How much of an improved is Minotaur over Neptune?

[TheCrynek]

I'm fairly close to getting the Minotaur on my other account and wondering how much better than the Neptune is it as my experience with the Neptune has been a mix bag.
I find compared to the Edinburgh that the increase in detection range to be rather annoying and also the ship does not have great firing angles for such a high citadel.
So I want to know how noticeable Minotaur's traits like better concealment and better handling feel compared to the Neptune


 

[legionary2099]

10 minutes ago, TheCrynek said:

I'm fairly close to getting the Minotaur on my other account and wondering how much better than the Neptune is it as my experience with the Neptune has been a mix bag.
I find compared to the Edinburgh that the increase in detection range to be rather annoying and also the ship does not have great firing angles for such a high citadel.
So I want to know how noticeable Minotaur's traits like better concealment and better handling feel compared to the Neptune


 

It is a total improvement. Like 1.5x times better than the Neptune oil can.

Some notable improvements :

You are smaller , sit lower in the water , less likely to eat shots. And also have better camo. You can now stealth torp and stealth radar.

Your batteries have improved firing angles and you lose less DPM when angling , or when your target actively dodge thanks to the 5x2 set up. This is extremely important when sitting in smoke.

You can also quickly re acquire targets when maneuvering thanks to the astounding turret traverse and reload improvement.

Honestly , i hate Neptune with a passion , but absoulutely love the Minotaur , it is just so much more easier to be daring.

[TheCrynek]

1 minute ago, legionary2099 said:

It is a total improvement. Like 1.5x times better than the Neptune oil can.

Some notable improvements :

You are smaller , sit lower in the water , less likely to eat shots. And also have better camo. You can now stealth torp and stealth radar.

Your batteries have improved firing angles and you lose less DPM when angling , or when your target actively dodge thanks to the 5x2 set up. This is extremely important when sitting in smoke.

You can also quickly re acquire targets when maneuvering thanks to the astounding turret traverse and reload improvement.

Honestly , i hate Neptune with a passion , but absoulutely love the Minotaur , it is just so much more easier to be daring.

Yeah I find the firing angles to be bad, anytime you use your 12 guns outside of island cover you'll die super fast.

[legionary2099]

Just now, TheCrynek said:

Yeah I find the firing angles to be bad, anytime you use your 12 guns outside of island cover you'll die super fast.

You likely wont. Dont ever use 12. Neptune has the same problem like Seatle. They are best when using 6/9 guns all the times. The moment you can use 12 is very very rare and the enemy must be dumb if they let you do it.

Neptune is workable if you are careful about vision control. It melt quickly when you lost it.

[TheCrynek]

Today I outbrawled a full HP Neptune in my Atlanta because he tried to get 12 guns on me, feels bad man with that floating citadel

 

[icy_phoenix]

Minotaur play style is different from Neptune, cause of the increase in concealment buffer. You can be lot more agressive, and even torp things without getting spotted.

If you use radar you have 1Km buffer from concealment and radar range, any dd is dead who spots you cause of the insane RoF.

While on paper AA Neptune can reach higher AA dps than AA MInotaur, but Minotaur's midrange AA is quite big, so its practically a lot stronger. Mino has less HP than Neptune, but she handles way better.

 

Neptune is a fantastic ship, with her nasty 12 guns with near 4s reload. Mino is just even nastier.

[icy_phoenix]

4 hours ago, TheCrynek said:

Today I outbrawled a full HP Neptune in my Atlanta because he tried to get 12 guns on me, feels bad man with that floating citadel

 

That was probably a very bad Neptune player, don't count on it. A neptune can outright kill you even if he stays full broadside. His RoF is faster than Atlanta, and almost double HP. Neptune guns are british 152mm AP, and does a lot more damage than Atlanta even when you get a citadel. So, next time you see a neptune, don't jump on him, he might be a competent one. ;)

[Thyaliad]

Is the Neptune really that bad? I really enjoyed playing mine and thought it is a pretty solid ship.

A definite improvement over the Edinburgh, which imo was pretty meh coming from the Fiji.

[TheCrynek]

4 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

That was probably a very bad Neptune player, don't count on it. A neptune can outright kill you even if he stays full broadside. His RoF is faster than Atlanta, and almost double HP. Neptune guns are british 152mm AP, and does a lot more damage than Atlanta even when you get a citadel. So, next time you see a neptune, don't jump on him, he might be a competent one. ;)

Yeah you're probably right in that he could have done better like broke my turrets or fired torps , but angled ship does wonders against RN cruisers.

[TheCrynek]

3 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

Is the Neptune really that bad? I really enjoyed playing mine and thought it is a pretty solid ship.

A definite improvement over the Edinburgh, which imo was pretty meh coming from the Fiji.

I never said it was bad, but it's probably too passive for my playstyle which tends to be more aggressive.
I just find the Neptune a bit too big in size and detection range and also the firing angles are not good for such a high citadel.
A lot of the time I can only effectively use 6 guns maybe 9 if I'm lucky, otherwise I get deleted anywhere outside of island cover

[icy_phoenix]

7 hours ago, TheCrynek said:

I never said it was bad, but it's probably too passive for my playstyle which tends to be more aggressive.
I just find the Neptune a bit too big in size and detection range and also the firing angles are not good for such a high citadel.
A lot of the time I can only effectively use 6 guns maybe 9 if I'm lucky, otherwise I get deleted anywhere outside of island cover

I used to pick up places to smoke where I have good escape when smoke is over, usually closer to caps. That way you get to use all of your guns. I don't remember fighting in open water much, but you can do it if no BB is within 14-15 km. Your handing is a lot better than any other T9. But yah Mino is a lot better.

[legionary2099]

6 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

I used to pick up places to smoke where I have good escape when smoke is over, usually closer to caps. That way you get to use all of your guns. I don't remember fighting in open water much, but you can do it if no BB is within 14-15 km. Your handing is a lot better than any other T9. But yah Mino is a lot better.

On some maps it is fairly hard to reach a good position thanks to the 10km concealment , you lack option like minotaur do and sometimes are forced into not optimal position while waiting for a better chance. My biggest gripe with the ship

[icy_phoenix]

3 hours ago, legionary2099 said:

On some maps it is fairly hard to reach a good position thanks to the 10km concealment , you lack option like minotaur do and sometimes are forced into not optimal position while waiting for a better chance. My biggest gripe with the ship

Yes, especially some big maps with very open spaces. And ocean...

[TheCrynek]

Btw what would be the best captain perks for a Radar and sometimes smoke Minotaur?
Atm I have
PT
AR
JOAT
SI
AFT
CE

I'm not sure what to spend the last 3 points on

[legionary2099]

21 minutes ago, TheCrynek said:

Btw what would be the best captain perks for a Radar and sometimes smoke Minotaur?
Atm I have
PT
AR
JOAT
SI
AFT
CE

I'm not sure what to spend the last 3 points on

AFT is fairly useless nowadays, if you want to shoot planes , pick manual AA control. That said , spend some points on survivability expert and jack of all trades help immensely so that you can cycle your consumables and stay in the fight longer. The repair cool down boost might also help or even pick RDF to chase lolibotes.

[TheCrynek]

51 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

AFT is fairly useless nowadays, if you want to shoot planes , pick manual AA control. That said , spend some points on survivability expert and jack of all trades help immensely so that you can cycle your consumables and stay in the fight longer. The repair cool down boost might also help or even pick RDF to chase lolibotes.

Isn't Manual AA more useful for Neptune than Minotaur?
Also when did AFT become "fairly useless" (I'm probably a bit clueless here) ,  also I heard that it's fairly split between choosing AFT and Manual AA on Minotaur.

Edit: I guess if it comes down it I can respec once my captain hits level 19 and I gain some elite XP. AFT isn't a terrible skill, just probably not the best for Minotaur

 

[Thyaliad]

Personally I prefer AFT over Manual AA. Reason being the increased range makes it a lot easier to protect allies from airstrikes. Plus it also affects Secondaries (though that is a moot point on the Minotaur).

But it is your preference really.

[icy_phoenix]

47 minutes ago, TheCrynek said:

Isn't Manual AA more useful for Neptune than Minotaur?
Also when did AFT become "fairly useless" (I'm probably a bit clueless here) ,  also I heard that it's fairly split between choosing AFT and Manual AA on Minotaur.

Edit: I guess if it comes down it I can respec once my captain hits level 19 and I gain some elite XP. AFT isn't a terrible skill, just probably not the best for Minotaur

 

Well, it's not that simple. Ofcourse AFT is extremely useful if you want that 8.6 km no-fly zone, idk why Legionary suggested otherwise above. And MAA is useful for both Mino and Neptune. While it is true that Neptune has more DPS boost out of MAA than Mino, but most of those boosted dps for Neptune are for midrange AA (I forgot exact range, somewhere around 4.5 km). Also the midrange AA are vulnerable to HE spam destruction. So if you go for AA build, you need both AFT and MAA on Mino. Even though Neptune has 12 guns vs Mino's 10 guns, but for some unknown reason, Mino has better AA dps from those 152 mm guns (cause game probably counts number of turrets over number of guns).

However, due to the rarity of CVs in T10 mm, you might think about SE, JoAT or even smoke skills. Or take other skills like RPF if you play RADAR mino.

This is my Mino build:

PT, AR, SI, CE, AFT, MAA, PM.

While I think JoAT would be better than AR but I am using the special UK commander (Jack Dunkirk, boosts EM, JoAT and Smoke) that has buff to JoAT for BBs, The cooldown I get on consumables seem to be ok with me and wont need any further boost. Which I might later change.

To catch cvs off guard, I usually keep my AA off, so it lets the planes get into very close to you (AA spotting range), then you enable AA with manual pointing and watch them planes die fast.

[legionary2099]

1 hour ago, icy_phoenix said:

Well, it's not that simple. Ofcourse AFT is extremely useful if you want that 8.6 km no-fly zone, idk why Legionary suggested otherwise above. And MAA is useful for both Mino and Neptune. While it is true that Neptune has more DPS boost out of MAA than Mino, but most of those boosted dps for Neptune are for midrange AA (I forgot exact range, somewhere around 4.5 km). Also the midrange AA are vulnerable to HE spam destruction. So if you go for AA build, you need both AFT and MAA on Mino. Even though Neptune has 12 guns vs Mino's 10 guns, but for some unknown reason, Mino has better AA dps from those 152 mm guns (cause game probably counts number of turrets over number of guns).

However, due to the rarity of CVs in T10 mm, you might think about SE, JoAT or even smoke skills. Or take other skills like RPF if you play RADAR mino.

This is my Mino build:

PT, AR, SI, CE, AFT, MAA, PM.

While I think JoAT would be better than AR but I am using the special UK commander (Jack Dunkirk, boosts EM, JoAT and Smoke) that has buff to JoAT for BBs, The cooldown I get on consumables seem to be ok with me and wont need any further boost. Which I might later change.

To catch cvs off guard, I usually keep my AA off, so it lets the planes get into very close to you (AA spotting range), then you enable AA with manual pointing and watch them planes die fast.

The 8.6 is useful ofc i dont deny that , but enemy CV will get away if you dont go all point into AA ( which is very doubtful). MFAA is the best bang for the buck , so you dont waste points into too much AA ( which is not very useful if you play solo or dont div CV ). By using MFAA you could catch many  CV off guard and delete the most dangerous threats within a reasonable time frame ( torpedo planes ). 8.6 km is useful sure , but most CV will get the drop on you before you take out half of their squad provided that you dont go too deep into AA.

Slap the 10% AA damage bonus flag in and you are set.

I feel that going 8 points deep into AA is not worth it unless intentionally division with CV. CV in random nowadays are not very common.

[TheCrynek]

34 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

The 8.6 is useful ofc i dont deny that , but enemy CV will get away if you dont go all point into AA ( which is very doubtful). MFAA is the best bang for the buck , so you dont waste points into too much AA ( which is not very useful if you play solo or dont div CV ). By using MFAA you could catch many  CV off guard and delete the most dangerous threats within a reasonable time frame ( torpedo planes ). 8.6 km is useful sure , but most CV will get the drop on you before you take out half of their squad provided that you dont go too deep into AA.

Slap the 10% AA damage bonus flag in and you are set.

I feel that going 8 points deep into AA is not worth it unless intentionally division with CV. CV in random nowadays are not very common.

I've only gotten AFT as an AA perk
I got stuff like Jack of all Trades and plan to get Survivability expert so I think my Minotaur will be a fairly balanced build

[legionary2099]

Just now, TheCrynek said:

I've only gotten AFT as an AA perk
I got stuff like Jack of all Trades and plan to get Survivability expert so I think my Minotaur will be a fairly balanced build

I regret taking AFT. You start attacking CV at 8.6 which is very early. If he is not dumb he will pull back. At 8.6 ~ 7.2 km range you shoot planes down fairly slowly , and even at 5-6 you will likely only take down 20-40% of his planes. Now why is that dangerous ? A determined CV will definitely get you , esp if he has AP bomb or torpedo plane and willing to trade.

MFAA stop that by forcing the CV to make a bad trade , it delete a squad extremely quickly , forcing him to cycle much longer and he is afraid to take you unless he is willing to go all out ( all strikes on you at the same time which is very unlikely).

And not shooting AA randomly will also sometimes fool CV into thinking you are vulnerable , which you arent and waste his time and cycles.

[icy_phoenix]

2 hours ago, legionary2099 said:

but most CV will get the drop on you before you take out half of their squad provided that you dont go too deep into AA.

From first hand experience, this is not true. Minotaur swat planes like flies with proper AA build. But that is hardly the reason behind going for full AA.

Also, the point of 8.6 km AA is not for yourself, you deny 2 caps at a time from CV. That's the point of long range AA. I play all my ships at full AA, and I can guarantee you that if you camp between A and B with a Mino that has full AA, CV will not even approach it (after the first time ofc)

Here's a little trick with MAA, you focus on a squad, but you don't wait for all of them to die, as soon as 1/2 dies you instantly focus another target and keep doing it. The more planes in a squad the more AA (aura) damage they take. You keep cycling among the squads in range with MAA. This maximizes the effectiveness.

 

@TheCrynek my suggestion for Mino, if you go for AA build, do not go half AA, go full on AA or full on survival. Mino only needs 10 points to be effective, the rest are for making it super powerful in one aspect, not half baked in more than one. But it's up to you. Your ship, your captain, your choice.

[TheCrynek]

@icy_phoenix

In that case I might spec mine as a DD hunter since I don't generally see CVs, but I'll see.

[Big_Black_Hawk]

1.DPS &very fast turning turrets

2.Radar

3.Concealment(Really important):Allows it to stealth-torp and stealth-radar.

[_TrogDorTheBurninator_]

Mino is very fun to play, even if you do occasionally get one shot deleted.

And don't forget the all important Hydro to watch all the incoming torp spam while wearing a smoking jacket.