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Regarding Bots, AFKs, Riggers, Cheaters, and Abusers...

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3 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

Yeah call me a sour-grape as well but I too don't like where WoWs is heading.

Instead of trying to fix the game or improve gameplay or make tutorials to better educate the playerbase WG prefers to shove yet more and more untested and unneeded content  Plus with more and more emphasis on Tier 10 gameplay with Legendary Modules, Ranked,Clan Battles and high-tier only missions, is it any wonder some players are turning to botting?

 

You can blame some certain testers for not checking suspicious-programing from 3rd party for botting and selling their account illegally .

I am agreed to that they shove more stupid contents like WV and some Reskinned Bote TF2 Version instead of helping newbies .

Edited by LawrenceXVIII

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14 hours ago, sunlo2013 said:

@icy_phoenix

Inspired by your post, I just realised one thing. If the protected MM would separate/protect the very poor skill/stats players, than it would also totally break botter's business model.

Imagine people use bot to grind account and multiple ships to T10, it would took them few thousand to more than 10 thousand games to achieve, in the process they ruined the account's stats. But there is not a problem for them as long as they can play those T10 ships or sell the account to someone don't mind stats.

However, if people stats below certain skill level was not allowed to join the normal MM, than the value of account below certain stats level also loss its value. So, even if the account has all T10 ships, it is worthless to most buyers, because they will have to spend as much time to grind the stats back to normal level before they can join the normal MM.

In conclusion, if stats matters than people won't use bots. The question is how and where to draw that line.

@legionary2099 What do you think of this?

Btw, I still don't think WG would do it, but it look promising if it can break their business model. Could have been a long term solution.

I was very suprised by the counter arguements. 

You and @icy_phoenix makes a lot of sense , and very well could be implemented except that we cant. The game currently only amass 10k players at its peak , supposedly we filter out bad players , likely than half of the population will no longer see the other half. The Berlin Wall was broken into pieces for that exact reason. Not all players are good , so that mean you could very well cut 1/3rd of the players away. Ok , so question is , if everyone is in the same skill level ? How do you improve since everyone is the same like you , there is no incentive to get better. All of the hardship of getting better fall on the shoulder of the player who want to get better , but in game real example is few. Also if you segrete the population , most of them will go back to 50% wr without actually improving since everyone is the same.

My point is , the server population is already low , are you sure you want to wait 5 minutes per game like NZ & AUS sv in WoT in the morning hours ? Most people dont have spare times to wait 5 minutes a game , it adds up very quickly.

The choice is bad , so instead of seperating them i suggest they put warning messages about what players are getting into. That should be done first and foremost.

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3 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

Well, these things are extremely hard to generalize. Motivation behind my original post was that those who are sub 40% or 35% even, they are guaranteed spammers, autopilot botters. People above it may be riggers, but they need to be investigated from game play feedback.

Nothing is a guarantee. Cause i have friends who are extremely bads , kids who play the game with his brother and he had no idea what he is doing , hes just doing it for fun.

So yes , there are humans in that so called "hell" you speak of. That may be strange to us , but to this kid and his bro who is working in 12 hours shift , their idea of fun is blasting stuffs up and not caring the consequences. So i would not generalize anyone with any number of WR or any other metric.

How about adding a "are you human quiz b4 a match" , seem fairly simple to me. And that leave out a lots of bots until a more dedicated anti bot program can be written.

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2 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

Nothing is a guarantee. Cause i have friends who are extremely bads , kids who play the game with his brother and he had no idea what he is doing , hes just doing it for fun.

So yes , there are humans in that so called "hell" you speak of. That may be strange to us , but to this kid and his bro who is working in 12 hours shift , their idea of fun is blasting stuffs up and not caring the consequences. So i would not generalize anyone with any number of WR or any other metric.

How about adding a "are you human quiz b4 a match" , seem fairly simple to me. And that leave out a lots of bots until a more dedicated anti bot program can be written.

Please try to leave sentimental stories out of this discussion. We are talking about player profiles with 5k-10k or even more battles. Show me your friends like that.

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Just now, icy_phoenix said:

Please try to leave sentimental stories out of this discussion. We are talking about player profiles with 5k-10k or even more battles. Show me your friends like that.

My point is this , whatever metric you guys propose to judge , you will always have people in the "crossfire" zone that got hit , got pissed off and leave the game. And we are back at facing the same old faces again. Im not a fan of seperation and classify the playerbase no matter what form or shape there is. We already have Ranked for the more dedicated fanbase to test their skill.

Random should be what it said : Random and not Random with a twist.

Another note : Seperation like proposing could very well be flagged as against the law in some places as denying services. But oh well , its sketchy , so i wont press that point.

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10 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

How about adding a "are you human quiz b4 a match" , seem fairly simple to me. And that leave out a lots of bots until a more dedicated anti bot program can be written.

And in case you have missed in my previous posts, I also suggested this

On 10/3/2018 at 2:32 PM, icy_phoenix said:

However, as a machine learning professional and a software engineer, I can say with confidence that "How do you determine a Player who is either very bad / disabled who plays the game as a form of relief and a bot?" can be answered with very high probability just by analyzing data. It isn't really hard for developers, if they are willing, to add some checks whether the input fed to the game is indeed made by human, and/or a ship is entirely controlled by "autopilot" maneuver without any further input from the human player.

I have been in game testing before, it was a facebook based game, and devs implemented checks to analyze input feed that completely prevented autoclickers. I'm sure devs are aware of similar algorithms, and may be they are even working on it, or probably we can somehow pass on the idea to them? I think it can reduce the botting behavior to a great extent.

Just a quiz while starting the game isn't enough, he can just answer it and go AFK, you need something which is scanning for player input throughout the game. The idea about separating is not what you understood. You probably need to read those posts again. To an end user, it should still look transparent. You make it sound like we are stopping extremely bad players from playing or enjoying the game if that idea was to be implemented, which is not true. They can enjoy even better among similar players like them, salt free from better players. MM doesn't mean you always need 12v12, 8v8 games are even faster and can be more enjoyable. 

Pardon me if I sound harsh but every-time we complain about MM, people from WG and some others are ready to jump in with the ready-made excuse of MM time getting too long. At super late hours its already too long. There are already a lot of matching factors present in MM which get disabled after 3 minutes. We could do this the same way as well. After 3 minutes wait, a player can be put in any available MM. 

And like @sunlo2013 mentioned in a previous post, it doesn't even have to be the winrate, can be a combination of various statistics. You don't like statistics to represent something? Too bad, cause numbers never lie.

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17 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

Random should be what it said : Random and not Random with a twist.

Another note : Seperation like proposing could very well be flagged as against the law in some places as denying services. But oh well , its sketchy , so i wont press that point.

You really don't get the point, do you? Separation DOES NOT MEAN denying in ANY shape and form.

Those players, as you said, just want to be botting shooting around after day's hardship (funny when you are telling someone who work 13-14 hours a day), they don't care who they are playing with, but we care. We don't want to play with bots. Just cause it is called "RANDOM BATTLE" does not mean I want to play with random botters in my team. NO, Random Battle means we will meet random actual human players who are actively playing by feeding input to the game by themselves, and Intentional throw of games is punishable in any game, even in wows. If you do not know that, go read the EULA again. There are a lot of rules what you are and are not allowed to do during game.

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Just now, icy_phoenix said:

And in case you have missed in my previous posts, I also suggested this

Just a quiz while starting the game isn't enough, he can just answer it and go AFK, you need something which is scanning for player input throughout the game. The idea about separating is not what you understood. You probably need to read those posts again. To an end user, it should still look transparent. You make it sound like we are stopping extremely bad players from playing or enjoying the game if that idea was to be implemented, which is not true. They can enjoy even better among similar players like them, salt free from better players. MM doesn't mean you always need 12v12, 8v8 games are even faster and can be more enjoyable. 

Pardon me if I sound harsh but every-time we complain about MM, people from WG and some others are ready to jump in with the ready-made excuse of MM time getting too long. At super late hours its already too long. There are already a lot of matching factors present in MM which get disabled after 3 minutes. We could do this the same way as well. After 3 minutes wait, a player can be put in any available MM. 

And like @sunlo2013 mentioned in a previous post, it doesn't even have to be the winrate, can be a combination of various statistics. You don't like statistics to represent something? Too bad, cause numbers never lie.

Ok , instead of complicating this up how about i make myself clear : Sorry i misunderstood your point , but i dont like how it should be implemented.

First : Make rank mode permanent , for every tier , get in there and expect for some serious dedication and certain threshold of whatever combined stats. Second , normal random everything goes.

Bam , dedication never meet for the fun. Improving club hone their skill so they can join Rank mode.

Second : When i ask for anti bot quiz , i mean it is for every time you click the battle button , not when you log in. You should have a better idea of if it is possible or not. Im not an IT guy so no idea how to do that.

I know there is no perfect solution to problems , but i hate the very fact that people use stats as leverage when arguing , and this is from WoT experience so sorry about that.

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Just now, icy_phoenix said:

You really don't get the point, do you? Separation DOES NOT MEAN denying in ANY shape and form.

Those players, as you said, just want to be botting shooting around after day's hardship (funny when you are telling someone who work 13-14 hours a day), they don't care who they are playing with, but we care. We don't want to play with bots. Just cause it is called "RANDOM BATTLE" does not mean I want to play with random botters in my team. NO, Random Battle means we will meet random actual human players who are actively playing by feeding input to the game by themselves, and Intentional throw of games is punishable in any game, even in wows. If you do not know that, go read the EULA again. There are a lot of rules what you are and are not allowed to do during game.

So supposed that i buy a Tirpitz , i have no idea of playing and im bad like bot. I get flagged as a bot , got kicked out  so what now. I can file a law suit and thats the problem. Looks like we are missing the point is that : how do we tell a bot from a human ? What if a human got hit and he file a lawsuit , then what do we do ? This is unjustice. We as players dont bear responsibilities for that. But i do feel guilty if a human got hit just if the consersation here does not make it clear to WG about it and WG blindly please their players.

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3 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

First : Make rank mode permanent , for every tier , get in there and expect for some serious dedication and certain threshold of whatever combined stats. Second , normal random everything goes.

Bam , dedication never meet for the fun. Improving club hone their skill so they can join Rank mode.

 

Well, reading back thread titles and opening post, the riggers here being complained about are from Ranked battles. These bots are ruining ranked mode too. I don't know why you think just making ranked available all the time should solve the problem, might work, but don't you think it also separates the playerbase, aka,  the same thing you were opposing.

Well according to dev blogs, WG is thinking about implementing Junior Ranked mode, but I doubt that is even a concern here. Botting and unsportsmanlike like gameplay is a problem mostly at high tiers, and it doesn't matter what mode we play, be it co-op, ranked, scenario, random, or anything else, we don't want them, and accounts used for botting are violation of rules. they should be straight up banned, let alone be played in a different bracket. Reason why we think it would work is already described above, to give enough time to WG to find out offenders, since its a manual process and this would reduce their workload by a good margine.

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Just now, icy_phoenix said:

Well, reading back thread titles and opening post, the riggers here being complained about are from Ranked battles. These bots are ruining ranked mode too. I don't know why you think just making ranked available all the time should solve the problem, might work, but don't you think it also separates the playerbase, aka,  the same thing you were opposing.

Well according to dev blogs, WG is thinking about implementing Junior Ranked mode, but I doubt that is even a concern here. Botting and unsportsmanlike like gameplay is a problem mostly at high tiers, and it doesn't matter what mode we play, be it co-op, ranked, scenario, random, or anything else, we don't want them, and accounts used for botting are violation of rules. they should be straight up banned, let alone be played in a different bracket. Reason why we think it would work is already described above, to give enough time to WG to find out offenders, since its a manual process and this would reduce their workload by a good margine.

We got derailed thats why. The fundamental question here is : how do we know if its a bot or just a bad player ?

 

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5 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

So supposed that i buy a Tirpitz , i have no idea of playing and im bad like bot. I get flagged as a bot , got kicked out  so what now. I can file a law suit and thats the problem. Looks like we are missing the point is that : how do we tell a bot from a human ? What if a human got hit and he file a lawsuit , then what do we do ? This is unjustice. We as players dont bear responsibilities for that. But i do feel guilty if a human got hit just if the consersation here does not make it clear to WG about it and WG blindly please their players.

Please I beg of you, when you present examples, please do keep these information in mind that we are talking about:

1. Number of total battles (usually a lot)

2. Number of daily battles (over 100s daily)

3. The tier we are talking about (usually T8+)

None of your examples you presented so far pass the criteria of our complains. I do not think you can find a counter example cause these are guaranteed to be botting, those are nothing new, read @drakon233's previous post, they even have chinese workshop for these kind of stuffs. Start a battle, set autopilot, shoot 1-2 times, die, rinse and repeat.

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7 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

Please I beg of you, when you present examples, please do keep these information in mind that we are talking about:

1. Number of total battles (usually a lot)

2. Number of daily battles (over 100s daily)

3. The tier we are talking about (usually T8+)

None of your examples you presented so far pass the criteria of our complains. I do not think you can find a counter example cause these are guaranteed to be botting, those are nothing new, read @drakon233's previous post, they even have chinese workshop for these kind of stuffs. Start a battle, set autopilot, shoot 1-2 times, die, rinse and repeat.

So what about multiple people playing the same account. FYI , sharing accounts is allowed by the laws of Viet Nam , and the EULA is nullified by the law.

So what if a studio employ a human player who do just minimally to avoid being flagged as bot ? You know moving a bit , swap chair , off to another PC and repeat. How do we tell about that. He is a human playing.

Im just trying to make everything perfectly clear. I dont like bots either , but someone could have their accounts locked wrongly because of everything being said here.

Edited by legionary2099

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2 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

So what if a studio employ a human player who do just minimally to avoid being flagged as bot ? You know moving a bit , swap chair , off to another PC and repeat. How do we tell about that. He is a human playing.

Please refer to the several terms used in the thread title. Do you want us to repeat all those stuffs in every line we write? Or is referring all as bots good enough for you?

 

3 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

So what about multiple people playing the same account. FYI , sharing accounts is allowed by the laws of Viet Nam , and the EULA is nullified by the law.

I'm sorry, not taking your word for it since many vietnamese players in our clan just said they never heard of any law about game accounts to begin with, please give us a source. It would definitely be one of the strangest law existing on earth.

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Just now, icy_phoenix said:

Please refer to the several terms used in the thread title. Do you want us to repeat all those stuffs in every line we write? Or is referring all as bots good enough for you?

 

I'm sorry, not taking your word for it since many vietnamese players in our clan just said they never heard of any law about game accounts to begin with, please give us a source. It would definitely be one of the strangest law existing on earth.

The law stated that unless it is written by a lawful contract , the user using the service can gift, share that service away ( like a ticket for example ). And i can argue that the EULA does not look lawful to me , specifically in their dealing with a few things like their stance towards comments , posting , ... etc. The laws of VN annulled quite a few of the sentenced said there,  and if one of them is annulled , the contract ( EULA) is not lawful and we do not have to abide the stated content there.

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1 minute ago, legionary2099 said:

The law stated that unless it is written by a lawful contract , the user using the service can gift, share that service away ( like a ticket for example ). And i can argue that the EULA does not look lawful to me , specifically in their dealing with a few things like their stance towards comments , posting , ... etc. The laws of VN annulled quite a few of the sentenced said there,  and if one of them is annulled , the contract ( EULA) is not lawful and we do not have to abide the stated content there.

How on earth this has anything to do with account sharing? So you guys share all your facebook accounts? LOL. Please stop.

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4 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

How on earth this has anything to do with account sharing? So you guys share all your facebook accounts? LOL. Please stop.

Well , vietnamese are kinda strange. Account sharing , unless very personal like FB are shared a lot. Especially gaming accounts. And most publishers hate that.

But even VN publishers of game cant do anything about it , and their EULA is usually for fun only. 1. due to the law being not clear ( as i have said about how strange that is ) and 2. law is not strictly enforced.

We have no laws specifically to deal with net items or similarly , but if you see through the various laws, there are a lot of contradictions and i have just used 1 contradiction to prove my view is right :) ( likely not ) hahaha.

Edited by legionary2099

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VN cosumer protection laws , which EULA bypass nicely with their terms. Well whatever

Article 16. Invalid terms of contracts with consumers and general transaction conditions

1. Terms of a contract with a consumer or general transaction conditions are invalid when they:

a/ Exclude responsibilities of the goods or service trader toward the consumer under law;

b/ Restrict or exclude the consumer’s right to lodge complaints or lawsuits;

c/ Allow the goods or service trader to unilaterally change the contract’s conditions already agreed with the consumer, or change rules and regulations on goods sale or service provision applicable to consumers who buy and use goods or services, which are not specified in the contract;

d/ Allow the goods or service trader to unilaterally determine that the consumer fails to perform one or some obligations;

e/ Allow the goods or service trader to set or change prices at the time of goods delivery or service provision;

f/ Allow the goods or service trader to interpret the contract when its terms are construed differently;

g/ Exclude responsibilities of the goods or service trader in case of goods sale or service provision through a third party;

h/ Force consumers to fulfill their obligations even when the goods or service trader fails to fulfill its obligations;

i/ Allow the goods or service trader to transfer its rights and obligations to a third party without the consumers’ consent.

2. Terms of a contract with a consumer or general transaction conditions shall be announced to be invalid under, and their handling complies with, the civil law.

 

Notice point d.) ? thats the irk of the problem.

Edited by legionary2099

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Come on people please try to stay on topic... 

Anyway I don't see why we cannot implement a "Are you human?" captcha system for the more suspicious accounts.

I do not favour with implementing a skill-based MM at this point of time. Not only does this not solve the botting problem (it just sweeps it under the rug), it creates a whole host of other problems.

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Just now, Thyaliad said:

Come on people please try to stay on topic... 

Anyway I don't see why we cannot implement a "Are you human?" captcha system for the more suspicious accounts.

I do not favour with implementing a skill-based MM at this point of time. Not only does this not solve the botting problem (it just sweeps it under the rug), it creates a whole host of other problems.

Well , since their UI team is overloaded , i doubt if it can be implemented right away. But i really think they should not put if off longer than 3 months.

I like the 2 mode approach more : want to try skill ? ranked , want to be whatever ? random , plain simple.

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4 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

A quick and  easy way would be to monitor the amount of games played.

I mean nobody can possibly play 100+ games a day unless they were botting or yoloing every match. After a certain amount of games per day, the player would be forced to do those "Are you a bot?" captcha or something if they want to keep playing.

No need to deal with winrate or WTR or MM or anything like that.

Yeah call me a sour-grape as well but I too don't like where WoWs is heading.

Instead of trying to fix the game or improve gameplay or make tutorials to better educate the playerbase WG prefers to shove yet more and more untested and unneeded content  Plus with more and more emphasis on Tier 10 gameplay with Legendary Modules, Ranked,Clan Battles and high-tier only missions, is it any wonder some players are turning to botting?

I know making a game coding to against those exploiter or botter may take time but it will help a lot. If WG have "balls" to handling this matters like the other game company does such as  in Guild Wars 2 or Monster Hunter World that would be great. 

In the end it's up to the game developers themselves to decide when it comes to their community messing with the game. Although it lead to the developer making changes that benefit everyone for long term profit or  deliver the damage and being "dead server" for not reacting quickly enough due to wanna fast profit .

As for WG, here's one thing I want to tell u. One thing is for sure, staying quiet on these matters is never a good sign and as the creators of the game, you as the game developer must render a verdict on these matters. While you will piss off some of your community, you are still responsible for your content and playing dumb is never a wise choice as one bad response can come back to haunt you if there are future situations to deal with.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Since people comes drag with EULA, here the thing u need to know:

1/ The EULA or Terms of Service is a "CONTRACT" of agreement with the developer/publisher of the game and is not a LAW. You cannot be persecuted for breaking this contract, but your service can be canceled. It just a freaking contract...like a job u know.

This is a piece of misinformation that a lot of people are throwing around out there.

 

2/ There is no actual “International Law”. These statements will apply to EU and NA and are very likely to apply to most developed countries with a free market and some kind of democratic features. However, if u  breaking the Terms of Service of the game and therefore you may lose the right to play the game you bought. With other words: The worst case is that you get banned from the game. The terms of service of a game are not law, but part of the buying contract that you have with a game provider. That's also mean that they can change or update something in the game as long they keep the update to the game communities & if u don't like it the only u can do is just leave the game. Sound a bit unfair but that the reality.

 

3/ To make it simple, if the game developer try to sue you with their "EULA", mind u  keep your lawyers close or relocate into the far East, Asia or Russia (ehem....If u get cough by cheating or selling hacks to other players).

Same goes when u try to sue them, it wont work to them as well, since the EULA is merely just a contract. Both parties can break it. Unless ur country government step up & try making their to interfere with it.

So far EU has the strict regulation on gaming right now....and those gamers from EU should thanks to EA for this.

 

Edited by ArchKongou
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What happens if the bots start getting smarter?

From personal experience I have found that putting a not very effective barrier in the way just encourages your typical hacker to raise the ante and improve the performance of their software so that it is harder to distinguish from a human (the Turing test) and it shouldn't be hard to make some big improvements on the more obvious bots that people seem to be reporting.

Alright, maybe if it (the software) gets good enough you'll start hoping to get the bots on your side BUT, what if the bots get good, get together and then decide to get rid of the human players (the Skynet scenario) ?

Then you'll be sorry :Smile_facepalm:

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2 minutes ago, Moldavia said:

What happens if the bots start getting smarter?

From personal experience I have found that putting a not very effective barrier in the way just encourages your typical hacker to raise the ante and improve the performance of their software so that it is harder to distinguish from a human (the Turing test) and it shouldn't be hard to make some big improvements on the more obvious bots that people seem to be reporting.

Alright, maybe if it (the software) gets good enough you'll start hoping to get the bots on your side BUT, what if the bots get good, get together and then decide to get rid of the human players (the Skynet scenario) ?

Then you'll be sorry :Smile_facepalm:

Give them the OpenAI treatment , now how do we win against bot thread :cap_book:.

oh well , if bots have MLG skill level half of us here would pitchforks anyway.

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3 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

Please try to leave sentimental stories out of this discussion. We are talking about player profiles with 5k-10k or even more battles. Show me your friends like that.

hi

 

2 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

How on earth this has anything to do with account sharing? So you guys share all your facebook accounts? LOL. Please stop.

sometimes when you want to try kurfurst or gearing without actually grinding it, you can borrow those account from close friend. its not only common in vietname, but also in here. of course this is very risky because your account can be gone. 

 

3 hours ago, legionary2099 said:

bla-bla-bla (about MM bracket)

 

2 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

bla-bla-bla (about MM bracket)

 

the MM bracket is actually very geniuses Idea, make it <42% bracket and normal bracket (>42%)..... 

BUT HERE IS THE DIFFERENT! put em in "Noobs Queue"

when you did SUPER POORLY like doing average 5K damage with CV in 20 matches or any indicator else for every 20 matches

you will fight againts Bots in Co-Op and must deal some damage threshold like 1million for DD and 5 million on CV before being released in random.

 

i am somewhat agree with legionary,  but my reason is different......put noobs vs noobs only make the BOTTER and Noobs TAKE BENEFIT. there is a game called "war robot" in smarthphone and tankers (who did badly in purpose) TAKE MASSIVE BENEFIT! because MM bracket like that!

why ? imagine if i am use 100 bots, and there is 100 noob player. this noob player is more noob than the bots,.... guess what? my bots took a lot of XP and credit compared to normal random battle.... this just encourage botting. also if bots vs bots happen, they still gain a lot of XP and credit.

 

so PUT EM playing CO-OP for a while, slower down botting progress and teach those noobs to play Co OP instead.

 

well, i am still agree we need to separate those bots and noobs, but put EM IN CO-OP instead of random battle. make sure they deal some big chunk of damage before released in random. this poor performance is measured every 20 match. for DD they need to cap (instead of damage) atleast 4 times in those 20 battle. 

 

requirement to quit "Noobs Queue" :

- 1 million damage for DD with MAIN GUN ONLY or 2 million damage with Torpedo only.... fire and flood not count

- 3 million damage for CA, must main gun or torpedo only

- 4~5 million for BB and CV without fire and flood

 

and special for CV rules MM :

- a CV player only be able to meet the same CV player TWICE a day

- REMOVE CV from ranked, Daddy will be Happy and Babbies wont cry, except there is balancing rework

- CV should be buffed, to make it very stronk damage dealer and can delete the entire enemy team. this will encourage people to play CV and discourage botting.

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4 hours ago, legionary2099 said:

VN cosumer protection laws , which EULA bypass nicely with their terms. Well whatever

Article 16. Invalid terms of contracts with consumers and general transaction conditions

1. Terms of a contract with a consumer or general transaction conditions are invalid when they:

a/ Exclude responsibilities of the goods or service trader toward the consumer under law;

b/ Restrict or exclude the consumer’s right to lodge complaints or lawsuits;

c/ Allow the goods or service trader to unilaterally change the contract’s conditions already agreed with the consumer, or change rules and regulations on goods sale or service provision applicable to consumers who buy and use goods or services, which are not specified in the contract;

d/ Allow the goods or service trader to unilaterally determine that the consumer fails to perform one or some obligations;

e/ Allow the goods or service trader to set or change prices at the time of goods delivery or service provision;

f/ Allow the goods or service trader to interpret the contract when its terms are construed differently;

g/ Exclude responsibilities of the goods or service trader in case of goods sale or service provision through a third party;

h/ Force consumers to fulfill their obligations even when the goods or service trader fails to fulfill its obligations;

i/ Allow the goods or service trader to transfer its rights and obligations to a third party without the consumers’ consent.

2. Terms of a contract with a consumer or general transaction conditions shall be announced to be invalid under, and their handling complies with, the civil law.

 

Notice point d.) ? thats the irk of the problem.

These laws are exactly same in most of the countries, and as someone pointed above, you cannot sue them when there isn't a lawful contract, cause there is nothing to complain against. But thanks for letting us know which region might be the source of the problem....

 

Anyway, don't worry, this is not going to be implemented ever, We were just theory crafting and 99% of regular forum visitors seem to agree that they do not want these players with inexplicably bad stats in their games. Its something at least, especially when many of them are known for rigging, botting, cheating, purchasing accounts, and abusing many other ways.

Edited by icy_phoenix

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