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KEN_609_defender

What to do when playing Japanese DDs

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I would recommend you do a search on the forum, there have been many threads about this.

 

As an IJN torpboat, your strengths are concealment and torpedoes, so try to use those to your advantage. You guns are weak, don’t get into situations where you would have to rely on these.

 

A gunboat will try to spot you and then use his superior guns to kill you. When you see a gunboat, try stay concealed by running or smoking, try to torp him. In doubt get out of there.

 

When you are already spotted, may as well fire your pop guns and try do a bit of damage. But keep in mind, when you fire and are spotted, your detection range will be equal to your gun range for 20 seconds. Sometimes it is wiser to no fire your guns.

 

It helps to know detection ranges of other DDs. In the start-up screen, check the line-up. This gives you an idea how many enemy DD’s have shorter or longer detection range, compared to you.

 

Many captains disable AA by pressing P. Many DD’s have bad AA anyway, so won’t do much damage, but AA increases detection for planes.

 

When you smoke, have an exit plan. Keep an eye on the smoke timer. Don’t be surprised by the enemy shooting you, because your smoke expired and you didn’t notice and you are out in the open. If you can, smoke in a location that allows you to run into the cover of a nearby island.

 

When you cap and there is an enemy DD in smoke, torp his smoke. If he fires his gun, the tracers give you an idea where in the smoke he sits.

 

If you have not done that yet, switch on “ships last known position” for the map. This is important for all ship types.

 

When you sit in smoke and you know of another DD, angle your boat in a way it isn’t broadside, makes it easier to avoid incoming torps.

 

When I started playing the game, I used modules and captain skills to improve the guns on IJN DD’s. But that’s the wrong way.

 

There are also modules, captain skills or flags. The wiki is a good starting point for finding recommendations.

 

In higher tiers, there is also hydro, radar or RDF to deal with, but I don’t want to make it too long.

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The XP system undervalues the contribution of IJN DDs to the game, the inherently unreliable nature of torpedoes means you must live with lower average damage and therefore lower XP, even if you get monster games when things break your way. For IJN DDs, it's not about the XP. It's a little easier in Domination mode, where you can earn XP from capping, but the basic point holds: you can expect lower average XP for these ships than USN DDs, or any other ship type for that matter.

Stay alive. Spot for your team. That's your single most important thing you can do to help your team win.

Understand the value of your ship as a potential threat. Just being in a sector prevents enemy BBs from pushing up, you never have to fire a shot.

Opportunities for big strikes increases later in the game when enemy ships can be left isolated and/or forced into risky positions.

Note that torps are more likely to hit when the enemy does not expect them. Predictive spreads, fired from stealth and lined up guessing where ships will travel to, are generally more successful than short range yolo runs aimed on the white line.

My advice however is to play for the win rather than the XP.

Edited by Rina_Pon

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Try to get onto the flank which is either pretty static, or the enemy ships are pushing into you. That makes it much more likely to get torpedo hits as your effective torpedo range is large - you can fire at ships outside your torpedo range if they are sailing towards you. 

Launching at ships who are sailing away from you is pretty much guaranteed to be wasted torps.  But spotting ships sailing away is great for assisted damage.

 

 

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I would recommend to drop IJN DD line as they are constantly being power creeped as well as a higher skill ceiling compared to other nations. The player needs to have a good awareness on his positioning, where is the positioning of radar ships, enemy DD's, can I push into a cap and so forth. Most of the IJN DD players I've met in game are probably some of the worst drivers you'll ever see as they will just sail around for good 10-15 minutes doing absolutely nothing while the enemy did their objectives.

Learn the basics of how to DD first in other nations (USN DD's are the most beginner friendly DD's to learn), before attempting to play IJN DD's.  

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4 hours ago, _AkaNo said:

Most of the IJN DD players I've met in game are probably some of the worst drivers you'll ever see as they will just sail around for good 10-15 minutes doing absolutely nothing while the enemy did their objectives.

It's never occured to you that there are things happening that you are unaware of, such as radar ships keeping them out of caps, another DD that keeps spotting them, a CA with radio location that turns to chase them whenever they approach, a wall of torpedos that forces them to turn away.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Brettr said:

It's never occured to you that there are things happening that you are unaware of, such as radar ships keeping them out of caps, another DD that keeps spotting them, a CA with radio location that turns to chase them whenever they approach, a wall of torpedoes that forces them to turn away.

Oh no worries, I've seen way more stuffs that you've ever imagined :Smile_hiding:

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55 minutes ago, Brettr said:

 

It's never occured to you that there are things happening that you are unaware of, such as radar ships keeping them out of caps, another DD that keeps spotting them, a CA with radio location that turns to chase them whenever they approach, a wall of torpedos that forces them to turn away.

 

 

 

Are you questioning Pants awareness on battles?

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19 hours ago, _AkaNo said:

Learn the basics of how to DD first in other nations (USN DD's are the most beginner friendly DD's to learn), before attempting to play IJN DD's. 

I’m not sure how playing other nations (which means playing gun boats or hybrids) prepares you for playing torp boats?

 

There are people who say players should play several hundred games of coop, before they play random. That’s just nonsense, you have to practice the game move you want to play to improve.

 

Same with ships or ship types.

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19 hours ago, _AkaNo said:

Most of the IJN DD players I've met in game are probably some of the worst drivers you'll ever see as they will just sail around for good 10-15 minutes doing absolutely nothing while the enemy did their objectives.

 

It’s fair enough to say that IJN DD’s require some skills and you see many players driving them not very well. In my experience, often the IJN DD’s are the first to die, trying to cap. Which would be the opposite of sailing around for 10-15 minutes doing nothing.

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22 hours ago, Rina_Pon said:

The XP system undervalues the contribution of IJN DDs to the game, the inherently unreliable nature of torpedoes means you must live with lower average damage and therefore lower XP, even if you get monster games when things break your way. For IJN DDs, it's not about the XP.

That’s a fair comment.

But you can turn that around. Because DD’s have small guns and unreliable torpedos, they cannot simply use guns/torpedos to earn XP.

They have to earn XP capping, defending caps and spotting. At least the new spotting mechanism gives the DD a share of the XP other ships earn causing damage based on the DD’s spotting.

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20 hours ago, Puggsley said:

Try to get onto the flank which is either pretty static, or the enemy ships are pushing into you. That makes it much more likely to get torpedo hits as your effective torpedo range is large - you can fire at ships outside your torpedo range if they are sailing towards you. 

Launching at ships who are sailing away from you is pretty much guaranteed to be wasted torps.  But spotting ships sailing away is great for assisted damage.

That’s very good advice. Maybe the OP needs a little more explanation.

Your highest chance to hit is when you launch torps from the target’s 10 or 2 o’clock. The relative speed of ship and torpedo add up, this means the torpedo will cross the distance from torpedo detection to ship faster = less time to evade.

If a ship coming towards you, at best one torp will hit, often all will miss. For your target these are the easiest to avoid. This happens often you sit in smoke and an enemy ship charges the smoke, often during capping. In this situation it pays to wait until the attacking ship is close, just outside detection range. The reason is that the distance between torps grows, when you fire when he is 6km or 8km away, he will fit comfortable between the torps. The longer you wait, the smaller the gap. You can close the gap between torps by staggering the 2nd launcher.  Or you keep the second launcher in reserve, you fire after you see how he manoevers to evade the first set of torps..

Actually, at these short distances, DD AP can penetrate even citadels many cruisers side on. So even after you launch all torps, there is still a “stinger”.

When you launch at a ship sailing away from you, you generally waste the torpedo. You can try if the enemy ship is maybe 2 or 3 km away. Consider that a ship sailing away from the torps will have much more time to react and evade. If the ship goes 30 knots and the torp 60 knots, the torp catches up with only 30 knots.

Anticipating what ships do I find difficult to explain. One typical situation that comes to mine is this: An experienced player will most often turn into the torpedos, when he spots them. Use the white arc to aim your first launcher. Wait 5 or 10 seconds, aim the second launcher where the  ship will after turning to evade. If a torp from the first launcher caused flooding, he is likely to use his repair consumable. If a torp from the second launcher causes flooding again, that may kill him.

Do you have other examples for “anticipating ship movements”?

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21 minutes ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

It’s fair enough to say that IJN DD’s require some skills and you see many players driving them not very well. In my experience, often the IJN DD’s are the first to die, trying to cap. Which would be the opposite of sailing around for 10-15 minutes doing nothing.

I'm open to being corrected here, but in my experience IJN DDs cannot contest caps unsupported. They can cap undefended points, they can torp into caps defended by the enemy team, they go in and spot for a supporting gunboat DD, but if there is an enemy gunboat DD pushing into the cap you can GTFO or you can die.

I'll readily admit to a lot of "10-15 minutes sailing around doing nothing" games. By "nothing" I mean launching ineffective torps, re-positioning from a receding flank to an enveloping one, spotting, guarding, escorting, smoking up friendly ships, or generally just trying to find an undefended opening in the enemy line where I can get close enough to the big boats to strike.

Some games it seems like every torp you launch strikes its target, others ... nothing works out. It's been repeated many times but nonetheless true: playing IJN DDs requires a very patient and selfless outlook. You can't be in it for the score. 

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1 minute ago, Rina_Pon said:

I'm open to being corrected here, but in my experience IJN DDs cannot contest caps unsupported.

Well, because many IJN DD’s try anyway, they are often the first to die.

Maybe they can contest against another IJN DD, or maybe they are lucky to torp a gunboat. But I agree that an IJN DD will need support to cap.

4 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

I'll readily admit to a lot of "10-15 minutes sailing around doing nothing" games. By "nothing" I mean launching ineffective torps, re-positioning from a receding flank to an enveloping one, spotting, guarding, escorting, smoking up friendly ships, or generally just trying to find an undefended opening in the enemy line where I can get close enough to the big boats to strike.

Well, if you have to explain “nothing” in a looong sentence, I guess it is something.

I guess what he meant is they do “nothing for him”, which is the sad attitude of many players towards DD’s

6 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

playing IJN DDs requires a very patient and selfless outlook. You can't be in it for the score.

I agree.

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4 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

I’m not sure how playing other nations (which means playing gun boats or hybrids) prepares you for playing torp boats?

There are people who say players should play several hundred games of coop, before they play random. That’s just nonsense, you have to practice the game more you want to play to improve.

 Same with ships or ship types.

You can play 5000-6000 games and still not knowing how to even DD properly or any other ships in general. The reason I'm suggesting a hybrid-gunboats is to save his sheer frustration of not be able to do anything in a game. I won't stop the OP if he insisted on playing IJN DD's as it was his choice, but I would tell the same to new/beginner players to play hybrids first before attempting to play IJN DD's. At least hybrid-gunboat DD's give u an option to defend yourself against other DD's who tried to hunt you down. 

The argument of play more games to improve is somewhat nonsense to me if the player themselves are not guided properly or even recommended properly

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I would just say that whenever you consider taking advice it is worthwhile to investigate the source of said advice. Pay more attention to the people who can back up their advice with results.

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It is impossible the taught someone how to play ijn torp boats in forum post. Simply because its main advantage is a very abstract concept "information". 

My advices is if you are already good at DD gameplay you probably won't choose ijn torp boat. If you suck at DD game play you definitely shouldn't play ijn torp boat. 

Verdict: Don't…just don't.

Edited by sunlo2013

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18 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

I’m not sure how playing other nations (which means playing gun boats or hybrids) prepares you for playing torp boats?

Because for some hybrids (eg. Fletcher or Gearing), they are just as a good at being a torpedo boat as IJN torp boats themselves.

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On 9/19/2018 at 6:28 AM, Rina_Pon said:

The XP system undervalues the contribution of IJN DDs to the game, the inherently unreliable nature of torpedoes means you must live with lower average damage and therefore lower XP, even if you get monster games when things break your way. For IJN DDs, it's not about the XP. It's a little easier in Domination mode, where you can earn XP from capping, but the basic point holds: you can expect lower average XP for these ships than USN DDs, or any other ship type for that matter.

XP system doesn't really undervalue teamplay contributions, you just need to do a lot.

This is a T8 DD in a T10 room, I got top exp, I myself did < 80k damage as far as I remember. This is also my personal spotting damage record (well I don't play CV).

spotting_record.thumb.JPG.1fa47d18e989fb7ba37792b199b85e11.JPG

 

On 9/18/2018 at 8:45 PM, KEN_609_defender said:

How to play Japanese DDs well? Why is it that I'm outgunned by other DDs and can't earn high base XP?

 

DD Gameplay is all about mindgames. You need to be able to read enemy movement even when you don't see them. You need to keep radar ship locations in mind and make sure they cannot catch you off guard.

MOST COMMON PROBLEM OF IJN DD PLAYERS: THEY DO NOT KNOW WHEN TO GIVE GROUND. (Well, sorry for caps, but this makes me mad). Its like I have to cap, it doesnt matter if I die. 

When you see overwhelming force pushing against you, or a DD that you cannot win without a lot of support, give him the ground, if you live to fight another day, you can always claim it back. IJN DDs are excellent for capitalizing on enemy mistakes. But as someone else said, no one will be able to teach you how to IJN DD in a forum, you need to watch a lot of games, play a lot of games, know about your natural enemies etc.

I'd also suggest gaining skills on Hybrid DD lines first. Once you know what you can do to IJN DDs, it will become much easier for you to play as one.

Edited by icy_phoenix

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19 hours ago, _AkaNo said:

The reason I'm suggesting a hybrid-gunboats is to save his sheer frustration of not be able to do anything in a game. I won't stop the OP if he insisted on playing IJN DD's as it was his choice, but I would tell the same to new/beginner players to play hybrids first before attempting to play IJN DD's. At least hybrid-gunboat DD's give u an option to defend yourself against other DD's who tried to hunt you down. 

Read the OP again, his question was “how do I play IJN DD’s well”. My reply was in that context.

20 hours ago, _AkaNo said:

The argument of play more games to improve is somewhat nonsense to me if the player themselves are not guided properly or even recommended properly

Good point, so lead by example and guide and recommend properly.

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2 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

Read the OP again, his question was “how do I play IJN DD’s well”. My reply was in that context.

You obviously can't read what I'm trying to suggest, don't you? or are you that ignorant about the fact that I don't recommend him to try IJN DD's due to factors that I've mentioned. Probably one of the reasons why I'm not bothered with this forums at all, will be my last post and I won't be replying anymore. 

Edited by _AkaNo

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15 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

Because for some hybrids (eg. Fletcher or Gearing), they are just as a good at being a torpedo boat as IJN torp boats themselves.

Yeah, that's fair enough. How relevant it is for the OP to play T9 and T10 DD's he has to say himself.

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