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Rina_Pon

Reconsidering the 155mm Mogami

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I have 55% WR in both Myoko and Ibuki, but struggle with a 50% WR in my 155 mm Mogami build. I've come to the recent conclusion that it's not about adapting to the different playstyle. I did adapt, eventually, and the ship is certainly strong at what it does. The problem is this build configuration struggles to impact the outcome of battles, and I've had to reassess my view of how to most effectively "Mogami" in consequence.

Let me explain. The key is to everything is IHFE. Without IHFE your HE shells shatter on 26 mm armor and up. To be blunt, facing T8, T9, and T10 ships you need it. With IHFE taking up 4 captain skill points you won't be able to take concealment expert (CE) until you have a 14 point captain, and without CE your engagement distances end up too far away to sink DDs and fast cruisers early in the game. i.e. you lose impact.

I started my Mogami grind with a 10 point captain, and took IHFE and slotted the double rudder shift mods as being the recommended kiting build. Once you get the hang of kiting, and shooting over islands, and supporting friendly BBs from behind, you can do devastating damage late game farming battleships and heavy cruisers. The problem is by that point the outcome of the game has typically already been decided.

If I was to do it over I would start out with the 203 mm concealment build and run that until I got a 14 point captain, then take IHFE as my second 4 point skill and re-equip the 155 mm guns. Maybe take the second rudder shift mod, maybe keep the concealment mod. Full stealth Mogami with IHFE 155mm has, ah, possibilities I would be very interested in exploring.

At the moment I'm stuck on a 12 point going-on-13 point captain, and to be frank the kiting build is a real struggle. I hate having to wait until my team wins (or loses...) the game for me before I can make any meaningful damage contribution.

That's my conclusion anyway: don't run 155 mm build without at least a 14 point captain. Even then, the 155 mm guns are more about fun and variety than practical advantage. Whatever is gained in DPM is offset by both the weaker pen values, especially AP, and by those extra 4 captain skills you get back from not having to take IHFE that by 14 points you can slot into such quality of life perks as expert loader, direction center, and adrenaline rush...

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ah yes, IFHE.... even my 203mm saint louise need IFHE. but i dont think IFHE can increase damage so easily because damage saturation

 

203mm, 118 hit > 39K damage, 20K come from 5 fires, 62 shell hit the rest is shattered.

62 shell hit normally, how the heck i got 19K damage?

after a lot of analysis, i am startin to think that Fire is the best wae to kill BB instead rely on HE damage.

 

now a question arise, do shattered shell have the same fire chance as normal pen?

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Tbh Mogami has no chance of early game influence unless it's a super DD heavy game and it's top tier. High tier cruiser AP punish it too hard (speaking from the punishing side, legit my favorite ship to punish) and it really has to stay at max range and shoot and dodge and hope RNG doesn't send you back to port lol.

 

Also answering sharkbait, yes shattered shells still have the same fire chance. Also if 203 isn't penning, you are aiming at the wrong places

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53 minutes ago, FenrirApalis said:

Tbh Mogami has no chance of early game influence unless it's a super DD heavy game and it's top tier. High tier cruiser AP punish it too hard (speaking from the punishing side, legit my favorite ship to punish) and it really has to stay at max range and shoot and dodge and hope RNG doesn't send you back to port lol.

^^This. And yes, Mogami is deliciously squishy so I totally get where you are coming from here.

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1 hour ago, Skarhabek said:

now a question arise, do shattered shell have the same fire chance as normal pen?

Yes, starting fires dont have to do anything with HE shell penning or shattering. Fires start on contact irrespective of shell shatter or pen. 

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4 hours ago, FenrirApalis said:

Tbh Mogami has no chance of early game influence unless it's a super DD heavy game and it's top tier. High tier cruiser AP punish it too hard (speaking from the punishing side, legit my favorite ship to punish) and it really has to stay at max range and shoot and dodge and hope RNG doesn't send you back to port lol.

 

Also answering sharkbait, yes shattered shells still have the same fire chance. Also if 203 isn't penning, you are aiming at the wrong places

i am aiming at the right place, the problem is not every shell landed on desired location. for example 3 shell may normal pen, but there is 2 shatter and the rest is missed. no matter how gud your aim, you cannt expect every shell to land correctly, that is why ~30% shell hit ratio seems decent. and i am sniping from 20km with cruiser.... 

 

3 hours ago, Anger_Lehner said:

Yes, starting fires dont have to do anything with HE shell penning or shattering. Fires start on contact irrespective of shell shatter or pen. 

do every part of sheep have the same fire chance?

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1 hour ago, Skarhabek said:

and i am sniping from 20km with cruiser....

I can't put my finger on it but... something is really wrong with that statement...

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1 hour ago, Skarhabek said:

do every part of sheep have the same fire chance?

From my experience, It depends on the nations. I have played some European and Japanese BBs and they are quite fragile against fire. American however, are quite hard to set on fire. Because their auxiliary rooms are protected with armor. When auxiliary room are hit by HE shell, it will create small explosion and thus creating fire.

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I'll admit, Everytime I see a mogami, I think of food. That apart, the most efficient build for mogami, as I have seen from several experts AREN'T full concealment build. They use CE on captain, sure, but not the concealment upgrade. Instead, they use RSM3 for DD level ruddershift.

True, you would not be able to stealth torp, but if you play a cruiser for torping... You are playing it wrong.

I'd say, 203 is definitely not that terrible, you have better gun angles IIRC. The dpm is also somewhat similar.

If you have plans to take this captain to higher tiers, do not bother with 155 specific builds. Just finish the grind and get ibuki. Basically slightly better Mogami 203 with heal and t9 slot.

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9 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

I'll admit, Everytime I see a mogami, I think of food. That apart, the most efficient build for mogami, as I have seen from several experts AREN'T full concealment build. They use CE on captain, sure, but not the concealment upgrade. Instead, they use RSM3 for DD level ruddershift.

CE + RSM3 is most likely the ideal mix for 155 mm I agree, but since IHFE is also necessary that only becomes do-able with a 14 point captain since playing the 155 mm build without CE is near-unworkable.

Below 14 points, running 203mm and full concealment as Myoko++ is what I'd recommend.

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14 hours ago, LonerPrime said:

I can't put my finger on it but... something is really wrong with that statement...

most of enemy BB at higher tier is really camping in the back. enemy ship spotted at 11km is rarely seen.... and just ded less than 3 min. so blame enemy who camping from 18km~20km.

the french cruiser is actualy a gud sniper, long range gun with decent dispersion.

 

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17 hours ago, Skarhabek said:

i am aiming at the right place, the problem is not every shell landed on desired location. for example 3 shell may normal pen, but there is 2 shatter and the rest is missed. no matter how gud your aim, you cannt expect every shell to land correctly, that is why ~30% shell hit ratio seems decent. and i am sniping from 20km with cruiser.... 

 

do every part of sheep have the same fire chance?

 

Spamming from 20km

 

You deserve low damage

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7 hours ago, Rina_Pon said:

CE + RSM3 is most likely the ideal mix for 155 mm I agree, but since IHFE is also necessary that only becomes do-able with a 14 point captain since playing the 155 mm build without CE is near-unworkable.

Below 14 points, running 203mm and full concealment as Myoko++ is what I'd recommend.

I still think RSM3 is better choice on Mogami (instead of full concealment) even with 203mm (and Hipper as well). Mogami isn't really the brawler type, so dodging shells is more important than maintaining high concealment all the time.

About not having IFHE, if you use DE and two fire signals, you still can make up for the lack of alpha damage cause of low penetration with fire damage. Its not like IFHE will allow you to penetrate everything. You just need to find out what you can pen and you can't (and where, for bigger ships). Im sure you still can easily break 100k even without IFHE by carefully positioning ans setting a lot of fire.

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On 8/29/2018 at 1:33 PM, Skarhabek said:

do every part of sheep have the same fire chance?

Yes, as long as you are hitting the deck/superstructure. You cant set fires to broadside armor/turret armor or turrets themselves or torpedo tubes and so forth. 

However, ships of higher tier have a better fire resistance as compared to ships of lower tiers (link below). Example a T1 ship is almost twice as likely to catch fire than a T10 ship, when subjected under the same rate of fire from same shells. This resistance can increased by specking into Fire Prevention commander skill and slotting DCSM1 in the slot 2 upgrade. 

And, IMO setting fires on ships is really not dependent on nations of the ship being set on fire. Its more dependent on the shell characteristics and RoF of the ship with which you fire and obviously RNG.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Fire

Edited by Anger_Lehner

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3 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

I still think RSM3 is better choice on Mogami (instead of full concealment) even with 203mm (and Hipper as well). Mogami isn't really the brawler type, so dodging shells is more important than maintaining high concealment all the time.

About not having IFHE, if you use DE and two fire signals, you still can make up for the lack of alpha damage cause of low penetration with fire damage. Its not like IFHE will allow you to penetrate everything. You just need to find out what you can pen and you can't (and where, for bigger ships). Im sure you still can easily break 100k even without IFHE by carefully positioning ans setting a lot of fire.

I re-spec'd my Mogami and 13 point captain, fitting the 203mm guns, RSM3, PT-EM-DE-CE and EL and AR with the last 3 points.

Ignoring "why am I playing this ship and not the Atago" for a moment, this build feels really strong. The guns hit hard, start lots of fires, and the concealment and maneuverability are in that window where neither feels like a liability.

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