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Just a thought.  It's great when we get the free Premium Account (PA) as a reward, but I was wondering what others think about this - just asking.  When it says we have 24 hours of free PA (could be any amount of time), in reality all we get to use is the time we have playing the game, which means that unless we play for 24 hours we lose out, so we may only use say, 8 hours of the 24 we have been given free. That's okay.  But when we pay for PA, wouldn't it be really honourable and ethical of WoW if we actually got the full 24 hours?  After all, when I pay for a days worth shouldn't I get a days worth?  Sometimes I can't get to the computer to play the game and can only use an evenings worth of time, possibly 4/5 hours, and by the time I get back to the game the next day, all I have left is maybe a few minutes.  I suppose this is the same for all players (except those who play around the clock!).  What do you think?  

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I play another game that stacks your free premium days and then lets you load them when you want.  Certainly a selling point for players that use premium casually.   But it still ticks out the time whether you are playing or not.  Essentially this is a F2P game and they money is made by transactions such as purchases of premium time.  

Its unrealistic to think that they would chance it so your time is only counted when you play.   An example is I only play for short stints and may only play 5-6 games in a row before logging off and doing something else.  I might play for 3 hours.   That would alter my premium time out from 490 days to about 3921 days if it only counted when I play.  Imagine the financial ramifications for WG they were to implement this  

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Well, from a customer's point of view, I'd have to agree with you. But I guess from marketing standpoint, you pay knowing how much you can actually consume. So you pay more or less based on consumption, even though on paper it's same.

So I do next best thing.. I never buy premium time.

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Yeah it's pretty annoying, since you can have problems irl such as important tasks that get assigned, power/internet outages, busy with other commitments etc.

 

I prefer the boosters in a certain other game that I used to play, where your boosters are counted precisely to the second, and only when you are deployed in battle, it doesn't even tick when you are modifying loadout in the menu. 

 

Actually why not have something like that, boosters like XP bonus or credit bonus we can buy (That isn't flags, I know we have flags for that) and activate for say, a certain number of battles, for times where you wanna stack your ship with performance flags so you have no room for economic flags (e.g. Ranked, Clan Battles) I'd much rather have that than premium time since I know I will waste about 80% of the premium time

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Thanks guys, I think you feel as I do.  Wish there was a better system but after all it's worth money to them if it's changed.  It's not really ethical, but what can you do about that - not much.  Thanks again for the replies much appreciated.  

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On 9/4/2018 at 10:10 PM, brokentooth said:

wouldn't it be really honourable and ethical of WoW if we actually got the full 24 hours? 

So for 365 days premium account you would want 8760 hours playtime. Playing 2 hours every day means 12 years of Premium Account. Yeah, I like that!

 Look, you have your premium account for 24 hours, how long you play is up to you. If you get tired after 4 or 5 hours does not mean WG is not “honourable and ethical”. That just means you have no stamina.

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Hello EalphTheTheatreCat - I take it you're upset because I'm bringing something you don't like to the fore?  When they say that you have XP for a 24hours block, that is your interpretation, not the laws.  In other words it can be interpreted in a number of ways, and you're just an uninformed one.  If I went to a shop and brought an ice cream, I expect to get what I paid for - as is.  If I buy a newspaper I don't expect to get half a newspaper because I can't read it all at one go.  It is, in my view, unethical to be told that you have 24hours of play and that is not what you get, when you pay for the 24 hours.  You are buying a time period, not a part of 24hours but 24hours, I believe that we should get the full 24 hours.  It doesn't say anything about a 'block,' and even if it did, because they have said it is so still makes it unethical, if I am not getting what I paid for.  In regards to the law, I can interpret anything the way I like, but the law is the law and can only be interpreted by that law.  And, by the way, being unethical doesn't necessarily mean you're breaking the law, it means you can be making money by means that a person or organisation of integrity wouldn't do.  It is also about character, and just as Google  and FaceBook who have recently been hauled over the coals, have proven themselves to be unethical, if people can get away with it they generally do. 

PeterMoe1963 - lol - I love it!  Sounds pretty ridiculous doesn't it, and a good point.  Maybe if they put a different time period on it.  For instance you pay the same price for 24hours, but you get 8 hours of playing time, or something like that?  That means 4x2hour periods, or it can be used in one block of 8 hours.  There are a number of ways it can be done, rather than losing the full 24hours.  As for stamina, you're probably right there, but I disagree re: being unethical.  What generally happens for me is that after playing maybe 5 hours, that's when I get the 24hours reward!  But when I pay, I think it's quite different.  I appreciate your reply.  Thanks. 

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11 hours ago, brokentooth said:

Hello EalphTheTheatreCat - I take it you're upset because I'm bringing something you don't like to the fore?

PeterMoe1963 - Maybe if they put a different time period on it.

 

Why do you think Ralph is upset? He just tries to answer your point.

WG use the term 24 hours correctly. You don’t. That means you should change your understanding, not WG their wording.

Maybe the problem is that English isn’t your first language, maybe you spend too much time playing computer games, rather than in the real world, I don’t know.

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Hi PeterMoe1063 - thanks for your reply.  I assumed Ralph was upset in the same way I assume you are.  First, I haven't made any personal comments about him except to say 'I take it,' which in English, refers to the possibility that he's upset, as you have made personal comments about me, which shows that you're possibly agitated that I answered him the way I did (English 101).  Second, English is my first language and if you cannot tell that by my replies, it assumes that your defending Ralph, which is okay, clearly he's either a friend, or you're someone who defends WG no matter.   Your assumptions about me are unfortunate.  I think it would be appropriate to stick to the subject, if you can.  And Peter, I refer you to my reply to you.  If I an wrong about Ralph being possibly upset, I think he can answer for himself, which no doubt, because of this reply, he might. 

All I have done is put before this forum the fact that when someone pays for something, that person should expect to get what is paid for.  If WoW doesn't want to do that then that's their choice.  It is not only my view, but I checked it out since this reply, and in the view of a friend of mine who is an ethicist, WG can be considered a little unethical in not giving a person what they paid for (as you would know with ethical issues, everyone has a different opinion).  As I said, an ethical organisation with integrity stares clear of being in such a position.  WoW having its headquarters in Russia means that they do not have to go by the standards set in any other country.  Now, I'm not saying that because they are in Russia that, that's the reason why, all I'm saying is that different countries and different social conditions have different standards.  Again, thank you for the reply to my original question - you made me laugh when you put it in terms of 8760 hours of play.  There are ways around the issue, but I think they will fall on deaf ears. 

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On 9/11/2018 at 4:52 PM, brokentooth said:

You are buying a time period, not a part of 24hours but 24hours, I believe that we should get the full 24 hours.

I'm sorry but you answered your own question here. As you aren't buying parts of the 24 hours, you can't really say, for example, you wanna play 8+8+8 hours for three days with premium account cause that would mean you bought 3 parts of 24 hours separately.

You do get the full 24 hours, aka, a day, without any break.

So, as I said earlier, as a customer I'd love the way you wanted it to be, but is WG being unethical? I don't think so. The prices are set after a lot of market analysis, and you know what you are getting. If it says 2 days, it means 2 days, they didn't say a total play time of 48 hours.

Last but not least, we follow strict rules in Newcomer's Zone to respect each other no matter what. @RalphTheTheatreCat and @PeterMoe1963 know that and were simply answering your questions, or expressing their opinion regarding the topic. There is no need to judge if they were getting upset, or defending WG, or defending each other at all.

Good luck!

Edited by icy_phoenix

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Thank you FenrirApalis -  Can't agree with you more.  At least you appear to be aware of where I am coming from.   I like your idea about boosting XP, it's a good one and activate for a certain number of games. 

icy-phoenix, Of course I answered my question, I also gave an alternative possibility 2+2+2+2 hours =8 hours rather than 24hrs premium which I may only play for maybe 5hrs.  I take it you play a full day at a time ("you get the full 24 hours, aka, a day, without a break) - I don't do that, I have important things to do.  There is a difference between market research and ethics.  I don't think you know where I am coming from - see FenrirApalis and his answer and maybe you will understand.  Market research indicates to WoW where they can make money - either ethically or unethically - if you don't get this then I can't help you understand what I am saying.  I believe they could be acting unethically in that when I pay for something I expect to get what I paid for - if you don't think that's true, then maybe this will help. The next time you go and get milk you find out the bottle is only half full of milk, and is the only one left.  The store owner will still make a market research value of the full bottle of milk if you pay the full price, but you are being short-changed. He is acting unethically because knowing the bottle is half full he still charges the full amount (101 ethics). Although not a good example, I hope you get the idea. 

 

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1 hour ago, brokentooth said:

I can't help you understand what I am saying.  I believe they could be acting unethically in that when I pay for something I expect to get what I paid for - if you don't think that's true, then maybe this will help. The next time you go and get milk you find out the bottle is only half full of milk, and is the only one left.  The store owner will still make a market research value of the full bottle of milk if you pay the full price, but you are being short-changed. He is acting unethically because knowing the bottle is half full he still charges the full amount (101 ethics). Although not a good example, I hope you get the idea. 

You are right, you can't. Not with this example. I will be mad if I find out later on if the can of milk was half full when I paid the price of full knowing that, please note the word "knowing", I would be getting a can full.

In wows, you buy 24 hours of premium time "knowing" that you may only be playing, let's say, 5 hours at most. You could say, the price is steep, but could you say you have been unethically baited to get the deal? Some people buy 24 hours premium time knowing they will be playing for 18 hours... they will say the price is pretty ok. Let me fix your example for you. You can only drink 500ML of milk, but you bought a 5 Litre can. And now you opened the can, the rest will be wasted. Now you want to pay the shopkeeper the price of 500ML. Do you see where this is going? Or take a bag of chips. You know it's mostly AIR. Do you measure the volume first, then measure the actual volume of chips, lets say, 10%, and then proceed to pay 10% of the price? No, cause you already know what you are buying.

If you have accidentally bought premium time and finally found out that you have been unethically lured to take the offer, you can make a complaint to customer care. But I am sorry that I cannot explain it any better to you since you do not seem to see outside of your own thoughts. And sorry for bad English, not my first (or even 2nd) language.

Good luck mate!

Edited by icy_phoenix

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Hi icy-phoenix.  I'm amazed, all I asked was a question that I believe could improve the game, and I get a response from someone who not only sounds offended but has taken my replies to the absurd degree. "Accidentally bought premium...unethically lured to take the offer" heaven knows where your going with this.  My question evolved to this - in a nutshell, why not divide the cost into 4 parts of 2 hours when paying for premium - simple, since what we pay for we do not get, which I believe is unethical, and in trying to explain things your have taken offense.  I get what you are saying, but in your answers to my question, and knowing what WoW has already said about this issue (and you are saying), the idea is I'm asking the forum to look circumspectly and openly at what I am asking and to offer other suggestions if they have any - as FenrirApalis has done above.  One thing is for sure though, this forum is not the place to discuss such issues, yet WoW themselves, Marcel Wyss told me that this was the place to discuss things.  For your information he, and a few others suggested this, and as you know these are the people who reply to our tickets. 

I wonder if others are being put off the game because of such replies, a total misunderstanding of the issues raised, frustrated answers, inability to cope with criticism and the angst that goes with them?  Or, how many others have ideas for WoW but are afraid to mention them because of such replies as you have given me?  You are right about one thing, I will go back to WoW and ask them to read all this.  Are you a moderator?  I understand your viewpoint - it's the standard WoW position - great, but what you don't appear to get is that I'm not trashing you or WoW, simply asking questions.  If you cannot see what others are saying, including myself, and if you think we don't understand you, it's probably not about your English - which is very good, it's more about how you are taking the question and handling it. 

I note that the number of players on WoW Asian server fluctuates between 9/10k, and it remains about the same and has done so for a long time.  At the same time I know of a number of people who have left the game for specific reasons.  It is interesting that it appears the number of players always fluctuates around the same figure. I assume that almost as many people are joining as going from WoW (give or take the number of players on the server at one time, which is a variable).  What would happen if WoW considered ideas outside of their envelop - and yours - from players?  I take it this is already supposed to be happening. But, I can also assume that stymied questions, as can be seen in this forum and my question, tend to make players take offense and leave.  This would also explain why WoW is trying to meet the 1,000,000 mark, a push to increase the number of players.  If I were WoW, I would do the same. 

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It will raise other issues.
Issue for the game :
Currently premium time is 1 USD a day(cheaper if you buy a longer time),that is already very generous.Premium time is not even required to enjoy the game at all. I know a lot of players that don't buy premium time and are doing very well.Game economic was designed so that one player cannot play top tier ship only so that mid and low tier wouldn't be so empty that queue time is too long or cant even find a game.You are supposed to lose credit on average when you play high tier by design. Premium time with the credit boost is something that will remove this limitation, it is not meant to be justifiable for every player.You can already see it being a problem with so many players able to spam tier X ,tier 8 ships are suffering because they are put in tier X matchmaking most of the time.
Issue for individual players:

It will give players a sense of "gambling" premium time away each time they press Battle! button. More invested into each match ,more frustration when it is a bad match.Making the community more toxic. Here are some events i can see happening :

  • player saying"I am not playing today anymore ,not wasting my premium time"
  • rushing to die just because the game is not advantageous with ship lineup to save premium time.
  • player telling  team to lose faster to not waste his/her premium time

Think of it as a subscription ,not buying a in-game recourse to spend.It's like subscribing to TV service.If it is charged by watch-time, not only is it a bad for the company since it is very hard to have an expectation of how much they make, wouldn't it also put a little stress on simply watching TV?

Edited by _buki

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Brokentooth.

I'm not sure where you get the impression where anyone in this thread is offended?   In my first post I even cited and example of another game that does exactly what you suggest and merely said WG wont follow your idea.

Icy merely gave you advice on how to contact support if you feel that you have been dealt with unfairly in his last post.  he was even agreeing with your example. In fact at no point has your idea been "trashed" but instead its only been pointed out that wg stand to lose a lot of money by changing (as much as we would all like our premium time to count when we play).

There is no doubt all players would love your idea implemented.    We have merely said it wont happen based on all of our own personal experiences with not only this game but other games as well.  I agree with the game itself really has plateaued at about 10k players and yes, a variety of reasons would cause it, but WOWS is a niche market and its hard to compare it to WoW when you are talking about player numbers 

 

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Hello Buki, great points.  I was unaware of spamming at tier X with tier VIII ships suffering - that has explained a few of the issues I have faced, and answers a query in my first post - thank you.  Also, your explanation regards the issues with players makes sense, although the issues describing what individual players might do is, in fact, already happening.  For instance, a friend of mine said he would rush into battle and die because it gave him more points, and going through ships and games as fast as possible to gain the points, which often meant huge amounts of time on the game and suffering for the consequence (personally that is).  I am aware that others do this as well.  This aside, you have put into context for me the loss of credits at higher tiers as well, something I was going to question, but no need to now.

Ralph, how the answers were written and the cryptic responses to simple questions needs to be noted.  Let me repeat I love the game.  I take your point about personal experience based on all other gamers as well, and from the gathered information decisions are made, thank you.  And your point about it being hard to compare when we talk about player numbers is a good one, as I mentioned in my post, it is a variable. 

So, I take it from these responses that, although it would be a good idea, it's not practical to do and it would be unfair to other players.  Okay, that's good.  Thanks again - this is how I expected this forum to be, rather than taking sides and misunderstandings.  Regards to all

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On 9/12/2018 at 1:34 PM, brokentooth said:

I assumed Ralph was upset in the same way I assume you are.

I am not/was not upset, I disagree. And because I'm not a native speaker myself, I even looked up "upset" in the dictionary. No, I'm not upset.

I believe everything that can be said about the OP has been said.

So in conclusion, I hope you can accept what people told you was in the spirit of trying to help you and that we can all walk out here as friends.

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