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Max_Battle

AA guns tracking?

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I took this video to see the secondaries tracking on this ship. It's obvious that the individual guns track (which I think looks cool) and need to turn to point at their target.

Now I know that AA guns don't work exactly the same way - indeed they work nothing like it. Whereas the secondary guns seem to be AI controlled auto-firing turrets, the AA guns work in auras.

I've read up on this because of a question I have about positioning yourself to use your AA guns the most effectively.

Now first, yes, I know. I've read what is written. Auras. I get it. It's just that there seems to be some "tracking" of some kind involved as well.

By that I mean, I watch my tracers fire up in the air at approaching aircraft but if I make a sharp turn, they seem to stop firing for moment, as if my sudden move has caused my AA guns to lose their orientation for moment before they reacquire and start firing again.

Is this my imagination?

My question is actually this:

Say you are in an Op and you know exactly where the enemy aircraft are going to come from. Does it make any difference if you remain stationary under their flight path, broadside onto their approach and depart vector compared to, for example sailing in circles under where the planes will travel? (But keeping the aircraft targets WITHIN the same aura/auras range regardless of whether your ship is stationary or mobile).

I have read that intervening terrain and even your own ship's superstructure have no LOS concerns when it comes to AA guns as they work as an aura mechanic NOT direct fire. In this case, the only thing that matters is what range, or aura, the aircraft are from your ship.

I know my observations may be subjective, but it just seems like there is more happening here with AA guns firing that a simple "band of effect" around my ship.

They do seem to track, not just work in a zone.

Is this just the visual representation of AA fire that is confusing me?

 

 

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aa guns typically work best broadside. as a plane goes around front or back the number of guns that can target the plane reduces.

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1 minute ago, keskparane said:

aa guns typically work best broadside. as a plane goes around front or back the number of guns that can target the plane reduces.

Yes that's what I though intuitively but that's not what "aura" means.

Is it a combination of direct fire and aura?

Can the aura only benefit from the number of possible guns that CAN be brought to bear on a target?

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5 minutes ago, keskparane said:

aa guns typically work best broadside. as a plane goes around front or back the number of guns that can target the plane reduces.

This isn't true. Otherwise always the first plane (the tip of the triangle they form) would always die first which isn't the case.

And the aura is centered on the surface ship, so it does not matter how you are angling. Evidence? Enable AA circle, its only one. Remember? AA tracers are transparent and goes through even rocks (cuz physix)

Edited by icy_phoenix

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1 minute ago, Max_Battle said:

Can the aura only benefit from the number of possible guns that CAN be brought to bear on a target?

It's just one circle for one ship.

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20 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

It's just one circle for one ship.

So, absolutely, positively, regardless of how and where the tracers seem to be firing, it's just how many guns of a given calibre that are allocated to that aura matters to calculation of plane shootdown?

There is absolutely no targeting or tracking of individual AA guns of any kind?

( I have read up on the "strength of gun vs toughness of aircraft" calculations and how often they happen depending on aura - it's very much like Warhammer 40K TT and how many "wounds" a given model has, so I know all that stuff too).

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4 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

So, absolutely, positively, regardless of how and where the tracers seem to be firing, it's just how many guns of a given calibre that are allocated to that aura matters to calculation of plane shootdown?

There is absolutely no targeting or tracking of individual AA guns of any kind?

There isn't in absolute form, but there is some sort of tracking in a logical way, for example, different caliber AA gun groups imposing different radius within the aura and putting different DPS (overlapping as well).

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1 minute ago, icy_phoenix said:

There isn't in absolute form, but there is some sort of tracking in a logical way, for example, different caliber AA gun groups imposing different radius within the aura and putting different DPS (overlapping as well).

Yeah I get that. I read LWM explanation about order of planes entering auras and how they are selected and "locked onto" in the absence of you manually targeting them.

It's just like I said in my original post, there seems to be a "stream of fire" that can be interrupted by the movement of my ship without changing the aura distance the target is from my ship.

This leads me to (albeit intuitively) agree with @keskparane 's observation above BUT, strictly speaking, that's not what aura means and isn't what I have read about how AA fire works.

Which is why I'm wondering if the visual representation of AA fire is just there to look pretty and not actually represent anything that is actually happening as far as what planes are being shot at and their chance of being shot down.

Because if the visual representation is even mildly accurate, it seems that not moving (or moving slowly, especially broadside to planes) would allow your AA guns to "lock on" more effectively.

I'm not arguing for one way or the other. It's a genuine question. And the answer may very well be, "no, the graphics are just pretty, enjoy it". I'd accept that.

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2 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

Which is why I'm wondering if the visual representation of AA fire is just there to look pretty and not actually represent anything that is actually happening as far as what planes are being shot at and their chance of being shot down.

You are correct, just there to look pretty. You know many ships have AA guns in their Bow and Stern too? Notice these AA tracer animation closely in your next battle, only generate from super structure.

Next thing you can observe is where those tracers are hitting, just a general direction of the planes, not even close to them. Zoom out and see those tracers can go through your super structure, and even mountains.

4 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

Yeah I get that. I read LWM explanation about order of planes entering auras and how they are selected and "locked onto" in the absence of you manually targeting them.

You can manually target a squad not individual planes in the squad, which may very well is just a smaller circle in game engine calculation. The AA pressure is applied on the squad and planes keep dying one by one. Which one dies first is just the visual effect. It does not mean your AA hit that one first.

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3 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

You are correct, just there to look pretty. You know many ships have AA guns in their Bow and Stern too? Notice these AA tracer animation closely in your next battle, only generate from super structure.

Next thing you can observe is where those tracers are hitting, just a general direction of the planes, not even close to them. Zoom out and see those tracers can go through your super structure, and even mountains.

You can manually target a squad not individual planes in the squad, which may very well is just a smaller circle in game engine calculation. The AA pressure is applied on the squad and planes keep dying one by one. Which one dies first is just the visual effect. It does not mean your AA hit that one first.

Yeah. K. I have found it a bit harder to get some good in game vids of AA fire but I've been meaning too.

Best footage of course comes after I'm dead (an undesirable event!) and then I need to be right on a ship with a decent volume of AA fire AND being attacked by some planes.

Well ok, then. Just rely on the auras. Good.

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3 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

Yeah. K. I have found it a bit harder to get some good in game vids of AA fire but I've been meaning too.

Best footage of course comes after I'm dead (an undesirable event!) and then I need to be right on a ship with a decent volume of AA fire AND being attacked by some planes.

Well ok, then. Just rely on the auras. Good.

Or, just load in a coop game?

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2 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

I guess. You see more CV there.

I have an old video of my Hosho game, look from 6:15 (marked on video below as well), AA tracers from kongo coming out from the absolute center point of the ship.

 

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3 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

I have an old video of my Hosho game, look from 6:15 (marked on video below as well), AA tracers from kongo coming out from the absolute center point of the ship.

 

Mmm. Seen.

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31 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

Because if the visual representation is even mildly accurate, it seems that not moving (or moving slowly, especially broadside to planes) would allow your AA guns to "lock on" more effectively.

CV and AA in general is being reworked, may be we can see some actual things happening in the near future?

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The AA effects are purely aesthetic. It has absolutely no bearing on the actual effectiveness of your AA.

Yes, your AA guns will swivel and track AA targets, but that is purely for show. And if you look closely enough you will see that the AA tracers don't originate from each individual gun, but rather from certain points on a ship's superstructure.

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4 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

This isn't true. Otherwise always the first plane (the tip of the triangle they form) would always die first which isn't the case.

And the aura is centered on the surface ship, so it does not matter how you are angling. Evidence? Enable AA circle, its only one. Remember? AA tracers are transparent and goes through even rocks (cuz physix)

Actually by my theory the first plane in a head or tail on attack would be the most protected and the least likely to die and the planes to the side of it would be the most likely. An aura or circle would make the first plane in any attack passing over the center of the ship the most likely to die.

Now the reality of the aura and how the planes take damage may not be accurately represented by the aa tracers and audio but I can tell you for sure that a plane that crosses my bow or stern will take less visual and audible aa fire.

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34 minutes ago, keskparane said:

Now the reality of the aura and how the planes take damage may not be accurately represented by the aa tracers and audio but I can tell you for sure that a plane that crosses my bow or stern will take less visual and audible aa fire.

From my tests for over 100 battles in Missouri (full AA) against coop CV shows that it absolutely has no impact. It only matters how many squads/units are inside the aura. And for visual / audio, how close they are from me.  Each time they enter an AA range (long/medium/short) AA tracer amount increases.

Dive bombers usually approach from now or stern, and they die less only because they have more HP than torpedoes bombers which usually approach from broadside.

You can try with manual AA since it will prevent distribution of AA DPS across squads in range and test in training room I guess.

The whole AA thing is still RNG, but a lot of tests will show you it doesn't matter, at least for now. I will still test it tomorrow and see if there's a difference in audio visual that I might have missed.

Edited by icy_phoenix

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31 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

The whole AA thing is still RNG, but a lot of tests will show you it doesn't matter, at least for now. I will still test it tomorrow and see if there's a difference in audio visual that I might have missed.

Yes, RNG. I can have a full AA ship fire at a squadron for some time and get no kills and then all of a sudden 3 planes will drop all at once.

But I get this because I understand its a "test a tick" depending on strength of AA gun vs toughness of planes.

If you can work out a controlled way of testing I'd be interested to see results.

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