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mr_glitchy_R

How radar should work IMO

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You see some DD players out there really hate this kind of consumable. In my opinion, radar shouldn't work like how it supposed to be. It's so easy to use. What'd you just do is to activate it, lob some HE shells, and counter DDs until they are dead. It shouldn't be like that. Radar should be something that is used to be a tool that warn players there is an enemy near them. When activated, the enemy will be rendered for 3 seconds and then disappear for the next several seconds then detected again for 3 seconds and so on and so forth. However this does not applied to torps. 

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9 minutes ago, mr_glitchy_R said:

You see some DD players out there really hate this kind of consumable. In my opinion, radar shouldn't work like how it supposed to be. It's so easy to use. What'd you just do is to activate it, lob some HE shells, and counter DDs until they are dead. It shouldn't be like that. Radar should be something that is used to be a tool that warn players there is an enemy near them. When activated, the enemy will be rendered for 3 seconds and then disappear for the next several seconds then detected again for 3 seconds and so on and so forth. However this does not applied to torps. 

That would be how it work in real life. But it will also cause the very annoying blink effect that once dreaded smokers. And due to that , we have to move away from the blink "effect". It is very annoying for anyone involved.

In anycase , my choice of nerfing radar would be that target revealed by radar will only appear as a dot centered to the middle of the ship and not appear as a module until spotted by mk 1 eyeball.

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29 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

That would be how it work in real life. But it will also cause the very annoying blink effect that once dreaded smokers. And due to that , we have to move away from the blink "effect". It is very annoying for anyone involved.

In anycase , my choice of nerfing radar would be that target revealed by radar will only appear as a dot centered to the middle of the ship and not appear as a module until spotted by mk 1 eyeball.

Kinda agree with that :)

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Just make radar range not more than the ship using it's detection radius. Nerf the action time a bit and nerf moskva and donskai radar range. 

Then to fix the BS BB AP pen thing just make all BB AP hits on a DD overpens like they should be and problem solved. I mean how can they not be overpens anyway? Hit a Wooster from 10km full broadside with BB AP and its all overpens yet you hit a DD and you get pen dmg? Got to be kidding right??

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3 hours ago, dieselhead said:

Then to fix the BS BB AP pen thing just make all BB AP hits on a DD overpens like they should be and problem solved. I mean how can they not be overpens anyway? Hit a Wooster from 10km full broadside with BB AP and its all overpens yet you hit a DD and you get pen dmg? Got to be kidding right??

What? I've never ever in my entire life penetrating a hull of a broadside DD. everytime I fires my AP shells to a broadside DD. It always overpens. 

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11 minutes ago, mr_glitchy_R said:

What? I've never ever in my entire life penetrating a hull of a broadside DD. everytime I fires my AP shells to a broadside DD. It always overpens. 

Well when you get hit by BB AP and it does 8k or 10k dmg, pretty sure thats NOT an overpen! lol

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Huge fire blazing away on ship on a smashed up ship,-  all of a sudden radar activates. 

You would think all those delicate wires and antennas just may have been damaged??..

 

Turrets plated with armor get disabled, but not sensitive radar equipment. Seems odd.

And this was back in the day when electronic gear was made of thin glass bulbs...

 

So how about the thought of radar being knocked out for a set duration if the ship has had a HE hit in the related area?

No radar until it gets repaired. It would work like engine or steering repair, hit R or wait for timer.

 

 that's my 2c.

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22 minutes ago, AntifoulAwl said:

Huge fire blazing away on ship on a smashed up ship,-  all of a sudden radar activates. 

You would think all those delicate wires and antennas just may have been damaged??..

 

Turrets plated with armor get disabled, but not sensitive radar equipment. Seems odd.

And this was back in the day when electronic gear was made of thin glass bulbs...

 

So how about the thought of radar being knocked out for a set duration if the ship has had a HE hit in the related area?

No radar until it gets repaired. It would work like engine or steering repair, hit R or wait for timer.

 

 that's my 2c.

all very good points..had,nt considered that before..yea

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17 hours ago, mr_glitchy_R said:

You see some DD players out there really hate this kind of consumable. In my opinion, radar shouldn't work like how it supposed to be. It's so easy to use. What'd you just do is to activate it, lob some HE shells, and counter DDs until they are dead. It shouldn't be like that. Radar should be something that is used to be a tool that warn players there is an enemy near them. When activated, the enemy will be rendered for 3 seconds and then disappear for the next several seconds then detected again for 3 seconds and so on and so forth. However this does not applied to torps. 

The ships blinking in and out is something that the devs has said in the past they do not like. They changed how smoke worked a couple of years ago to fix blinking ships.

They have two potential methods of rebalancing radar they are currently working on.  From the latest dev Q&A: 'I won't go to details right now (we will do it in Dev Blog when it's time). But one is connected with the efficiency of team fire at the target spotted by radar and the other is connected with the ability/timing of such fire. So, we want to address mass focus fire issue with Radar for now, and would like to avoid changing it so hard it affects solo user experience. Ideally, a radar ship will not notice anything significant, but "boom, you're spotted and your life is over" factor will be reduced. We will see if it's enough though.'

So it seems most likely that they will make it so that nothing changes for the ship using radar, but for everyone else the radared ships only appear on the minimap, much like how it currently works in cyclone.  They clearly think the main problem is everyone focusing a radared target, so this seems like it would be an excellent change.

 

Then to fix the BS BB AP pen thing just make all BB AP hits on a DD overpens like they should be and problem solved. I mean how can they not be overpens anyway? Hit a Wooster from 10km full broadside with BB AP and its all overpens yet you hit a DD and you get pen dmg? Got to be kidding right??

Latest iteration does exactly that: 'There is a new potent solution to be tested, which basically tells shells of particular caliber and higher to over penetrate particular plating. I hope, if it does the job and does not break anything, it can be delivered around 0.7.11-12.'  They also said that they can turn it on for particular ships only, so it could be a DD only thing.  I'm not sure why this wasn't their first plan, it seems the most effective.

 

What? I've never ever in my entire life penetrating a hull of a broadside DD. everytime I fires my AP shells to a broadside DD. It always overpens. 

It should.  BB AP regular pens on DD's only happen when the AP shell hits the DD at sufficient angle to cause the fuse to arm.  Fuse arming happens at calibre/6, so for example a 406mm USN BB gun requires 68mm of armour to fuse, and that means it has to hit a 19mm armour DD at about 74° or more.  That is well into autobounce territory, so it needs to overmatch, which a 406mm gun will on 19mm, but a 203mm gun will not (this is why cruiser calibre AP on DD's does not do reg pens).  So basically the DD needs to be less than 20-30° from the perpendicular to cause reg pens.  Of course, as a DD you have a choice as to whether you make yourself an easy target by staying broadside, thus avoiding the reg pens but eating way more shells which are overpens, and way more HE damage from other ships, or kiting away, minimising HE damage but meaning you're likely to eat reg pens and lose half your health bar.  There is really no good action here because of the BB AP reg pen issue, which is why they are fixing it.  You should be able to have an option where good play minimises damage.

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20 hours ago, dieselhead said:

Just make radar range not more than the ship using it's detection radius. Nerf the action time a bit and nerf moskva and donskai radar range. 

Then to fix the BS BB AP pen thing just make all BB AP hits on a DD overpens like they should be and problem solved. I mean how can they not be overpens anyway? Hit a Wooster from 10km full broadside with BB AP and its all overpens yet you hit a DD and you get pen dmg? Got to be kidding right??

Don't forget there is A DD with 50mm plating. And a few others with heal. I can already see how "always overpen" is a bad idea.

When you take bb shots in a DD, it mostly means you have made some mistake. Hence should be punished. Also hitting a DD isn't easy and it means bb player has good sense of target prioritization, and good aim, hence should be rewarded.

And Mark my words, when playerbase is done whining about BB AP, they will start whining about BB HA. With AP, at least most of the shells will always over pen, especially if you go full broadside. I have seen what BB HE can do to DDs, I'd rather take my chances with AP. Playerbase won't stop until "BBs can no longer target lock on DDs" is implemented.

16 hours ago, dieselhead said:

Well when you get hit by BB AP and it does 8k or 10k dmg, pretty sure thats NOT an overpen! lol

He only plays coop.

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It should only work with a LoS and Hydro should function the same.

Radar and hydro should not be able to penetrate through islands. And if it can, surely my torpedoes can tunnel through a mountain, blast out the other side and kill the thousands of island camping Des Moines scrubs.

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3 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

Don't forget there is A DD with 50mm plating. And a few others with heal. I can already see how "always overpen" is a bad idea.

When you take bb shots in a DD, it mostly means you have made some mistake. Hence should be punished. Also hitting a DD isn't easy and it means bb player has good sense of target prioritization, and good aim, hence should be rewarded.

And Mark my words, when playerbase is done whining about BB AP, they will start whining about BB HA. With AP, at least most of the shells will always over pen, especially if you go full broadside. I have seen what BB HE can do to DDs, I'd rather take my chances with AP. Playerbase won't stop until "BBs can no longer target lock on DDs" is implemented.

Oh I dont think BB's AP on DD's needs to be totally nerfed or have zero lock on, it just needs to be balanced out a bit better. Currently it isnt balanced and doesnt make a lot of sense. Same with radar, not a total nerf but just make it more reasonable so DD players can play the objective.

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於 2018/9/22 在 PM6點19分,smell_of_cordite 說:

IF this was a simulation game..yes,there would be good reason to make radar more real world compliant..BUT..it ain't.. 

It isn't a simulation game.  Or else............

1.

CV kill BB CA (maybe DD)

BB kill CA

CA kill DD

2.

Spotting range mechanic(ok)

Concealment mechanic(nothing like this in real world)

ex: DD don't get detected untill 5km

3.there is no such thing as Defensive AA fire there is no such thing is the real world

 

If it is......

1.A teams victory will depend on their carriers

2.BB CA DD will be not that useful

(unless enemy target BB so CV is not sunk)

(DDs will destroy subs)

(Provide AA Defense Fire Support,but wont shoot down many aircrafts)

44 分鐘前,dieselhead 說:

Oh I dont think BB's AP on DD's needs to be totally nerfed or have zero lock on, it just needs to be balanced out a bit better. Currently it isnt balanced and doesnt make a lot of sense. Same with radar, not a total nerf but just make it more reasonable so DD players can play the objective.

Wargaming does want game balance

54 分鐘前,Pocket_Fox 說:

Radar and hydro should not be able to penetrate through islands.

I agree 

However, It might burn down the server(because there is too much calculation) for AI

 

Just my opinion

 

 

 

 

PS: the communication is weird too (mentioned as above)

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3 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

When you take bb shots in a DD, it mostly means you have made some mistake

so... it's mistake to play aggressively then... 

because most of time, I got radared and even BB from 12 - 15km away shot at me... and since I'm under radar I can't leave cover and become still target form far away ship that should not suppose to spot me.

is that a mistake??? hell no! if play objectively near cap is mistake, I'll pick 20km torp and spam without worrying.

yes radar should not work the way it is now and BB AP on DD should be 100% overpen.

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27 minutes ago, PGM991 said:

so... it's mistake to play aggressively then... 

because most of time, I got radared and even BB from 12 - 15km away shot at me... and since I'm under radar I can't leave cover and become still target form far away ship that should not suppose to spot me.

Playing aggressive doesn't mean exposing yourself to the entire enemy fleet. How you play it is what matters. You losing half of your HP in a DD before doing anything means you were playing poorly, not aggressively. When you take shells from a BB 12-15 km away, it IS your mistake. Do not blame that on being aggressive and whats not.

There are certain times and situations to play aggressive. Rushing cap in front of everyone isn't one such moment.

About 1/3rd of my battles are in DDs, and I think BB AP on DD right now is alright.

Just look at 5 seconds from 8:00 to 8:05 in the following video, I intentionally turned into the shells from Montana that allowed me to only get overpenned, if I kept turning away, I would be dead and I would be blaming BB AP for that. From one torp spread I took his entire HP, and what did he do in retaliation? Nothing really. So, he was playing Aggressively too, what would you say for him now I wonder.

Spoiler

 

 

30 minutes ago, PGM991 said:

yes radar should not work the way it is now and BB AP on DD should be 100% overpen.

Well, just as you always do. You want nerfs against anything that can harm your DDs. While I agree with the RADAR issues that they need to be changed, I cannot agree with the rest of the statements.

Edited by icy_phoenix

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I don't want my DD to be unharm.

if enemy BB take counter measure by having HE loaded and blow me off the water, I'm cool with it

If I'm get embush by gun boat or CA around the coner and they kill me, I have no complain.

if im make a mistake, just punish me, I'm fine with that.

but not by AP that can delete nearly anything and cheat-like consumable that can see through island and even extend vision range during cyclone.

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1 hour ago, PGM991 said:

not by AP that can delete nearly anything and cheat-like

I have one last question, do you play BB? And how many DDs have you deleted so far by BB AP dealing massive damage. [Edit] Let me clear up before I'm misunderstood, I'm not comparing stats, I just want to know how frequent is this incident for you as a BB player.

I don't really get your logic. Help me understand please. You are ok with getting deleted by HE, but not fine for AP. At the end of the day, your ship is getting chunked, but apparently it's a problem if done by AP? I am lost at this logic. So basically it's not BB, you are just an AP hater. I guess WG introduced conqueror so that you no longer hate BBs?

I'm just deducing things logically. Let my know my fault.

Edited by icy_phoenix

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1 hour ago, PGM991 said:

I don't want my DD to be unharm.

if enemy BB take counter measure by having HE loaded and blow me off the water, I'm cool with it

If I'm get embush by gun boat or CA around the coner and they kill me, I have no complain.

if im make a mistake, just punish me, I'm fine with that.

but not by AP that can delete nearly anything and cheat-like consumable that can see through island and even extend vision range during cyclone.

Ok fine. Lemme fetch my Conqueror and full DD-hunting Zao.

You're not gonna have a better time than against the average person playing Montana or Worcester. I can guarantee you.

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it's pro and con of shell

BB using AP is focusing on dealing with CA and BB but less ability to dealing with DD

but if using HE for dealing with DD he have to sacrifice ability to deal damage to enemy CA and BB

like CA and DD that have to change shell according to target and situation, BB should not be exception.

if he dedicate in fight me (DD) by switching to HE, I have at lease 30sec chance to get away 

but if AP alone are all rounder that can deal with anything, that is bad. AP pen damage is huge

 

if I'm not mistaken, BB HE have higher velocity that AP, almost like it design to deal with faster moving target to begin with

 

and admit it, if BB AP can deal huge damage with DD is fine, WG won't try to find a way to fix it in the first place.

some time they did good, some also bad...

 

--------------------

 

yes, I get blow away by British BB HE salvo many times and I don't mind since that is how it should be

I even crack joke with him, forget that he is BB nation that mainly use HE and mistakenly show broadside hope for over-pen and BAM!

 

when I'm playing BB I switch between AP and HE all the times 

AP loaded, press 1 once for pending HE shell, once I fire a salvo, HE will be loaded and I'll press 2 once for pending AP shell

mainly I play tier 5 BB (kongo) for credit farming, I don't have high tier BB with strong sigma

but yes, I blow away enemy DD once in a while with both AP and HE, kongo dispersion can't compare to BB that blow my shimakaze away anyway.

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8 hours ago, PGM991 said:

if I'm not mistaken, BB HE have higher velocity that AP, almost like it design to deal with faster moving target to begin with

You are mistaken. HE is much slower at the ranges that matter.

Edited by OtomeprincessTH

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12 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

I have one last question, do you play BB? And how many DDs have you deleted so far by BB AP dealing massive damage. [Edit] Let me clear up before I'm misunderstood, I'm not comparing stats, I just want to know how frequent is this incident for you as a BB player.

I constantly do absurd salvos to DD's with BB AP - as in most games I am sailing a BB I will get AP reg pens on DD's, sometimes multiple in a salvo, and usually at ranges where it is literally impossible for the DD to engage me in any way.  It's nice to get those DD's out of the game, but it's complete rubbish for the DD.  I've been on the receiving end of plenty of these salvos in my DD's too.

The issue is two fold.  Firstly it means that BB's have one shell type for everything.  They should reward picking HE at the right time to shoot at DD's with excellent damage against them.  What's the point in switching to HE though when you can do as good or better damage just staying with AP?  BB's have little enough depth in their play without having to completely ignore shell switching.

Secondly it doesn't reward good play for the DD.  Stay broadside and be an easier and much larger target so you can eat more AP shells that are overpens, as well as being much easier to hit by any cruisers and DD's firing at you with their HE, or kite away and potentially eat huge damage from BB AP pens.  Clearly the right play should be to kite and actively avoid incoming shells, but sometimes the result of your 'correct' play is getting demolished by a BB.  The game should reward smart decisions with better outcomes.

Note this is not just my opinion - this is what the devs have said about BB AP in the past, and it is why they are fixing it.  The new system of no BB AP pens on DD's should be out in 2-3 months if there aren't any issues according to the latest dev Q&A from a few days ago.  Hopefully the radar fix is announced in more detail shortly as well, and comes in a similar time frame.

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