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Double_Helix_DNA

How does one get to targets as a torpedoboat?

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Currently using the T-22 and trying to hit targets with torpedoes. This is not going well since I always get spotted and die fairly quickly.

 

So my questions for the T-22 are;

 

What am I supposed to do in the first 5-10minutes of the match? Scout? Attack? Look for holes in the enemy fleet?

 

I get found by screening DD's quite a lot while trying to get to a BB. How do I get around the screening DD's the enemy fleet has?

 

Cruisers are quite plentiful, but they're incredibly manoueverable. Should I attempt to torpedo one if I can, or do I just run away from them? If I should, how would I land the torpedo hits onto the CL/CA?

 

In the event that I survive for longer than 10 minutes, the enemy fleet is either destroying my team or is almost destroyed by my team. What should I do once there are very few targets left?

 

Do I go to the flank of the enemy fleet or do I go behind them if I want to torpedo their high-value targets?

 

 

 

Edited by Double_Helix_DNA

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21 minutes ago, Double_Helix_DNA said:

Currently using the T-22 and trying to hit targets with torpedoes. This is not going well since I always get spotted and die fairly quickly.

 

So I'm asking on how to survive until I can successfully do a torpedo attack on enemy targets, as well as getting past enemy DD screens in order to succesfully torpedo enemy targets

Try to play defensively rather than offensively. T-22 is more of a cross breed that favour counter more than attacking.

Position yourself where the enemy will over extend if they want to shoot and chase you.

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Spot, spot spot. Dont be afraid to run from a fight, esp if you have 0 backup.

DDs scale up in power the longer they can live.  Patience.

Early game, never push up without some kind of backup, and that is often easier said than done on this server. 

I play most DDs like this.

Early game, spotting.

Mid game try to establish map control. Area denial by torping gaps , that sorta thing.

End game is often when the torp hits come. It really helps getting hits if you can get in a position where they are pushing TO you, and you can kinda kite away. Dont waste your time trying to torp sships that are moving away.

CAVEAT. I am Mr Joe Average stats wise. Any advice should be taken with a grain of salt from my tears of failure, washed down with a cup of hubris.

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The T-22 is mediocre as a DD at the best of time so you are hard pressed to perform well in any encounter.  Don't go alone and don't push too far.  The T-22 is not a dedicated torpedo boat and will generally lose any encounter against any semi competent cruiser captain.

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You have to look at the strengths and weaknesses of each ship before you can work out how to play it.  Strengths are good torps on a decent reload with decent range for the tier, good concealment, and decent guns under 7km.  The weaknesses are terrible gun arcs at range, and the fact that there is a ship that is better than you at any particular task.  It's a general purpose DD with a torp focus.

The other main issue is that T5 MM is terrible, you're often up against T7's, and that tier is a golden one for DD's.  On the bright side, you'll outspot most of the higher tier DD's.

Given your good torp reload don't feel you need to hold onto your torps for a perfect shot.  They'll be reloaded pretty soon.  If you are setting up for a torp shot within the next minute obviously hold them, but apart from that you should be getting them out into likely paths of enemy DD's and cruisers on cooldown.  A torp in it's launcher isn't killing anything (having said that, you need to be in range of a possible enemy ship to bother launching).  Look for common areas that enemy ships like to go and torp those channels, and of course smoked up ships are always good targets.

Now when the battle starts you should be thinking about contesting the cap - but don't be stressed about not getting it.  You should always aim to be alive at the end of the game.  Whenever you enter a cap you should always have an exit route planned.  I can't stress that enough - planning ahead is key.  At any point you may be spotted and engaged, and if you have an island between you and your escape then you just stuffed up and got yourself killed.  Similarly, shallow angles should be used on approach so you minimise the time spent turning if you need to disengage.  If you can't get the cap because you're completely outmatched by the enemy DD's or your team has awful positioning - just let them have it.  You can block it for a while if it's safe.  When a DD gets a cap what the vast majority think is that their job is done and they can go off and do something else.  You're then able to cap it back!

Next point is positioning.  Most importantly, yours in relation to your teams.  If you are way ahead of your team and you engage an enemy DD that is close to its team then you are going to die.  You need to keep constant attention to the minimap and where everyone on your flank is.  Use that as a gauge as to how aggressive you can be.

A natural follow on from that is choosing the engagement - don't engage in a fair fight if you can help it - you want to have the advantage.  That means that your friends should be closer than their friends when you engage.  If the engagement is not in your favour, disengage immediately.  The DD battle is one of constantly feeling out your opponent and trying to outposition them.  If you outspot an enemy, just keeping them spotting while you remain unspotted is enough to win an engagement.  A few hundred metres spotting advantage will enable you to do this if you're careful.

Lastly, know your enemy.  Know the fully concealed detection range of every single DD in your MM range.  Know their torp ranges.  Know their abilities, and their strengths and weaknesses.  Know which ships have hydro and radar, and know what their ranges and durations are!  Assume these abilities are in use unless you know they are not.  Knowledge is the key to success in this game - their is a lot that you need to know, and every bit will help you.

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know your team , and I do not mean them as a ship but how they actually play along .. as a DD player your best defense is not getting spotted. Use your torp defensively also. So many time its not about hitting someone more than denial of certain area or forcing them to turn, to slow down, to back off etc etc ..... remember if you cannot do the damage, then you can create a situation where others can do it. sure I know this really hurts on the credit and score side. One do not earn any exp or credit by doing these right things but this do help win games. ( this is something WG had been all along pretty wrong doing on part towards all the light force ) ..

Ad finally , OK, I know I am going to get flamed for saying this : do not listen to the big guns .. they always want you to be out there spotting, capping get the intel etc etc ... but then they are slow and not up front with you , you get spotted, you die, QUICK !! I mean you should only do your duty of scouting, spotting within a reasonable context and survival noted. capping only if your team ale to keep enemy away. Do not be shy to run .. you are just a DD

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2 hours ago, Mechfori said:

Ad finally , OK, I know I am going to get flamed for saying this : do not listen to the big guns .. they always want you to be out there spotting, capping get the intel etc etc ... but then they are slow and not up front with you , you get spotted, you die, QUICK !! I mean you should only do your duty of scouting, spotting within a reasonable context and survival noted. capping only if your team ale to keep enemy away. Do not be shy to run .. you are just a DD

Not gonna flame you, but this is not true. You do not need them to hold your hands. You misplayed if you get spotted and die quickly. You have to spot and gather intel and cap in a DD, regardless of someone ask you or not.

 

Anyway, on topic, I think I have written a big post about this, but can't find it now. Many above already suggested the main things, just wanna add one more thing. Before torping, you need to notice your target and your friendlies who are engaged. That will give you a fairly good idea about your target's next move. Most of the times it will tell you whether your target is about to turn in or turn away, speed up or slow down within next 30 seconds, etc. Just because your torps reach very far doesn't mean you need to dump them from farthest possible positions. You get as close as possibly without risking your DD.

You need to keep an eye out for enemy mistakes, cause if enemy does not make mistake, torpedoes will never hit unless you yolo rush.

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What am I supposed to do when my team starts losing the match and the enemy DD's are still alive and spotting my torps? T22 guns can't shove other DD's away, and the rotation is fairly low on the boat.

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2 hours ago, Double_Helix_DNA said:

What am I supposed to do when my team starts losing the match and the enemy DD's are still alive and spotting my torps? T22 guns can't shove other DD's away, and the rotation is fairly low on the boat.

Spot enemy ships and hope your team are close enough to focus them down. Gun down low health stragglers. Use smoke as cover.

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On 10/7/2018 at 7:23 PM, Double_Helix_DNA said:

Do I go to the flank of the enemy fleet or do I go behind them if I want to torpedo their high-value targets?

You do see that in low tier games, DD's sneaking behind enemy lines and kill a carrier or BB. I did it in my early days, killed a few carriers like that.

However, often this will get you killed. Even if it doesn't, you are potentially useless for your team, because you are at some far-away corner of the map. Means your team effectively plays with one DD down.

Does this mean you never go behind the enemy? Well, this is war, no rules!

But seriously, spot enemy ships that your team would otherwise not spot, without being spotted. Instead of half the enemy team hitting your flank out of nowhere, spot them early and slow them down with torps. These are match-winning moves.

Cap. A fair few games are won by points, either reaching 1000 or having more points at the end of the 20min. Without capping no points. Prevent the enemy from capping or switching your caps. Often just spotting them and on top firing torpedos from stealth will make  them turn. 

I had a few games with maybe 5k damage, or no damage, but was in the top two or three of the XP earners. The game does reward capping, defending caps, spotting ships and to a lesser degree spotting. But spotting for the team is important to win the game, no matter how much XP you earn.

Have you watched a few DD videos on Youtube? How to drive a DD is hard to describe in words, videos are quite good. And the practice.

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On 10/11/2018 at 5:20 AM, icy_phoenix said:

Not gonna flame you, but this is not true. You do not need them to hold your hands. You misplayed if you get spotted and die quickly. You have to spot and gather intel and cap in a DD, regardless of someone ask you or not.

 

Anyway, on topic, I think I have written a big post about this, but can't find it now. Many above already suggested the main things, just wanna add one more thing. Before torping, you need to notice your target and your friendlies who are engaged. That will give you a fairly good idea about your target's next move. Most of the times it will tell you whether your target is about to turn in or turn away, speed up or slow down within next 30 seconds, etc. Just because your torps reach very far doesn't mean you need to dump them from farthest possible positions. You get as close as possibly without risking your DD.

You need to keep an eye out for enemy mistakes, cause if enemy does not make mistake, torpedoes will never hit unless you yolo rush.

 

But that's exactly what I mean, you go do your duty as a DD to cap, to spot and to scout, but only in a context that you can actually do it .. stay hidden is the key but do know enemy got DD also so its not always that one can be hidden always even play right. Support to up front force whether its DD CL or even CA is a needed action when engaging and these day on the Asian server sadly this is missing all along ... I've been in so many games I've been asked to go do that go do this etc etc when the guns and I mean not just the BB all ran just for cover and way back, way wide, when their priority is not getting spotted, not getting shoot, and if possible in a position that they can instead farm damage and exp .  Support, sorry not seeing any , pushing, no not on the agenda, fighting, what is fighting ... so many time DD is just fire bait .. I know this is not a healthy attitude but  that is what I see in games these days, and now as a DD player .. yeah I go do scouting, spotting, capping but if and only if I know I can survive and any enemy coming In I expect none from the team, and at all cost at best if I can stay hidden .. cause I know the guns will not help. they will not suppress enemy superior frontal force, they will not suppress enemy cruiser fire, and they will not suppress and drive away Radar cause the are too busy staying behind island not getting shoot, and farming their own on enemy slow BB.

As for torp hit, well its like you've stated, so I do not expect them , I use them more for defensive action than offensive cause nowadays instead of guns dealing with guns up front , most DD had to fend for themselves and the best possible one is not getting up front at all and so many time this is also the only option.

Edited by Mechfori

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On 10/11/2018 at 2:01 PM, PeterMoe1963 said:

 ....

I had a few games with maybe 5k damage, or no damage, but was in the top two or three of the XP earners. The game does reward capping, defending caps, spotting ships and to a lesser degree spotting. But spotting for the team is important to win the game, no matter how much XP you earn.

Have you watched a few DD videos on Youtube? How to drive a DD is hard to describe in words, videos are quite good. And the practice.

Indeed, and that is one issue with WG regarding DD on WOWS, DD was suppose to do the dirty frontal work of scouting and spotting but they are now penalized for doing so and not rewarded enough .. so while team player will do it, many just will not; cause the danger of getting kill is too much especially in view of so many radar , enemy DD, and in general guns inability to support in due time and general play style on the Asian server that lack any support to the up front force.

I play DD also, while I do agree that spotting is important to the team, I also held that if the guns do not come up enough to support , then I am not going to risk my life so they can get their shoot. Its reciprocal; yes, indeed, want spotting then support the DD but sadly I am not seeing much of this 

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21 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

Indeed, and that is one issue with WG regarding DD on WOWS, DD was suppose to do the dirty frontal work of scouting and spotting but they are now penalized for doing so and not rewarded enough .. so while team player will do it, many just will not; cause the danger of getting kill is too much especially in view of so many radar ,......

 

Ship_PRSD110_Pr_24_Khabarovsk.png Ship_PRSD210_Grozovoy_pr_40N.png

 

problem solved

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Mechfori dude, if you thought this way, maybe you should not play DD at all. Scouting and spot is very safe job for DD. Contest cap will take a bit little more risk. The riskiest job is to push and take out enemy DD. 

Most of other class only will request you you scout and maybe contest cap if DD is in equal strength on that cap. They will never want to see any friendly DD got kill for nothing. In fact most hated DD is those reckless DD got caught and  killed when contesting cap in a unsafe situation, usually because bad positioning. 

If you have problems with scouting while others farm damage, please for god sake play other classes. 

When I play DD, I never measured my contribution by exp or damage dealt. When I played BB, I would measure my contribution by damaging dealt and number of citadel hits. Every class has it's own metrics of success, and that's why they were expect to do certain job, and for a good reason. As far as, I can see your mentality will hinder your success in DD.

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12 minutes ago, sunlo2013 said:

Mechfori dude, if you thought this way, maybe you should not play DD at all. Scouting and spot is very safe job for DD. Contest cap will take a bit little more risk. The riskiest job is to push and take out enemy DD. 

Most of other class only will request you you scout and maybe contest cap if DD is in equal strength on that cap. They will never want to see any friendly DD got kill for nothing. In fact most hated DD is those reckless DD got caught and  killed when contesting cap in a unsafe situation, usually because bad positioning. 

If you have problems with scouting while others farm damage, please for god sake play other classes. 

When I play DD, I never measured my contribution by exp or damage dealt. When I played BB, I would measure my contribution by damaging dealt and number of citadel hits. Every class has it's own metrics of success, and that's why they were expect to do certain job, and for a good reason. As far as, I can see your mentality will hinder your success in DD.

I think you should rethink your position.

Skill on where to be is a hard earned experience that you would get a good guess after like hundreds of fails , and even then it is not bulletproof.

I have times where being reckless is right and being passive is the wrong way to do it , someone has to bite the bullet for radar to cool down , otherwise they wont even press it.

On some match where dd are very careful and being in the right place , nothing happen , because everyone is in the perfect place to checkmate each other. How do we broke that up ? thats the question. Reckless/ Too passive is something you judge on a case by case thing , there is no group them all.

DD can not be scouting when he isnt sure what support can he get from guys hiding behind island happy firing at BB.

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10 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

DD can not be scouting when he isnt sure what support can he get from guys hiding behind island happy firing at BB.

Do you know what you talking about?

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4 minutes ago, sunlo2013 said:

Do you know what you talking about?

Yes , i mean just like most players need dd and dont trust them to do their job ( like most on forums ) it can go the otherway around. How can i be sure that if i risk myself i will get anything done?

Trust is a two way problem in all games. I can say safely that here in ASIA you really shouldnt trust your teammate to do the right thing. I think that it is much better to elaborate a course of actions should your teammate do something weird. Like always have a way out or plugging the gap or do the job yourself no one else want to do.

This is a random environment after all. ( Although i sound selfish btw ).

Edited by legionary2099

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1 hour ago, sunlo2013 said:

Mechfori dude, if you thought this way, maybe you should not play DD at all. Scouting and spot is very safe job for DD. Contest cap will take a bit little more risk. The riskiest job is to push and take out enemy DD. 

Most of other class only will request you you scout and maybe contest cap if DD is in equal strength on that cap. They will never want to see any friendly DD got kill for nothing. In fact most hated DD is those reckless DD got caught and  killed when contesting cap in a unsafe situation, usually because bad positioning. 

If you have problems with scouting while others farm damage, please for god sake play other classes. 

When I play DD, I never measured my contribution by exp or damage dealt. When I played BB, I would measure my contribution by damaging dealt and number of citadel hits. Every class has it's own metrics of success, and that's why they were expect to do certain job, and for a good reason. As far as, I can see your mentality will hinder your success in DD.


I do not disagree with you on the first count but I disagree with you on the 2nd. Sorry either I am extremely unlucky or whatever I've encounter numerous times CA and BB asking me t do things just so the can benefit disregarding if he situation allows or not. Asking to go cap when all the guns quickly move into hidden position knowing there is enemy guns push to the front already is a common call. As for contribution I am Ok with your saying but that does not mean the game  mechanics agree with you, no damage deal , no credit, no exp that's just how WG means it.

Actually I have no complain about needing to go cap, what I really had against is guns that refuse to help, and refuse to support when needed but yet they want us DD to go do this do that for them .. sorry not going to happen, I got no support from them than they got no support from me why bother spotting or even capping when they will not help, will not support, will not push and worst yet, even when you about to cap, they just ran off never bother to defend the capped area. That's what I see day in day out what guns are doing. I've been in so many games that I had to keep capping the same Area again and again ( record is 5 time )

 

Let's put it this way , they just do not earn it. Yes all classes are expected to do certain job, and yet today the guns only wanting is to farm exp and damage ... anything else, forge it they are not interested, so if they are not then why risk my neck for them ... I will just go cruising with them at the back of the map then ; like I stated before no this is not a healthy attitude I know, but until I see otherwise ... Ever read the novel " the three musketeer " ... the saying - one for all and all for one ... well the guns like the first part and its the DD that's the one but they want nothing of the latter .. so in the end ... well ..

 

Edited by Mechfori

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3 hours ago, Mechfori said:

 

But that's exactly what I mean, you go do your duty as a DD to cap, to spot and to scout, but only in a context that you can actually do it .. stay hidden is the key but do know enemy got DD also so its not always that one can be hidden always even play right. Support to up front force whether its DD CL or even CA is a needed action when engaging and these day on the Asian server sadly this is missing all along ... I've been in so many games I've been asked to go do that go do this etc etc when the guns and I mean not just the BB all ran just for cover and way back, way wide, when their priority is not getting spotted, not getting shoot, and if possible in a position that they can instead farm damage and exp .  Support, sorry not seeing any , pushing, no not on the agenda, fighting, what is fighting ... so many time DD is just fire bait .. I know this is not a healthy attitude but  that is what I see in games these days, and now as a DD player .. yeah I go do scouting, spotting, capping but if and only if I know I can survive and any enemy coming In I expect none from the team, and at all cost at best if I can stay hidden .. cause I know the guns will not help. they will not suppress enemy superior frontal force, they will not suppress enemy cruiser fire, and they will not suppress and drive away Radar cause the are too busy staying behind island not getting shoot, and farming their own on enemy slow BB.

As for torp hit, well its like you've stated, so I do not expect them , I use them more for defensive action than offensive cause nowadays instead of guns dealing with guns up front , most DD had to fend for themselves and the best possible one is not getting up front at all and so many time this is also the only option.

Well you can check my DD stats. I know what I was talking about. I think you still have a lot to learn about how to DD. And blaming the server or the teammates won't take you anywhere.

What me and @sunlo2013 above suggested are from our DD gameplay experience. If we can do it, so should you. Cause we aren't even the best DD players..

This is my new spotting record with a t8 DD in a t10 mm. Full of radars and my team full of snipers.. and CVs too.

spotting_record.thumb.JPG.2228dd5bc35be069daffec2883e34e2a.JPG

Edited by icy_phoenix

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13 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

Well you can check my DD stats. I know what I was talking about. I think you still have a lot to learn about how to DD. And blaming the server or the teammates won't take you anywhere.

What me and @sunlo2013 above suggested are from our DD gameplay experience. If we can do it, so should you. Cause we aren't even the best DD players..

for one thing let me clarify, no I do not blame them .. they are players too .. they are just taking cue from how the game mechanics goes .. and that is not their fault. What I am saying is that I am disappointed with that fact , that, this game mechanic result in people playing in this non co-operativea non team play style and as a class that need the support most ( when its needed ) because of the lack of  armor, HP, and generally ineffective guns against anything ( even fellow DD ) we are pretty much forced to adopt a passive approach .. If we read the update history we will see that WG had keep nerfing DD capacity to play since what 0.5.1  or even earlier , while greatly elevating the capability and capacity of BB, CA, and CL, they fail to keep the DD gameplay worth and effective and to a point where as current status quo goes, its actually kind of disappoint.  Just like CV mechanism need major overhaul, te DD mechanism might need that too.

No I do not blame those player who simply refuse to help, I just refuse to work with them then if I encounter those in a a game I leave them alone, and do my own, if I need to go offense, I go, and if I need to retreat I do too ... but I will not and do not care to bother with them and any request for help will be politely and sternly refused ( like that I stated, they do not support me, I do not support them )

The game mechanics is what really put this into such situation and am not seeing WG doing anything about it and if I am wrong about it , I stand being prepared to be corrected .. as for now I still find playing DD fun and enjoyable ( so long I ignore those guns as such ).

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27 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

The game mechanics is what really put this into such situation and am not seeing WG doing anything about it and if I am wrong about it , I stand being prepared to be corrected .. as for now I still find playing DD fun and enjoyable ( so long I ignore those guns as such ).

That can be a topic to discuss in another thread, this thread is about how to target with torpedoes. Let's not derail the thread anymore than we already have.

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Sure, there however is a bit of truth in the discussion. what really is a torpedo boat ... well all DD carried torp , what made it a torpedo boat is not ow the ship spec goes, but how one go out and play it. Some DD branch pretty muc force the player to focus on torp ( most IJN say ) some allow a bit of leeway ( say some high Tier Soviet / US / German ) some are pretty much  gunboat and gunboat only and torp is just a side show ( most Soviet and plenty of Asian ) ....

In that One must decide what kind of torpedo boat one want to play, even within playing a torpedo boat there can be multiple approach to the play style and with specific sips, might be even very great differences. Torp spread ( do you got 2 or 3 torp launcher, or RN DD who can torp single ) , loading time, concealment all go into the equations and then some more.

To be a torpedo boat pilot its all about calculating the odd and the specifics, learning when to launch and when not to , when to step up to a position and when to rear back and re group, reload. And most of all not to get distracted by friend and foes alike. A lot of the time it might be tempting to stat firing the gun, or go over to a teammate and pair up but that usually put the torpedo boat in a less favorable position . Learning when to group with team and when to lone wolf is a key skill to being a good Torpedo boat DD Pilot

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5 hours ago, legionary2099 said:

Yes , i mean just like most players need dd and dont trust them to do their job ( like most on forums ) it can go the otherway around. How can i be sure that if i risk myself i will get anything done?

Trust is a two way problem in all games. I can say safely that here in ASIA you really shouldnt trust your teammate to do the right thing. I think that it is much better to elaborate a course of actions should your teammate do something weird. Like always have a way out or plugging the gap or do the job yourself no one else want to do.

This is a random environment after all. ( Although i sound selfish btw ).

You don't trust anybody that why as DD player, never go all in, I would never shoot my gun first when I spotted enemies DD not until I saw my team start focusing fire, then I will try to pick the fight at right moment. As I said, damage means nothing to me as a DD, if I can spot the enemies to death without fire a shot I would laugh my ass off.

I think as most people pointed out as a DD you need to always prepared to escape. Always have idea how closer enemies BB and CA are. Try to approach a position as safe as possible, have escape route planned in advance. Always keep count where are radar ships and their distance, if you didn't see one, expect radar ships is just behind the island ready to radar you. Most DD's mistake come from bad positioning and poor situation awareness, aiming and shooting is not as important. However, reading the game and decision making is much more difficult to master compared to other classes. And DD bear tremendous responsibility in controlling objective thus winning the game for the team. 

That's why I didn't touch DD until I reach 3000 games. I am just not confident enough to do well in DD. As I said before, if you don't have the mentality for it, then why not play other class? You can play CA or BB and farm xp while other people spot for you. 

Edited by sunlo2013

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