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Menevilence

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Hells Bells and a few other explicative words, I'm sick to death of the matching for tier-8s. It's unbelievably biased, lopped sided and the biggest one way street I've ever had the unfortunate coincidence to play on. Every time I take out my teir-8 cruisers, I'm in a teir-10 battle and not just any teir-10s their the biggest mother Fvkers there is in the game. I'm forced to not only play a certain style of play, but I'm also forced to  reduce my influence in the battle. I'm not able to use the ships full potential in these battles. In every battle, you are bound to take a couple of hits,  but in a teir-10 battle,  those couple of hits finishes you off. There's no second chances, there's no healing, no repair, no fighting back and there is never any chance to get a kill...sheeeeeeeeeeeeet a teir=8 cruiser has no chance of surviving if it's hit. I took the Charles Martel today and I really like this ship, but I've been discourage from using it because it only has to get hit with 2 shells from a BB and it's history. Of course this is one end of the scale, the Charles Martel is a very squishy ship and everyone knows this and its why you be sailing along undetected, after just being detected and get smashed by a Yamoto or Republic from 19-20kms out and it's lights out!!! AND

I"m not exaggerating WOWs are "supposed"  to be and are always "proclaiming" that they are "determined" and "prioritising" the battles to be "fairly balanced". What a croc of you know what! Tier-8s should be a separate battle or at least the tiers should be reduced from 2 tier difference down to 1 tier difference. So if you enter battle in a tier-8 ship, the highest tier should be 9 and the lowest tier should be 7. This would go along way to making the battle a fairer place to make a name for yourself. I know from chating with clan mates and other players, tier-8 is a very hard long slog and the fun is definitely been taken out of the game. It shouldn't be like this...hell it should be changed... who's with me? 

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I think the problem in any battle is when the top tiered ships don't pull their weight.

Also, your thread is about to be memed.

Edited by Max_Battle

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I agree that T8 is a bad tier for MMer, she struggles at best when trying to sort out a match when your T8. I believe she defines "fair" as this match your meat for the poor poor T10 BB's that have been struggling in their last couple matches :)

It's rare to see a T8 or T9 top tier game, when I play T8 I expect a heavy T10 match, I prefer cruisers and find that for some reason the T10 BB's just love to shoot at me :) 

The good thing is you don't have to worry about angling, as Newt would say, "it won't make any difference..." "they mostly come at night, mostly..."

The good thing is it doesn't take that long to grind from T8 to T9 if you like the ship it's usually doable even with the pain, sometimes it gets bad and you just go play something else, that's me though.

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I'm glad I'm not alone.  I'm tired of my T7 matching with T9.  In fact in a couple of games my T8 had somehow been matched with T10.  There was no way I could play a good game, with these massive ships destroying me from distances where I couldn't even see some.  In fact, to be honest, it's so common now to be mismatched it's taken away my initial enthusiasm for the game.  It is not uncommon now for my ships to be involved with ships 2 tiers above them, and sometimes with a couple of T3s involved.   

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Example: This loss from a moment ago.

ANY battle when top tiers don't pull their weight is frustrating. That's regardless of whether it is a 5-7 game 6-8 game or any spread of tiers - which is exacerbated by having a 2 tier spread. The problem is that the tier system is not a skill system.

I actually agree with your whole sentiment OP. I agree and have shared your frustration.

I have been lambasted on this forum for promoting a +/-1 tier MM and for agreeing with others who have suggested that a skill tier system would be good.

Neither will happen, even though players like you and me would like to see it.

 

thisloss.jpg

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T8 ships hate T10 matches as much as T6 ships in T8 matches or T7 ships in T9 matches. However, about 80% of matches in a T8 ship is in T10, while T6 and T7 ships don't get bottom-tiered that often, less than 50% of matches to be precise.

Playing a T8 in a T10 match, you don't just get outgunned, you also get outranged. That is, T10 ships have so much excessive gun range and your puny cruiser has like 16 km range and you're forced to come closer. Come closer to what? Being sent back to Port. On certain ships it seems a bit easier than other: my Mogami seems to fare decently enough (but of course, not good) while Edinburgh is the opposite, hug islands or die so fast I didn't even know what the eff happened.

The argument of "git gud" is utterly invalid in this case because it's not just about the player's skill, but about facing ships that you can't possibly fare too well against. It's like trying to fly a WW1 biplanes to fight F14s. Either you're super lucky or super good, you can't have a good game.

 

For your information, on many WoWS streams (and QnA), the request for +1/-1 MM has been brought up and then dismissed so many times, I couldn't believe they actually just wave away such an influential and widely demanded change

Edited by Paladinum

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36 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

T8 ships hate T10 matches as much as T6 ships in T8 matches or T7 ships in T9 matches. However, about 80% of matches in a T8 ship is in T10, while T6 and T7 ships don't get bottom-tiered that often, less than 50% of matches to be precise.

Playing a T8 in a T10 match, you don't just get outgunned, you also get outranged. That is, T10 ships have so much excessive gun range and your puny cruiser has like 16 km range and you're forced to come closer. Come closer to what? Being sent back to Port. On certain ships it seems a bit easier than other: my Mogami seems to fare decently enough (but of course, not good) while Edinburgh is the opposite, hug islands or die so fast I didn't even know what the eff happened.

The argument of "git gud" is utterly invalid in this case because it's not just about the player's skill, but about facing ships that you can't possibly fare too well against. It's like trying to fly a WW1 biplanes to fight F14s. Either you're super lucky or super good, you can't have a good game.

 

For your information, on many WoWS streams (and QnA), the request for +1/-1 MM has been brought up and then dismissed so many times, I couldn't believe they actually just wave away such an influential and widely demanded change

Good points.

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3 hours ago, Menevilence said:

 I took the Charles Martel today and I really like this ship, but I've been discourage from using it because it only has to get hit with 2 shells from a BB and it's history. Of course this is one end of the scale, the Charles Martel is a very squishy ship and everyone knows this and its why you be sailing along undetected, after just being detected and get smashed by a Yamoto or Republic from 19-20kms out and it's lights out!!! AND

 if you are on mogami or hipper its just normal to complain about T10....

BUT HOW THE HELL Charles Martel cannt fight T10? HOW DID YOU GET KILLED from >16km? what you need to do is simpe, BBQ from loooong range and slightly change course with max speed.

 

IF you deal low damage, it mean RNG is badluck+your aiming crap (not 100% your fault)

IF you get lose streak, it mean MM is trolling with noob team (not 100% your fault)

IF YOU GET KILLED THAT IS PURELY YOUR FAULT (except from CV attack)

 

____________________

being T8 cruiser in T10 mean one thing :

>> JUST KEEP FLOAT, better lose the match rather than win or deal massive damage

 

keep this principle and you will gitgud without realizing it......

 

_____________________________________

 I HAVE KIEV AND I LOVE BBQ T10 BB

NO, I DONT WANT TO FIGHT LOWER TIER crap piece of sheet.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Max_Battle said:

I think the problem in any battle is when the top tiered ships don't pull their weight.

Basically this.

When you are bottom-tier, you basically have to play fire support and try not to be the leader of your flank or make too aggressive plays. But the problem is you are playing as a support, so if the top tier ships don't do their job, then there is not much you can do. So frustrating to see top-tier ships hugging the map border or hiding behind islands the whole day and not being useful

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9 hours ago, Akyamarukh said:

:fish_haloween:

u know what I saw a screen shot on FB and . . . thing shall look like this

SPEAKS like a GENIUS but DOES like an IDIOT >> totally MORON :etc_red_button:

Edited by MatterCore

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Is this so bad of a comment so that six clone accounts had to log in to give me 4 boring and 2 bad? How about giving actual responses instead of summoning your clone army to target me?

Spoiler

 

20 hours ago, Paladinum said:

T8 ships hate T10 matches as much as T6 ships in T8 matches or T7 ships in T9 matches. However, about 80% of matches in a T8 ship is in T10, while T6 and T7 ships don't get bottom-tiered that often, less than 50% of matches to be precise.

Playing a T8 in a T10 match, you don't just get outgunned, you also get outranged. That is, T10 ships have so much excessive gun range and your puny cruiser has like 16 km range and you're forced to come closer. Come closer to what? Being sent back to Port. On certain ships it seems a bit easier than other: my Mogami seems to fare decently enough (but of course, not good) while Edinburgh is the opposite, hug islands or die so fast I didn't even know what the eff happened.

The argument of "git gud" is utterly invalid in this case because it's not just about the player's skill, but about facing ships that you can't possibly fare too well against. It's like trying to fly a WW1 biplanes to fight F14s. Either you're super lucky or super good, you can't have a good game.

 

For your information, on many WoWS streams (and QnA), the request for +1/-1 MM has been brought up and then dismissed so many times, I couldn't believe they actually just wave away such an influential and widely demanded change

 

Edited by Paladinum

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On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 12:44 PM, Paladinum said:

Is this so bad of a comment so that six clone accounts had to log in to give me 4 boring and 2 bad? How about giving actual responses instead of summoning your clone army to target me?

 

I could go into the indepth analysis of why T8 matchmaking sucks but it is going to be a waste of my time, and as you said, WG and their fervent supporters are always going to dismiss it with a wave of the hand.

Short point is that T8 gets shafted because they are drafted to fill in the slots in a T10 match so that "there is a minimal queue/waiting time/blahblah". "Unpublished and unverified statistics show that it is working" blahblahblah. WG would rather have a match start with an unbalanced lineup than an incomplete roster in random. The odd exception is in the dead hours where there are insufficient people to do even that.

Unfortunately, you are not going to get very much public sympathy here. I suspect there are a silent majority that feel the same way as we do.

C'est la vie.

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On 10/28/2018 at 2:44 PM, Paladinum said:

Is this so bad of a comment so that six clone accounts had to log in to give me 4 boring and 2 bad? How about giving actual responses instead of summoning your clone army to target me?

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Attack of the clones.

We just need the star wars music now.

giphy.gif

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It's certainly a case of forged by fire. Unfortunately, there is quite a delta between T9 and T10 (except Musashi perhaps and some others). No ships obliterate lower tier cruisers like nasty T10 BBs, and add all the radar ships and stealth DDs with frightening torp walls means T8 is the toughest random tier. oh yeh, and (rare) CVs love you too, as many T10 ships are AA monsters. It's particularly nasty on open maps or BB camp-a-thons.

Too many times have I parked my Baltimore seemingly safely behind an island only to get radared through the island and focused fired from all over the map.

 

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Given the nature of the ladder t8 will tend to be more often up tiered then down.  Two approaches are available level up to t10 as quickly as possible thereby sailing the uber ships or adjust your flag, upgrade , consumables choices to give you the best chance of making a contribution.

I've mostly stopped grinding at t8 because remainder of line is paper.   

My favourite upgrade is rudder shift because i know i am going to receive a lot of targeting.  

And above it all, remember just a game, if not enjoying it, drop to t8 or even better take dog for a walk

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On 10/27/2018 at 6:31 PM, Menevilence said:

Every time I take out my teir-8 cruisers, I'm in a teir-10 battle

Some people reply how to play a bottom tier cruiser – that is not the point of this thread. The point of this thread is that a particular tier should not be bottom tier all (most) of the time.
How currently certain tiers are (almost) always bottom tier cannot be random. I also found that T8 most of the time play T10 games. T5 most of the time play T7 games. Those seem the extreme ones. It almost looks like that WG put 5-6-7 together and 8-9-10, but that cannot be right?
To make sure this is not only my imagination, I have started to put my tier and the game tier into an Excel table. The table now has 200 entries. This clearly shows that T5 and T8 are bottom tier far more often than they should be.
Fair enough, some players have to be bottom tier and I’m not asking to have only ships of the same tier in a match. But for a player to be out-gunned, out-ranged and out-run in 8 or 9 of 10 games is not fun and not fair.
 

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2 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

Some people reply how to play a bottom tier cruiser – that is not the point of this thread. The point of this thread is that a particular tier should not be bottom tier all (most) of the time.

There are three type of people regarding this.

Those who think like you do, that the system should change.

Those who accept that it is how it is, and try to offer help to make the best of it

Sharkbait and his alt accounts.

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On 10/28/2018 at 11:44 AM, Paladinum said:

Is this so bad of a comment so that six clone accounts had to log in to give me 4 boring and 2 bad? How about giving actual responses instead of summoning your clone army to target me?

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

some clarification here :

it was 4 trolling clone like i stated not 6, the other 2 is purely from other member. if i really hate you i can use all 10+other friend account.....not only at dis post, but also all of your 50 post :v

the reason i am not dong it because, you will leave and it wont be much fun. opinion, debate, conflict, or even DRAMA  is always exist.

       but without them we are just silly "YES SIR", and the monotonic idea will be boring.

 

also i am just did what you did, instead giving proper argument.... we can also give reaction... its privilege for everyone

        and if you dont like getting downvoted, simply just dont do it to other .....

just because you feel so veteran 4K battle and i am just look noob 100battle :V

 

everyday i got downvote too, well i dont give sheet..... but i am curious, what will happen if someone else got so much. 

   consider you are lucky, this is the first time I intend to give someone downvoted.

 

judging by your reaction, the impact is so much that i am starting to think those people that randomly get downvoted by random guy that never talk.

    and its funny to think that, why we get "downvote" feature for creating dis.

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3 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

There are three type of people regarding this.

Those who think like you do, that the system should change.

Those who accept that it is how it is, and try to offer help to make the best of it

2

I could now reply, there are there are three types of people:
1. Those how read the OP and reply on topic
2. Those how read the OP and reply off topic,
3. Sharkbait and similar.

But anyway, I don't mind advice on how to play the game better. And you are correct, I think the system should change. Players should be in a balanced number of low, mid or top tier battles.

And this particular aspect would be easy to change. very easy actually. This is not like overcoming the inherent problems all PvP online games share.

Why would you accept that the system remains skewed like it is?

Maybe try to play only T5 and T8 games for some time and maybe you change your mind?


 

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9 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

The point of this thread is that a particular tier should not be bottom tier all (most) of the time.

Good point. Here's the thing: it's unfair how T7 can be top tiered in ~70% of matches while T8 get bottom tiered ~70% of the times. It'd be, at least, more pleasant if T8 get ~40% of matches in T10 matches (instead of ~70%), ~30% in T9 matches and ~30% in T8. And no, T10 matches are not more popular than T7 matches. While some T5 ships can perform decently in a T7 match, the gap of overall power between T8 and T10 ships is much wider, making a T8 ship struggle a whole lot more against T10 ships than a T5 against T7 ships.

There's some more to this: the number of T5/6 ships in a T7/8 matches is equal to the number of T7/8 ships (at least, usually), but the number of T8 ships in a T10 match can be as bad as one per team. One. Sometimes it's one T8 in both teams. How is that fair? Of course a T5/6 ships can be alone in a T7/8 match too, but I've never personally seen that happens, so I may have bias against it, but remember, the power gap exists.

It's already unpleasant to be a T8 in a T10 match, but the team mates throwing the match left and right just makes everything worse. Teamwork, people, do you have it?

 

Game's rigged against T8, I tell ya.

Edited by Paladinum

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On 10/28/2018 at 2:26 AM, MatterCore said:

SPEAKS like a GENIUS but DOES like an IDIOT >> totally MORON :etc_red_button:

Golden statement for people talk about MM when they can't pull games that they are suppose to win.

2 hours ago, Paladinum said:

Game's rigged against T8, I tell ya.

Strange, it never rigged for me, I still get to play top tier as much as I played bottom, perhaps your theory is rigged in the beginning.

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31 minutes ago, spixys said:

Golden statement for people talk about MM when they can't pull games that they are suppose to win.

 

MM is far better than before a lot, no problem with MM

the only problem is people

T8 ships rarely bad  but do they understand the ships which they are playing ? << god know

how about stop run into random battle like an idiot and find solution to play in high tiered battles :cap_book:

find some CC can give tips and trick to fight against them

. . .

many ways . . .

. . .
 

Edited by MatterCore

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Guys, hold your horses.

Devs are not yet able to write a matchmaker algorithm that ensure DD top tier matching, like BB or CA. What you guys are asking for sounds way too harder for them to implement...

May be stop playing and check back in 2020.

😄😄😄

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1 hour ago, icy_phoenix said:

Guys, hold your horses.

Devs are not yet able to write a matchmaker algorithm that ensure DD top tier matching, like BB or CA. What you guys are asking for sounds way too harder for them to implement...

May be stop playing and check back in 2020.

😄😄😄

Before that BB might reign supreme and then Devs can have an excuse to forget about "fixing MM" which isn't rigged to begin with.

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