens especially when in the games I have played most of the ships in the team are destroyed before the game is 2/3rds through.  I have, as I mentioned, tried angels and I've had help from others, but the failure of the teams I have been a part of make doing other than trying to stay afloat impossible.  I stayed for 14 games and lost all but 2 games, making it stay at level 5.  I agree S4pp3R, the Kongo is great under 16/17k, and I do best with that ship.  I am concerned about the discrepancy in games, and it makes me even more suspicious of what is happening to such a great game.  What is a WASD hack?  my ignorance here. 

Bex_o7, you have missed the point of what I was saying.

17 games, not hours...

WASD hax refers to adjusting direction and speed at key times, ie when enemy fires at you to make yourself harder to hit, reducing the damage you take. Basically an adjustment to 1/2 speed at the right time can turn losing 50% of your HP into some minor penetration damage or even a bounce. Angling goes hand in hand with this, minimising the citadels you cop.

I didn't find it easy, I carried many games and from my 3 losses, I topped XP twice (meaning I didn't lose a star).

I also picked my time of day optimally for my ship, peak times I found far more Kamikazes (OP torpboat) and greater variety in player skills so I avoided these times.

The greatest three areas for improvement for most players is positioning, situational awareness and aim.

Positioning: knowing when you are in a poor position relative to enemy and your allies.

Situational Awareness: knowing when the enemy will likely have fired torps in your direction or where you will pop out from behind an island and show juicy citadels to an enemy ship.

Aim: knowing how to hit an enemy reliably at any range and where to aim to maximise your damage, ie aiming higher on an angled enemy BB to get reliable penetration damage over waterline bounces.

My advice, look for good guides on YouTube, a good place to start is 'Captains Academy's by iChase.

[Pulveron]

Wow, fast reply.  Have considered all those options.  Have played all those options, which have improved my playing (hence being the last of 2 ships in most games), I'll try a few more options I have been given.  From what I have learnt so far is that it's not really a team game, rather you play individually, and use the other team members to your personal advantage.  Amazing.  Thanks for the fast reply.

[S4pp3R]

52 minutes ago, Pulveron said:

Wow, fast reply.  Have considered all those options.  Have played all those options, which have improved my playing (hence being the last of 2 ships in most games), I'll try a few more options I have been given.  From what I have learnt so far is that it's not really a team game, rather you play individually, and use the other team members to your personal advantage.  Amazing.  Thanks for the fast reply.

If you were in my clan we'd train you up, sorry I don't have time outside of them (and we're full and have a common niche employment).

Goodluck and great attitude, good to see

[Pulveron]

Thank you S4pp3R.  Appreciate your reply.

[Bex_o7]

4 hours ago, Pulveron said:

Bex_o7, you have missed the point of what I was saying.

Unlikely. 

More likely is you have taken personally that which was not intended as such. The fact remains, a Kongo at 20+ km's is almost zero threat if you are positioned correctly and is doing little to help his team in the process. Examine your positioning, not the match making.

[Pulveron]

Your way off beam Bex - please keep out of the discussion.  As for taking things personally, I won't grace your efforts with a comment. 

I'm convinced that the matchmaker needs a lot of work.  Just the last game, 1 of 9, lasted 2.5/3 minutes.  The enemy annihilated our team.  In fact, the team didn't get near to having a game, being destroyed over distances of 17/21k.  I think the advice you guys are giving may not be worth the effort, and is far from the experience of the game.  I'm also convinced that you're contradictory.  As for strategy, it doesn't work in a poor team or when against a superior team.  It's laughable, all the advice, all the strategy, all the tactics, all for naught. 

 

 

[sunlo2013]

Everyone who play this game have to deal with bad MM just as often as you do. Whether it is less powerful ships, poor teammates etc, we all try to do our best to win the game. The fact that some of us can finish rank in 17 games (a little bit more than 3 hours), the difference might just lies on yourself. Yes to be honest, I think you are major part of your problem.

To think maximum firing range determine good BB from the bad? OMG! You need to really learn how the game works.

In T5, 16 km range is more than sufficient, in fact I never fire shots from stealth until I was less than 12-13km range or I was finally spotted. I will get as close as possible to my target before engaging them.

In rank especially, because there are fewer ships, it allows BB to get very close with less risk of cross fire and focus fire. So, the victory usually decided on how well the team can get close enough to support own DD and kill enemy DD. You can not do that from 15km away. I am pretty reliable in hitting DD, but I can only hit DD at less that 10km range reliably. So I always follow my own DD to frontline usually 5~8km behind her and offer my fire support. Of course there also a lot of experience and skills involved to allow me to do this. This is not recommended for everyone, just wanted to point out your idea about gun range is completely absurd.

 

[Pulveron]

sunlo2013 I think you need to look at what I'm saying and try to understand what I'm saying.  Your experience is not mine, and if you believe your so good that's cool - what you are saying is standard play something I'm not talking about.  You're missing the point.  It appears that you guys are so taken up with yourselves you can't see where I am coming from.  But that's also okay, you're obviously a good supporter of WoW and will take offense at what you perceive as threatening the game, and of course, make it out as though it's all my fault.  I'm talking about the matchmaker specifically.  Everything you say about how you play is great, but so are others who do better than you.  It appears that this message board is useless.  I have a query about the matchmaker and I keep getting these dosh replies.  I still haven't heard an answer to why a whole team is annihilated within 3 minutes, and it's not an isolated experience!  As regards gun range being absurd, I think your in fairy land.  You've played over 7000 games, I would have thought you might be the wiser, how wrong am I. 

[Bex_o7]

Pulveron... I'm going to do my best to be polite here... I mean, I nearly sprayed my coffee all over my keyboard when you started on sunlo2013. 😆

There are people in this thread offering you advice who have had demonstrably better success at winning matches. The Match Making is the same for those people as it is for you, yet they prevail where you do not. You need to ask yourself honestly... what do all of my losses or failures have in common? The answer is "You."

Until you can be introspective enough to accept your own shortcomings you're just not going to improve.

 

[S4pp3R]

I have to agree...

MM is the same for everyone, however there is an argument to be made adjusting teams for skill.

The question is how do you do this reliably? I know many players with 'unicum' stats on a ship that essentially just farm damage, not making plays. Whereas I know many folks with only 'decent' stats that play for the team and with other team players can turn the tide.

The other question is how do you adjust for folks with absurd stats due to only divving, as opposed to solo-warriors?

Try and keep it civil, in this forum many folks are ESL (English Second Language) and subsequently can struggle with nuance (subtlety) and the finer points of English. Always assume they've misunderstood and politely correct them instead of going on the attack, which is a good approach regardless.

It is possible to disagree with someone and still have a civil discussion.

[sunlo2013]

3 hours ago, Pulveron said:

sunlo2013 I think you need to look at what I'm saying and try to understand what I'm saying.  Your experience is not mine, and if you believe your so good that's cool - what you are saying is standard play something I'm not talking about.  You're missing the point.  It appears that you guys are so taken up with yourselves you can't see where I am coming from.  But that's also okay, you're obviously a good supporter of WoW and will take offense at what you perceive as threatening the game, and of course, make it out as though it's all my fault.  I'm talking about the matchmaker specifically.  Everything you say about how you play is great, but so are others who do better than you.  It appears that this message board is useless.  I have a query about the matchmaker and I keep getting these dosh replies.  I still haven't heard an answer to why a whole team is annihilated within 3 minutes, and it's not an isolated experience!  As regards gun range being absurd, I think your in fairy land.  You've played over 7000 games, I would have thought you might be the wiser, how wrong am I. 

My point is MM didn't discriminate. I cursed MM every time it give me useless CV or teammates, it happened everyday to me too. So get over it there are no conspiracy against you.

Sometime when rank game finished quickly is just because it is 6 v 6 in a small map, smallest ship number of all game modes. It is just mathematic or science that fewer ship equal to fewer total hp equal to quicker game, So again, there are no conspiracy against you.

If you think that your ship is shit, those gun are different, MM love to pick on you and you might be using different version of game compared to other players, please check your game file integrity.  🤖

[SuddenDeath]

Ranked out last night in my Kamikaze with a swag of kills easy peasy , no long range shootin for me just close in deadly torping & capping/defending

[Pulveron]

You can’t hold back can you Bex? Again, way off beam.  It would be better if you questioned rather than jumping to conclusions.  As for people here threading advice, let’s have a look at it.  The issue is in regards to the matchmaker and ranked battles.  These are a few of the comments so far: ‘the major part of the problem is you’ – that’s not advice that’s finger pointing; ‘you need to learn the game’ – that’s finger pointing not advice; ‘I am pretty reliable’ – don’t see any advice in that; ‘your idea about gun range is absurd’ – that’s not advice either.  Let’s continue: ‘the answer is you,’ – that’s not advice; ‘until your introspective enough....not going to improve’ – that’s anger over spilled coffee.  I don’t see any advice regarding the topics I put up, except for people telling me of their own experiences with the MM, which is okay.

Here’s the kind of conversation I expected: MM is the same for everyone, however there is an argument to be made adjusting teams for skill. The question is how do you do this reliably? I know many players with 'unicum' stats on a ship that essentially just farm damage, not making plays. Whereas I know many folks with only 'decent' stats that play for the team and with other team players can turn the tide. The other question is how do you adjust for folks with absurd stats due to only divving, as opposed to solo-warriors?

Thank you again S4pp3R.  These were my thoughts and to hear someone else say that it would be good if certain aspects of the MM could change, and those changes (team skills) would make a huge difference to the game, its’ great to hear; even though at this time it might not be possible.  I like the game a lot, but when you front up to circumstances that are appear as uneven teams, stronger teams, situations that are the same yet in combat are unequal, the apparent changes that take place altering firepower, range, and armour strength, etc., I would like to know what others think and if they have had the same experiences.  Then I can make the decisions as to whether I’m at fault or not.

Admittedly, my original post had a little angst to it because to see a team annihilated under 3 minutes without really starting off the block, well, I think that we were up against a team far, far superior to ours, and that the MM could have made a better matching of it. 

If this forum cannot handle such questions, as seems the case here, then it really is a useless exercise saying anything more. 

[S4pp3R]

@Pulveron you are by no means innocent of the points you raise but valid points nonetheless.

FYI another good thing to do in communication is recognising your own mistakes, might be worth a try next time as it probably would have defused the situation somewhat.

[Max_Battle]

@Pulveron

I got Top Shot of my recruit course (many years ago).

As I came off the range and the scores were announced, a Major approached me and asked me if I was the recruit who had just got Top Shot.

"Yes sir!" I answered, gleefully expecting praise and honour. (I was on a bit of a high).

"Give me your rifle," he demanded, "It's obviously zeroed in correctly and I'm going for a shoot".

"Oh," I said, somewhat crestfallen but dutifully handed over my weapon none the less.

Later he came back and somewhat disdainfully shoved my SLR back into my chest.

"It doesn't seem to work for me," he said with some disgust.

He got about half my score.

Same equipment, same situation, same rules, same chance.

Different person - different outcome.

[S4pp3R]

21 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

@Pulveron

I got Top Shot of my recruit course (many years ago).

As I came off the range and the scores were announced, a Major approached me and asked me if I was the recruit who had just got Top Shot.

"Yes sir!" I answered, gleefully expecting praise and honour. (I was on a bit of a high).

"Give me your rifle," he demanded, "It's obviously zeroed in correctly and I'm going for a shoot".

"Oh," I said, somewhat crestfallen but dutifully handed over my weapon none the less.

Later he came back and somewhat disdainfully shoved my SLR back into my chest.

"It doesn't seem to work for me," he said with some disgust.

He got about half my score.

Same equipment, same situation, same rules, same chance.

Different person - different outcome.

Hahahahahahahahaha

Zero'd for you... What an idiot!

 

[Max_Battle]

Just now, S4pp3R said:

Hahahahahahahahaha

Zero'd for you... What an idiot!

 

And he was a MAJOR - many more battles than me 😛

 

[S4pp3R]

2 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

And he was a MAJOR - many more battles than me 😛

 

Yeah, it still hasn't changed much... However SSOs are the worst of the lot