Stock Bayern Biggest POS In Game

[coldsteelfury]

I got the Bayern and heard what a great ship it was. Some people commented in the forums how well they did even in the stock Bayern.

With the stock Bayern I had a few games where I did ok and did some damage. Not bad. Not great. I think it was because some of the enemy team played overly aggressively and brought their ships within range of my pathetic 15km range guns, so I could punish them without great risk to myself.

Then for the next few days the situation changed and the stock Bayern became the ship from hell to play. The 15km range of the stock hull was utter hell on Earth. It reminded me of the stock Fuso hull and how awful that was.

I'd be in a game and there would always be CVs and my lack of AA would cause me to get slaughtered (even when I was well within my team's section of the map). One of my favourite games is where we had two CVs who were noob. Of course, no air cover. Enemy torp'd our CV to death within first five minutes of the game and then proceeded to make my life hell.

Other memorable experience include being ruthlessly torp'd by enemy DDs within the first five minutes of the game on Hotspot. I conservatively hid behind the big island whilst my team capped. No friendly DDs or CVs were guarding the Western side of the map and next thing I know I eat several deep water torpedos from a Gadjah Maha, who then proceeds to torp numerous other ships before running off into the sunset and capping another one of our starting bases. Like WTF, the game only just started and it normally takes the enemy half the game to work their way around that damn big island! Wonderful stuff, really made me feel good.

And assuming I wasn't torp'd to death, I would be a complete liability to my team in other situations. Even with the engine upgrade to 25 kts, I'd struggle to get into the fight with my crappy 15.1km firing range and no spotter plane. And if I did manage to fire off my guns, I had to be a little bit more aggressive and would be dismantled by enemy CAs and BBs. I get it, the Bayern is a brawler.... but with a crappy 15.1km firing range it doesn't matter how clever you are with using islands for cover to work your way up the map: you simply are forced to get too close to use your guns, or simply end up running after the enemy the entire game before you can't get a shot off because you've got to monitor your approach to avoid YOLO'ing. 

I'm not a great player but even by my standards my games were abysmal. Getting blown up with doing little or no damage and I was playing very carefully and not YOLO'ing. Got to the point where I kinda figured my team would be better off if I went AFK and didn't get sunk (Note: I did not do this, but that's what it felt like). It's the kind of stuff where if you complained on the forums, every man and his dog would abuse you and tell you how great the stock Bayern is and how your lack of success with the stock Bayern proves some kind of congenital mental defect because <quote unicum player or server stat> says stock Bayern is great, ergo it must be you. Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Well I finally, despite all the rage and frustration, managed to unlock the upgraded hull. AA goes from non-existent to very good, maneuverability goes from awful to good, I get some extra health, but most importantly my range gets bumped up to 16km and I score a spotter plane.

The impact was immediate. I went from complete lemming to absolute hero:

OK. I'm sure others have done better, but it's just incredible how much impact the hull upgrade has. For me the ship was an unusable disaster with the stock hull but immediately transformed into an easy-to-understand powerful weapon with the upgraded hull.

(I also am going to go on the record and say the T4 Kaiser is also a big POS vessel. Yes, I know. There are people out there who think the Kaiser is this amazing beast and they've got server stats which prove not only how amazing the ship is to play, but how empirical studies also prove the T4 Kaiser may be linked to an improved recovery rate amongst stage four cancer patients. I don't care. For me, as far as I'm concerned, the T4 Kaiser was a POS. Give me a Nassau, Wyoming, Kawachi, Myogi, or South Carolina... I'll make them work and do ok in them. More than happy to play those ships versus a Kaiser any day of the week. The Kaiser can't brawl up close because it can barely move and attracts torpedos like bees to honey... and at short/medium range it completely and utterly misses at point blank range with maybe one shell hitting or over penetrating? You know that movie scene which George Lucas modified in A New Hope to "show" that Greedo, not Han, shot first? Greedo fires his gun and the laser bolt arcs off at a 45 degree angle mid flight before Han returns fire? That kind of retrospective PC BS which defies the laws of physics? Well that's the Kaiser.)

[Gummiheng]

Stock Hull is never meant to be fun

People say ship is fun normally when they get to the Bhull

Wait till FrieDrich Der Grosse and you get t9 Bayern

 

[coldsteelfury]

6 minutes ago, Gummilicious said:

Stock Hull is never meant to be fun

People say ship is fun normally when they get to the Bhull

Wait till FrieDrich Der Grosse and you get t9 Bayern

 

Agreed. Just surprised no one else complained about the stock hull. People either don't mention the stock hull or brag about how well they did in the stock hull before they got the upgrade.

Made me question my sanity.

[Lowyat]

most stock hulls have half secondary reload time. 

[waichung1823]

I never play battleship with stock hull, the rudder shift is utterly bad and AA mount is bad as well. 

[Dendi_Superman]

14 hours ago, Gummilicious said:

Stock Hull is never meant to be fun

People say ship is fun normally when they get to the Bhull

Wait till FrieDrich Der Grosse and you get t9 Bayern

 

Just got the FDG, and I can confirm

[Darkworld_2015]

Bayern is a good, though I must admit, I skipped the stock hull back then :P

Tier 9 FDG... was one of my most hated ship during grinding, even that time was grinding together with another friend, but I just couldn't make it work. revisited her a few times with different build idea but well, not working too.. 

but not saying that GK is bad, it's worth it to get to tier 10 in German BB line

[BanditSE1977]

Stock hull being a PITA to get through was talked about a bit just after the German BB line launched,haven't seen much about it since then.

 

Don't know if the current PvP meta would allow it ( been maining PvE for a couple of years now),but you used to be able to pick red 2 battleships,sail straight between them and hammer both.Coming out the other side with a good portion of your health left and both enemy BB sunk!

 

 

[icy_phoenix]

Op, You clearly haven't played old stock Fuso. Otherwise you would not be making this post...

😀

[korak324]

All german BB are good, what hurts them the most is their dispersion. 1.8 sigma for all the line is fricking POS. WG should have have atleast buffed the higher tier dispersion. Even a buff to 1.9 sigma will be very helpful.

[Mini_Moonfang]

German BB line is worth grinding but only bismarck and sharnhorst are fun to play at my hands. In this HE spamming meta, reaching late game or fabulous brawling chances are quite rare (you better wish "cyclone coming in = german time"). IJN line is more fun since you can punch others with your big guns no matter whether near or far.

[coldsteelfury]

4 hours ago, Luna_Frost_Moonfung said:

German BB line is worth grinding but only bismarck and sharnhorst are fun to play at my hands. In this HE spamming meta, reaching late game or fabulous brawling chances are quite rare (you better wish "cyclone coming in = german time"). IJN line is more fun since you can punch others with your big guns no matter whether near or far.

Thanks for the tip. You may be right.

I've pretty much grinded the IJN BB line already. Got Bismarck via a previous promotional campaign. Trying to get Gneisenau.

As you say.... just because German BBs are fast brawlers (T7 and above), doesn't mean they always work.

I used to love the IJN BB line because originally they were the big gun battleship line when it was just the Japs and Americans. Not true anymore. IJN BBs have good guns but armor is terrible and then can get punished terribly. With all those cruisers out there with long range HE, IJN BBs require concealment expert to work. Previously this was not the case because IJN BBs outranged everything else (i.e. American ships) and you could stay alive by angling and keeping your distance. Not any more.

[coldsteelfury]

10 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

Op, You clearly haven't played old stock Fuso. Otherwise you would not be making this post...

😀

Hah! 😀

Fuso was a long time ago for me. Back when it was just the Americans and Japanese.

I have a vague recollection of being forced to YOLO in my stock Fuso because the range was something stupid like 12km? I also remember the Japanese BBs having the biggest guns in the game at the time, so dying a million times before eventually shot gunning someone in the face with 12 x 356mm rifles was glorious!

Once I got the range upgrade, I remember one shot deleting ships left, right and centre in my Fuso. She was a killing machine. I remember being very bitter once I got the Nagato... I actually had to learn how to aim and thought that Nagato was broken because I no longer could single handedly Rambo 2 -3 enemy ships anymore and kill them quickly. 😂 No way you can get away with that kind of behaviour these days in Fuso and survive. 

Sadly Fuso is not what she used to be anymore. Players are more sophisticated and there are cruisers who can now hit you with long range HE which makes playing Fuso a floating target in ways she wasn't previously. Previously you could always hang back in an IJN BB and use your superior range to be safe from cruiser HE and delete people at will. Not anymore. 

My Fuso's favourite fish of the day was Kuma. Nowadays Fuso tends to get up tiered, so she no longer has the punch she used to have and is stripped of her "killing machine" status. I find her boring and frustrating to play these days and only bring her out if I'm feeling nostalgic.

[Mini_Moonfang]

19 hours ago, coldsteelfury said:

Thanks for the tip. You may be right.

I've pretty much grinded the IJN BB line already. Got Bismarck via a previous promotional campaign. Trying to get Gneisenau.

As you say.... just because German BBs are fast brawlers (T7 and above), doesn't mean they always work.

I used to love the IJN BB line because originally they were the big gun battleship line when it was just the Japs and Americans. Not true anymore. IJN BBs have good guns but armor is terrible and then can get punished terribly. With all those cruisers out there with long range HE, IJN BBs require concealment expert to work. Previously this was not the case because IJN BBs outranged everything else (i.e. American ships) and you could stay alive by angling and keeping your distance. Not any more.

Gnei got RNG guns which are not accurate even at close range although she has bismarck guns. Better get Scharnhorst since she out-performs Gnei in average random battles (+ she is my farming machine, 500,000 per a match is very common). GLHF!

[mr_glitchy_R]

Almost all stock hull are bad. Very bad. The thing to keep in mind here is, you must collect free exp as much as you can and never ever use them until you reached the next ship to skip the A hull.

[legionary2099]

Always save Free EXP to skip stock hulls on tier 9 ships. YOU DONT WANT TO PLAY TIER 9 SHIP WITH STOCK HULLS !!.

That is a horrible and long and painful grind that you would wish you drop dead twice over.

Tier 9 is the final tier that have a stock forme and is the most punishing tier for that matter. You face tier 10 which is a massive improvement over you almost every match and tier 8 full forme is very strong against your measly slight improvement over them. Not to mention tier 9 10 contain a lot of strong player who will punish any and all mistakes you make.

You want that painful experience to be as short as possible. So heed my advice and save to skip tier 9 module grinds , it will save you some sanity.

[PeterMoe1963]

On 10/26/2018 at 11:59 PM, coldsteelfury said:

I got the Bayern and heard what a great ship it was.

Well, yes, Bayern is a great ship. Fully upgraded and with a 12 or 14 point captain she is a fair bitter better than A hull, obviously.

We have the Halloween op right now. When they bring the next T6 op, just play that and upgrade the ship and see if you like her. Bayern does well in ops.

And if you don't like her, that also fine. You don't have to like a ship because many players say a particular ship is good.

 

[icy_phoenix]

I actually forgot how I did with stock grind on Bayern, but I know I didn't skip anything at all. Stats include my time from full stock grind as well. Surprisingly, this is one of my highest BB main battery accuracy rates. I remember shells going everywhere a lot and not hitting anything but I guess they actually made decent hits.

I'd say, even in stock she is still a lot better than stock New Mex, Fuso, Normandie, and definitely the real POS is the QE. I couldn't even bear to grind QE, finished her in Scenarios.

TBH, all T6 BBs are trash since most of the time you face T8s. Just bite your lips and finish the grind I guess. Gneisenau has even lower firepower than Bayern 😛 Don't hold your hopes too high.

[Lowyat]

35 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

POS is the QE

This i can agree on

[coldsteelfury]

1 hour ago, icy_phoenix said:

TBH, all T6 BBs are trash since most of the time you face T8s. Just bite your lips and finish the grind I guess. Gneisenau has even lower firepower than Bayern 😛 Don't hold your hopes too high.

 

You may be right. For some reason I've suddenly become obsessed with the Gneisenau. I may suck playing her and she may be difficult to play, but I'm really intrigued by her super fast speed and torps. I know I probably won't be able to brawl most games without getting my face ripped off. But there is something pretty attractive about being fast and able to brawl up close and having a broadside of fish at your disposal.

I've got a 10 pt commander already all locked and loaded ready for her. Should be fun!

[EULA_violator]

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 5:59 PM, coldsteelfury said:

I got the Bayern and heard what a great ship it was. Some people commented in the forums how well they did even in the stock Bayern.

With the stock Bayern I had a few games where I did ok and did some damage. Not bad. Not great. I think it was because some of the enemy team played overly aggressively and brought their ships within range of my pathetic 15km range guns, so I could punish them without great risk to myself.

Then for the next few days the situation changed and the stock Bayern became the ship from hell to play. The 15km range of the stock hull was utter hell on Earth. It reminded me of the stock Fuso hull and how awful that was.

I'd be in a game and there would always be CVs and my lack of AA would cause me to get slaughtered (even when I was well within my team's section of the map). One of my favourite games is where we had two CVs who were noob. Of course, no air cover. Enemy torp'd our CV to death within first five minutes of the game and then proceeded to make my life hell.

Other memorable experience include being ruthlessly torp'd by enemy DDs within the first five minutes of the game on Hotspot. I conservatively hid behind the big island whilst my team capped. No friendly DDs or CVs were guarding the Western side of the map and next thing I know I eat several deep water torpedos from a Gadjah Maha, who then proceeds to torp numerous other ships before running off into the sunset and capping another one of our starting bases. Like WTF, the game only just started and it normally takes the enemy half the game to work their way around that damn big island! Wonderful stuff, really made me feel good.

And assuming I wasn't torp'd to death, I would be a complete liability to my team in other situations. Even with the engine upgrade to 25 kts, I'd struggle to get into the fight with my crappy 15.1km firing range and no spotter plane. And if I did manage to fire off my guns, I had to be a little bit more aggressive and would be dismantled by enemy CAs and BBs. I get it, the Bayern is a brawler.... but with a crappy 15.1km firing range it doesn't matter how clever you are with using islands for cover to work your way up the map: you simply are forced to get too close to use your guns, or simply end up running after the enemy the entire game before you can't get a shot off because you've got to monitor your approach to avoid YOLO'ing. 

I'm not a great player but even by my standards my games were abysmal. Getting blown up with doing little or no damage and I was playing very carefully and not YOLO'ing. Got to the point where I kinda figured my team would be better off if I went AFK and didn't get sunk (Note: I did not do this, but that's what it felt like). It's the kind of stuff where if you complained on the forums, every man and his dog would abuse you and tell you how great the stock Bayern is and how your lack of success with the stock Bayern proves some kind of congenital mental defect because <quote unicum player or server stat> says stock Bayern is great, ergo it must be you. Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Well I finally, despite all the rage and frustration, managed to unlock the upgraded hull. AA goes from non-existent to very good, maneuverability goes from awful to good, I get some extra health, but most importantly my range gets bumped up to 16km and I score a spotter plane.

The impact was immediate. I went from complete lemming to absolute hero:

OK. I'm sure others have done better, but it's just incredible how much impact the hull upgrade has. For me the ship was an unusable disaster with the stock hull but immediately transformed into an easy-to-understand powerful weapon with the upgraded hull.

(I also am going to go on the record and say the T4 Kaiser is also a big POS vessel. Yes, I know. There are people out there who think the Kaiser is this amazing beast and they've got server stats which prove not only how amazing the ship is to play, but how empirical studies also prove the T4 Kaiser may be linked to an improved recovery rate amongst stage four cancer patients. I don't care. For me, as far as I'm concerned, the T4 Kaiser was a POS. Give me a Nassau, Wyoming, Kawachi, Myogi, or South Carolina... I'll make them work and do ok in them. More than happy to play those ships versus a Kaiser any day of the week. The Kaiser can't brawl up close because it can barely move and attracts torpedos like bees to honey... and at short/medium range it completely and utterly misses at point blank range with maybe one shell hitting or over penetrating? You know that movie scene which George Lucas modified in A New Hope to "show" that Greedo, not Han, shot first? Greedo fires his gun and the laser bolt arcs off at a 45 degree angle mid flight before Han returns fire? That kind of retrospective PC BS which defies the laws of physics? Well that's the Kaiser.)

Bayern even fully kitted out is still a piece of shit compared to it's peers

[S4pp3R]

I hated my time on Gneis, unlocked Bismarck and then stopped, I'll come back to it at some point.

IMO Gneis should have option for Scharn guns... At least you can hit stuff over 10km.

Enjoy your Bayern time while you can.

[icy_phoenix]

2 hours ago, S4pp3R said:

IMO Gneis should have option for Scharn guns... At least you can hit stuff over 10km.

Cuz why would people buy Scharnhorst otherwise, right?

[PeterMoe1963]

On 10/27/2018 at 12:13 AM, coldsteelfury said:

Agreed. Just surprised no one else complained about the stock hull. People either don't mention the stock hull or brag about how well they did in the stock hull before they got the upgrade.

Made me question my sanity.

Maybe someone else said this already, I didn’t read all posts.

How did you unlock Bayern? Combination of XP and FXP, as soon as you had enough to unlock her?

It is advisable to keep grinding XP until you can unlock the next ship purely with XP. By that time, you should have enough FXP to unlock at least some upgrades.

Many players would have never played the A hull and gone straight to C hull, or at least B hull.

Many players have Bayern for a long time and probably don't remember the ship without upgrades.

[S4pp3R]

2 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

Cuz why would people buy Scharnhorst otherwise, right?

Cause premium...

I hate this 'premiums must be better or different'

I get why but it's silly IMO