Concealment Expert

[FinbarAu]

So, in the developers blog on Facebook, they say that they are trying to standardize the 4pt Captains Skill Concealment Expert.

Rather than different classes having different levels, it's going to be a flat 10% reduction in concealment.

On one hand, that's going to make things interesting. I know, that up until now, I have it on every single captain of 10pts and above. It's such a vital skill.

However, now, it's such a cut back in the concealment of BB's, that it frees up 4pts for things like Fire reduction.

Very interesting.

 

[BanditSE1977]

The post info about this and Hydro changes:

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/172918-dev-blog-hydro-and-concealment-expert-big-change/

 

Quote

Update 0.7.10. Duration of the consumable Hydroacoustic Search.

We've standardised not only the acquisition range of the consumable Hydroacoustic Search in Update 0.7.10 but and duration of these consumable.

Reworked parameters will be as follows:

Standard Hydroacoustic Search consumable: at Tier IV to VII, the acquisition range of ships and torpedoes will be 4 km and 3 km respectively; at Tier VIII to IX, it will be 5 and 3.5 km, respectively, and duration time 100 seconds;

Enhanced (i.e German) Hydroacoustic Search consumable: at Tier IV to VII, the acquisition range of ships and torpedoes will be 5.5 km and 3.75 km, respectively, and duration time 110 seconds; at Tier VIII to IX, it will be 6 and 4 km, respectively, and duration time 120 seconds;

Cooldown 180 and 120 seconds for the Hydroacoustic Search I and Hydroacoustic Search II, respectively.

This changes doesn't affect unique Hydroacoustic Search for researchable British destroyers and Cossack. They remain the same with the following parameters:

Action time of the consumable: 180 seconds;
Reload time: 180 seconds (120 for Premium consumable);
Ship acquisition range: 3 km;
Torpedo acquisition range: 3 km.
This changes doesn't affect unique Hydroacoustic Search for destroyer Haida:

Action time of the consumable: 180 seconds;
Reload time: 180 seconds (120 for Premium consumable);
Ship acquisition range: 3,5 km;
Torpedo acquisition range: 2,5 km.
Please pay attention that some ships after this changes will receive improvements to their characteristics, others will get small debuffs. These changes are not based on the performance of some ships compared to others. It is intended only to standardize the value of the consumable.

We will closely monitor the statistics and, if, as a result of this change, the efficiency of any ships are significantly changed, we will take the necessary measures.

We apologize for the lack of this information in the full patchnotes

 

 

 

ST. Concealment Expert.

Now the bonus granted by this skill will be standardised for all classes and equal 10%.

This change will increase the chance for a destroyer to take evasive action if they meet a cruiser at close range.
Make life easier for cruisers by reducing the stealth bonus granted to Battleships.
Will allow for more variation for specialization by making the skill 'Concealment Expert' less dominant.
Also, this change will remove inconsistencies, such as a ship of an enormous size recieving an greater bonus to it's stealth than that of a smaller ship type.

Keep in mind that these changes are now at the testing stage. We will closely monitor the statistics and, if, as a result of this change, the efficiency of any ships are significantly changed, we will take the necessary measures.

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

 

[Paladinum]

Meanwhile Hindenburg still has larger detection radius than [content removed] , even though [content removed] is a wider, longer and taller ship than Hindenburg. Henri IV is a very long ship, and Mockba is as almost as large as an Iowa.

The question is: how the [content removed] does [content removed] get better concealment than Yamato, while she's as tall and longer than Yamato.

Sources:

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/107820-size-comparison-all-ships-version-15/

 

Hindenburg, Henri IV and Mockba should be stealthier than the stealthiest T10 BB. Period.

Violation Profanity & Inappropriate use of a medical term. Action taken Post edited, user warned.

~Beaufighter

[Grygus_Triss]

I can see the reasons behind this idea, it does make sense.

Unfortunately, I LIKE 13.5km concealment on my Yamato. I also like closing to about 15km or so of enemy ships. So this could make BBs even more likely to hang back, especially with the current HE spam meta and going undetected is the only way of surviving.

*does the calculations* Ok, for Yamato, it may only be about a .5 km increase in detection range.

Of course, WG may want to encourage us to pick other skills, such as AFT, as if they expect us to be fighting aircraft more often, which may be their way of telling us; "we're killing the concealment meta for you big ships, get used to being spotted more from air & sea"

Though I do worry about RN CL's and IJN CA's, who rely a lot on concealment for their survival.

Interesting, and worrisome. Just have to wait and see...

[FinbarAu]

You know, suddenly, the Asashio becomes more relevant, because of clusters of BB's at the back

 

[Rina_Pon]

The captain skill tree is currently broken. CE is so much more important than any other Lvl4 skill that giving it up for IFHE for example means IFHE is, in itself, comes with a huge penalty for any ship that takes it.

The new rules don't actually change things that much, but it's a welcome step in the right direction at least.

The net effect will be to give DDs a little more breathing room from CA/CL and CA/CL a little more breathing room from BBs. Yes, it's 100% a BB nerf. No, I don't think BBs needed to be nerfed, but I do think DDs needed the buff, and in total the buff to DDs will be significant, while the nerf to most BBs will be minor. The BB most effected is the ConKeK, and I doubt there will be many tears shed over that.

So on balance, a minor but welcome change to the game dynamics.

[Thyaliad]

Ouch. This is straight up going to hurt my playstyle. I like using CE on my BBs and utilising islands to sneak in closer and ambush unsuspecting enemies. Same for some of cruisers. Plus I am quite liking my Massachusetts with CE. With AFT + CE + Secondary range upgrade my Secondary range is almost as much as my Concealment, so if a ship spots me chances are it is going to be within my Secondary range.

While I am can see where WG is coming from with this change, I am thinking to may encourage BBs to camp in the back more. But perhaps this can solve the issue of radar having a greater range than some ship's concealment. Will have to see how it goes.

[Max_Battle]

I often wonder why concealment isn't simply size based. I know it becomes a feature of ship "balance"  but this isn't a game that incorporates EW or stealth technology.

I mean if you had a sci-fi game you might argue that a larger capital ship has more room for an advanced sensor suite that both improves detection of enemy ships and confounding of enemy attempts to locate it BUT...

Early to mid 20th century...?

Meh. I don't know.

What does CE mean for a captain anyway?

Does a CE captain always say, "SHHHHHHHHH" whenever he is on the bridge?

I bet crew gets sick of that.

[icy_phoenix]

So now I can free up 4 points from every BBs..

[Max_Battle]

1 minute ago, icy_phoenix said:

So now I can free up 4 points from every BBs..

And swap for RDF?

DD's everywhere howl in pain.

[icy_phoenix]

2 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

And swap for RDF?

DD's everywhere howl in pain.

Umm, nope. I won't take RDF in a BB for random battles. It isn't useful, besides average DD playerbase are so bad that I don't need to find them, they keep screaming "shoot me"!!!

[humusz]

7 hours ago, Max_Battle said:

I mean if you had a sci-fi game you might argue that a larger capital ship has more room for an advanced sensor suite that both improves detection of enemy ships and confounding of enemy attempts to locate it BUT...

Early to mid 20th century...?

Meh. I don't know.

Well, some faction in WW2 employ spesific tactics to evade detection

Japan for example were famous for maintaining strict radio silence. using flag and light signal to manuver around even in complex situation like Night battle. if you dont think its not hard, imagine pilot that doing Combat Air Patrol, find its way to his carrier with Radio Silence imposed on vast seas - that quite hard thing to do

During the Early to mid 20th century, Navies Inteligence track opponent ships movement by listening to Naval radio traffic. with multiple listening outpost its possible to narrow it down into spesific region in the seas, this whats usualy called as Radio Detection Finding IRL. its a proven method of Inteligence gathering.

 Emissions Control (EMCON) is one major part of Signal Inteligence. Most advanced RDF in war help to hunt down U-Boat, as they required to check in every day. RDF equiped escort fleet is advanced enough that it can give accurate bearing of U-boat location, keeping track of them daily. Electronic warfare in WW2 even in infacy was not to be underestimated

[Max_Battle]

19 minutes ago, humusz said:

Well, some faction in WW2 employ spesific tactics to evade detection

Japan for example were famous for maintaining strict radio silence. using flag and light signal to manuver around even in complex situation like Night battle. if you dont think its not hard, imagine pilot that doing Combat Air Patrol, find its way to his carrier with Radio Silence imposed on vast seas - that quite hard thing to do

During the Early to mid 20th century, Navies Inteligence track opponent ships movement by listening to Naval radio traffic. with multiple listening outpost its possible to narrow it down into spesific region in the seas, this whats usualy called as Radio Detection Finding IRL. its a proven method of Inteligence gathering.

 Emissions Control (EMCON) is one major part of Signal Inteligence. Most advanced RDF in war help to hunt down U-Boat, as they required to check in every day. RDF equiped escort fleet is advanced enough that it can give accurate bearing of U-boat location, keeping track of them daily. Electronic warfare in WW2 even in infacy was not to be underestimated

Granted.

But most of the "concealment" in this game is line of sight and simply seeing the mass of a ship.

Whether or not someone is using a radio doesn't affect if you can actually SEE a ship.

[humusz]

10 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

Granted.

But most of the "concealment" in this game is line of sight and simply seeing the mass of a ship.

Whether or not someone is using a radio doesn't affect if you can actually SEE a ship.

well, Then there not much sensor suite like you speak off. since, at 26km with binocular aid you can easily see small fishing boat on horizon let alone aircraft carrier

there nothing shred of RL visibility for sure, no logic, just plain game balanss

 

[Darkworld_2015]

Thanks Humusz for sharing the knowledge in technology of WWII 🙂 Appreciate it.

I actually like this CE changes. DDs still get to keep their concealment advantages, while BBs, well, shouldn't be  able get too stealthy in the first place (cough cough, Conqueror).

I'm just quite pity CA/CL though, especially those with their detection range on the higher side to begin with. 

Another side note is I really don't like "mandatory skills", it really kills variety of gameplay and creativity of the players. And.. frankly to say, CE might still be the must have skill even for BBs after the CE nerf. I had been playing BBs a lot, both with and without CE. It really makes a big different in the possibility in sneaking up to a tactical location without being spotted, either by navigating through a cluster of islands or even in open waters. Without CV in play, CE still important in terms of for players to choose when to disengage, no matter if the detection range reduction is 10% or 14%. 

[Gesterbein]

Hmm time to change CE skill from monty....
i think hybrid secondary and AA build seems insteresting

[Darkworld_2015]

5 minutes ago, Gesterbein said:

Hmm time to change CE skill from monty....
i think hybrid secondary and AA build seems insteresting

Ah, good suggestion.. was thinking of fire prevention initially..

[Max_Battle]

4 hours ago, Darkworld_2015 said:

Another side note is I really don't like "mandatory skills", it really kills variety of gameplay and creativity of the players.

I agree, although so many games I play/have played do seem ending up having a kind of set meta that if you don't use, you just aren't competitive either in a PvP or PvE environment.

I know it's a different kind of game completely - but I enjoy Destiny 2 for this reason.

The background story and setting is terrible - a thematic mess of concepts, morals and ideas that is childish and unsophisticated BUT...

As much as it is a relatively mindless shooter, its a great looking game AND the moment to moment gunplay is heaps of fun.

There are so many weapons and combinations you can use from long ranged snipers to heavy weapons and melee weapons and attacks that can work - you really can choose the style of play that you like from far away to up close and they can all work.

I like games where you can play different things and see other people playing different things.

If I have to learn a meta to enjoy a game I will, but variety is cool too.

[PeterMoe1963]

With the current staged CE there is the strange situation that some BB’s have better concealment than cruisers.

I guess a change in concealment would have a massive impact of rebalancing various ships. Looks like that’s opening up an entire box of cans of worms.

[ArchKongou]

Finally I can save more points on AA build or Secondaries Build.

[icy_phoenix]

Looks like WG's attempts to make legendary mods that negates concealment builds more popular by nerfing concealment skills. 😄

[FinbarAu]

You know, this could all be linked to the new CV re-work.

Suddenly, it becomes far more neccessary to have AFT or Manual FireControl for AA

[ArchKongou]

2 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

Looks like WG's attempts to make legendary mods that negates concealment builds more popular by nerfing concealment skills. 😄

Legendary upgrade is WG most biggest mistake.  Shouldn't come in 1st place.

Oh wait...its a "good moneymaking" marketing. 

[IJN_Katori]

so i guess Yamato with IFHE will be more of a thing now than Yamato CE Build

[humusz]

IFHE, FP and CE were kinda broke the game.

those 3 were staple for many class, and in turn WG balans things based on how good the ships with those skills straped on. those cookie cutter build made things lack variety in build and gameplay