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Pete_the_pirate

Unwarranted penalties for AFK etc.

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Anybody else been penalised for something they haven't done? Today I got a notice I was penalised for 'unsporting conduct', quitting battle early and being AFK. The only times I have ever been AFK have been when the game crashed or froze and it has taken forever to force quit the app (because I couldn't quit to restart it), then go through all the start up screens to restart the game. Same goes for quitting a battle early, the only times I would have done that have been when the game has crashed and my ship was sunk while I was trying to restart and get back on (and even that hasn't happened recently).

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[SIF]
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You are not alone mate. It happens and aside from sending a ticket not much will come of it.

Z

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It's unfortunate but its a by-product of what the community wanted.  More action taken against AFK and passive play.  The game cannot distinguish between deliberate and accidental and that the price we pay for a stronger stance against the cheaters/botters and everyone else who ruins the game for us.

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1 hour ago, RalphTheTheatreCat said:

The game cannot distinguish between deliberate and accidental

^this, is what devs need to actually work on. well I was banned twice because no one can guarantee internet. on the other hand, this problem is less likely to get priority, because even you accidentally got disconnected youre still ruining the game for others. I punched my keyboard twice not because of ban but the disconnection ruins my camos and flags and stats as well :(

Edited by Labeat

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You have to make some sacrifices time to time. Cause SEA is full of AFK auto piloting degenerates.. some instances..

* Mom called for dinner

* Dad asked to do homework

* Wife needed a hug

* Urgent toilet break

* Running out of cyber cafe tokens

* Falling asleep over keyboard...

And many others...

As you can see, getting disconnected randomly is just a little percentage compared to actual offenders.

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1 hour ago, icy_phoenix said:

You have to make some sacrifices time to time. Cause SEA is full of AFK auto piloting degenerates.. some instances..

* Mom called for dinner

* Dad asked to do homework

* Wife needed a hug

* Urgent toilet break

* Running out of cyber cafe tokens

* Falling asleep over keyboard...

And many others...

As you can see, getting disconnected randomly is just a little percentage compared to actual offenders.

My favourite when playing with a married mate, "Oh no, I got wife aggro!"

Perhaps more valid for any of the MMO's I play on occasion, but still on topic I guess.

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13 hours ago, Pete_the_pirate said:

Anybody else been penalised for something they haven't done? Today I got a notice I was penalised for 'unsporting conduct', quitting battle early and being AFK. The only times I have ever been AFK have been when the game crashed or froze and it has taken forever to force quit the app (because I couldn't quit to restart it), then go through all the start up screens to restart the game. Same goes for quitting a battle early, the only times I would have done that have been when the game has crashed and my ship was sunk while I was trying to restart and get back on (and even that hasn't happened recently).

Probably going to curse myself here but...

I sometimes have a game crash as it loads into battle (all the ships looked crammed into one corner and the islands don't render properly or at all) and sometimes I have a crash in game.

Also, sometimes my net just plain drops (grrr Telstra) which is my end and not WG servers fault.

I always try to reboot and/or restart the game as fast as possible and get back in.

If I'm lucky, I'm not dead and just have to catch up.

But never from either crashing out or losing connection and re-joining have I ever received a penalty of this kind.

I also always play to the death, even if I am last ship and there's no hope of winning. I don't ever voluntarily exit to port for any reason, ever, unless dead of course.

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20 hours ago, Pete_the_pirate said:

The only times I have ever been AFK have been when the game crashed or froze and it has taken forever to force quit the app (because I couldn't quit to restart it), then go through all the start up screens to restart the game.

There seems to be a pattern related to time. If you log in again within a couple minutes, often you avoid the penalty. When you don’t to log in again or it takes too long, you receive the penalty.

You say it takes a long time for you to close and restart the app, maybe that’s why you receive the penalty when others don’t.

If you cannot quit the game by pressing ESC, try the Task Manager, that is often quicker when the game becomes unresponsive.

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2 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

If you cannot quit the game by pressing ESC, try the Task Manager, that is often quicker when the game becomes unresponsive.

Yeeup.

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I have crash logs to prove it was a true crash and being penalized. and I raised this to WG support and  being told that it was a just a policy which they could do nothing.

And the only thing WG support told me was to complete re-install the game. and use old version of video driver.

Based on the experience with WG support, There are many things reflected in the WG check log. They knew my OS was having problem. they knew the graphics driver and patching version, they knew which game I used what mod, they knew when the network was lost due to reason capture by the OS. they knew many things but only when WG need them to push back. and never admit their client has any problem. 

There are a lot of thing WG can do easily but they choose not to do.

 

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45 minutes ago, tsuenwan said:

I have crash logs to prove it was a true crash and being penalized. and I raised this to WG support and  being told that it was a just a policy which they could do nothing.

Look, I can see where you are coming from, but how much work do you expect WG to do, so they do not unjustly let a few players play two battles in pink?

45 minutes ago, tsuenwan said:

There are a lot of thing WG can do easily but they choose not to do.

From WG’s perspective, it may not be so “easy”.

At least you contacted WG, often you have people whine and complain on the forums and they have not even contacted WG.

I can understand you are unhappy with WG’s response, but I can understand that WG has to limit their efforts.

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3 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

There seems to be a pattern related to time. If you log in again within a couple minutes, often you avoid the penalty. When you don’t to log in again or it takes too long, you receive the penalty.

You say it takes a long time for you to close and restart the app, maybe that’s why you receive the penalty when others don’t.

If you cannot quit the game by pressing ESC, try the Task Manager, that is often quicker when the game becomes unresponsive.

When you say 'task manager' I presume that is in Windows, not in WOWS itself. My only option on a Mac when it freezes and won't quit is to force quit and go through all the tiresome start up screens again (maybe because Mac OS is not fully supported). Actually  I don't have any objection to getting warnings if the game itself has crashed, the thing that irritated me recently and made me post originally was the fact that I was penalised for quitting a battle early and I had not quit any battle early for any reason (my fault or game crash) within the past few months. Anyway it's no big deal, just had to be pink for a few battles then back to normal. Was just wondering if anybody else had had that happen.

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48 minutes ago, Pete_the_pirate said:

When you say 'task manager' I presume that is in Windows, not in WOWS itself.

Yes.

48 minutes ago, Pete_the_pirate said:

My only option on a Mac when it freezes and won't quit is to force quit and go through all the tiresome start up screens again (maybe because Mac OS is not fully supported).

Yeah, fair enough. Didn't know it was a Mac.

 

49 minutes ago, Pete_the_pirate said:

Anyway it's no big deal, just had to be pink for a few battles then back to normal. Was just wondering if anybody else had had that happen.

Hmmm, generally you get the warnings after the game/computer/internet connection dropped out.

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1 hour ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

Look, I can see where you are coming from, but how much work do you expect WG to do, so they do not unjustly let a few players play two battles in pink?

From WG’s perspective, it may not be so “easy”.

At least you contacted WG, often you have people whine and complain on the forums and they have not even contacted WG.

I can understand you are unhappy with WG’s response, but I can understand that WG has to limit their efforts.

I was just talking about there could be so many means to find out those genuinely crashes. either by the game client, or through appeal

and Do you know it is a norm this days for softwares report problem back with a click of a button. 

And The WOWS client itself did detected the crash and repair itself.

I can accept the immediate pink status. and all I asked was if they can do anything in the future, but all their "support" effort were focusing on finding a fault in my machine.

and for all the random crashing problems (with penalty or not) I reported back to WG, and No matter what symptoms I reported and they were all my machines fault. 

 

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Task manager does not crash programs. It terminate the execution of the problem by issue an exit signal to the program. it will left traces of such a call in the system log.

On Unix machine you can kill a program or Kill -9 a program. But again it is just a system call to the program to exist. It will also left traces of such a call the system log.

OTOH. when the OS or the program crashed. It will left different traces in the respective log.

It is ACTUALLY HARD to imitate a real crash with system tools.

Shutting down a machine or switch off a machine will left distinguish signatures can be easily tracked

and lost of WiFi, unplugging of cables are all detectable by automatic plug-play feature in the OS.

There are so many easy thing they can do to find out what happened to the program and the network.

Yet they choose to implement the penalty in-discriminatory without even any simple trying to distinguish the system problem with the real AFKs.

 

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15 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

You have to make some sacrifices time to time. Cause SEA is full of AFK auto piloting degenerates.. some instances..

* Mom called for dinner

* Dad asked to do homework

* Wife needed a hug

* Urgent toilet break

* Running out of cyber cafe tokens

* Falling asleep over keyboard...

And many others...

As you can see, getting disconnected randomly is just a little percentage compared to actual offenders.

Heh, you can add playing Kancolle to that list. I usually alt-tab to play Kancolle while WoWs is finding a match, then get too absorbed and didn't realise that the match has started and I had been AFK in spawn for a few minutes. :Smile_hiding:

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3 hours ago, RalphTheTheatreCat said:

What could they possibly do with your crash logs.  By the time they have looked at them you are no longer pink.   They cant turn back time and unpink you again

LOL. Go back in time, repink him and then...

 

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8 hours ago, Max_Battle said:

LOL. Go back in time, repink him and then...

.....

WOWS game client immediately found the problem right after I restarted it. that was les than 15mins. what turn back time?

Actually I don't give a damn about WOWS crash and the pink status if I didn't spent money on flags and exp boost mission. and all WG support can do was just to blame my machine?  

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41 minutes ago, tsuenwan said:

Actually I don't give a damn about WOWS crash and the pink status if I didn't spent money on flags and exp boost mission. and all WG support can do was just to blame my machine?

It WAS your machine, wasn't it? Game didn't crash in mine, or thousand others...... 

I am a software engineer, and crashes and memory leaks aren't instantly fixable by one crash log. They need time to go through the code, measure lot of statistics like memory overhead, heap memory, stack memory, blocks of code leading to memory leak etc. And in many cases, this happen due to external properties, like new graphics driver for which the engine isn't yet optimized for, or other programs eating up your allotted memory etc.

While it was a good move to send them the crash log as feedback, you may need to wait for the next patch to get actual fixes when there is really a problem, which, as you can read in patch notes time to time.

What could the supports do? Give you flags back? What about your team? You affected 11 others (imagining it was advantage for the 12 from enemy team), so WG should give them their flags and stuffs back too, right? How realistic does that sound to you good sir? And no, don't get me wrong, I am not defending WG by any means, I just don't think they could do any better at that given moment. What do you get from microsoft when you are in the middle of work and suddenly a blue screen appear?

Edited by icy_phoenix

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58 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

.., you may need to wait for the next patch to get actual fixes when there is really a problem, ......

WG support could have responded like this (with a when) and it is perfectly fine. That is more like a professional response. 

Actually, I have never made demand to reset my pink status, nor asked my flag back. but I am really disappointed with WG support's response, I am not happy they blamed direct X 11, static skin mods,   and later I found out it was their typical answers to whatever crash symptoms.

And a genuine crash is a genuine crash, and in many cases they can be distinguish technically from those suspect inactivity. and please stop stop telling people it is all impossible for a decent software company to do so.

 

 

Edited by tsuenwan

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On 9/17/2018 at 6:37 PM, tsuenwan said:

Look, I can see where you are coming from, but how much work do you expect WG to do, so they do not unjustly let a few players play two battles in pink?

From WG’s perspective, it may not be so “easy”.

At least you contacted WG, often you have people whine and complain on the forums and they have not even contacted WG.

I can understand you are unhappy with WG’s response, but I can understand that WG has to limit their efforts.

Look, when it happened to me, I was quite upset and wrote to WG support pretty much what you say.

 

Probably a lot of people did it.

 

So maybe you and I think it is easy to improve the automatic process, but it isn’t. And a manual process just isn't feasible.

 

Appeal? Well, maybe if you have been banned to play coop for 3 months. But I never heard that it came to that.

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2 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

Look, when it happened to me, I was quite upset and wrote to WG support pretty much what you say.

 

Probably a lot of people did it.

 

So maybe you and I think it is easy to improve the automatic process, but it isn’t. And a manual process just isn't feasible.

 

Appeal? Well, maybe if you have been banned to play coop for 3 months. But I never heard that it came to that.

I was only asking if WG can do anything  in the future to improve this situation. What this AFK penalty policy do is  actually presumption of all guilty without allowing any prove of innocence? and I do not believe this is a necessary evil.

And Technically, I know WOWS was built on Bigworld Game Engine, which has a lot of error tracking and network status monitoring capabilities build in.  At least it is a good start, although it may not be  the only mean.

Talking about efforts, WG support could have spent weeks tried to "fix" my machine. yet they never managed  to reproduce even one of my reported crashes. and I am not convinced what they were really fixing anything there, except me.

 

 

Edited by tsuenwan

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4 hours ago, tsuenwan said:

And Technically, I know WOWS was built on Bigworld Game Engine, which has a lot of error tracking and network status monitoring capabilities build in.  At least it is a good start, although it may not be  the only mean

This is it !!! We need a new Engine, like WoT got from 1.0

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