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PUB_AUS_ARMY

idea,s for new german BB

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Hi all just asking i am just trying to find out if any 1 else would love to see the german battle ships the H39 H42 and the H44 never built but was in the plans for Hitlers mega ships i know that thay where never made but it would not be the 1st time wargaming have put in a ship or tank that was a paper plan i would love to see the H44 in all her glory in world of warships do to of her massive size at 155,000 tons 400 plus meters long and main guns of 500 mm in caliber just a ship that is impressive in her own right

 

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@PUB_AUS_ARMYUmm no. Why? because H44 is too big for some reason. By far The biggest ship in this game is the grosser kurfurst. And Wargaming promise not to implement a ship that has bigger guns than Yamato. If this will be added then where it will be placed? Tier 11? 12? . However there is one prototype of her which is H 39. In the game, it's called Friederich Der Grosse. and she has pretty good reputation in tier 9.  If the H 44 will be put in the battle, she could potentially destroy any ships with ease. Moreover she will be the largest ship in the game with the widest turn circle and the longest detection range.

 The grosser kurfurst itself is already have 105.000's HP which is insane. Now that coupled with citadel that is so hard to hit. And one more. Bigger ships has difficulties dodging torpedoes due to its massive size and wide turning circle. And remember German BBs has terrible torpedo protection. I hope this will clear up.

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500mm?!?..

Welp, WG have already promised that 460mm is the largest calibre they're going with. :)

Also, bigger than GK? 50km concealment! :p

Edited by SecretIdentity

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The design itself wasn't even remotely practical. Can you even keep something like that floating as one rigid body on water surface? Tension will rip the whole thing apart unless it's super light in density.

Besides, tier 10 is what we have now as top. We need a tier 15 for H44.

That being said, devs could design it as a boss ship in scenarios.

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1 hour ago, Anger_Lehner said:

WG has to introduce a new tier to introduce this sheep. 

No they didn't

55 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

The design itself wasn't even remotely practical. Can you even keep something like that floating as one rigid body on water surface? Tension will rip the whole thing apart unless it's super light in density.

Besides, tier 10 is what we have now as top. We need a tier 15 for H44.

That being said, devs could design it as a boss ship in scenarios.

Tier 15? yeah I think it would fit but WG never extend a tech tree until that far.

And about the boss ship. I think it would fit to tier 10 scenario. So it's like a 'super Bismarck'

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2 hours ago, mr_glitchy_R said:

And about the boss ship. I think it would fit to tier 10 scenario. So it's like a 'super Bismarck'

More like a Super GK.

Well it would fit t8 or t7 scenarios as well. The armor plan was similar to GK I believe.

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11 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

That being said, devs could design it as a boss ship in scenarios.

Yeah it would be nice to see this and the Super Yamato as boss ships. Maybe for some Halloween scenario? :cap_yes:

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9 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

Well it would fit t8 or t7 scenarios as well. The armor plan was similar to GK I believe.

Tier 8 is still possible but heck just look at it. Do you know how much HP will be put there? That's the same as rasputin HP pool.

 

1 hour ago, Thyaliad said:

Yeah it would be nice to see this and the Super Yamato as boss ships. Maybe for some Halloween scenario? :cap_yes:

This?

https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/Battleship-A-150-the-Super-Yamato-333740025

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H-44 Is already too superior to become in game.

If they did that , Then there's this A-144 Yamato with 6x 20" Gun.

 

The German H Class BB idea is a no at this time. I mean FDG is already a H-39.

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6 hours ago, mr_glitchy_R said:

Tier 8 is still possible but heck just look at it. Do you know how much HP will be put there? That's the same as rasputin HP pool.

So it was done before.. instead of giving that much hp to a puny t4, devs might as well add a proper sized ship. Besides, just zoom in FdG's (H39) model and done.

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33 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

So it was done before.. instead of giving that much hp to a puny t4, devs might as well add a proper sized ship. Besides, just zoom in FdG's (H39) model and done.

With higher damage output, more HP pool, and potent secondaries? I think that would made up the representative of H44. But i don't expect WG will think about it or even the operation.

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On 8/10/2018 at 8:42 PM, PUB_AUS_ARMY said:

but it would not be the 1st time wargaming have put in a ship or tank that was a paper plan

Yeah, but considering the T9 T10 Kriegsmarine are already paper ship, do we really want to add another?

Where did you get 400m length, 155,000 tonnes 500mm guns from?

On 8/11/2018 at 1:10 AM, icy_phoenix said:

The design itself wasn't even remotely practical. Can you even keep something like that floating as one rigid body on water surface? Tension will rip the whole thing apart unless it's super light in density.

1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_ships

Ships longer than 400m and substantially heavier than 155,000 tonnes have been built.

Not sure what you mean with “Tension will rip the whole thing apart unless it's super light in density.” ??

Designing ships for all kind of conditions, including heavy seas, is part of the work of naval architects and structural engineers. All a question of throwing enough money at it. The principles of engineering and design and materials to build something like that do exist.

 

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1 hour ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

Yeah, but considering the T9 T10 Kriegsmarine are already paper ship, do we really want to add another?

Where did you get 400m length, 155,000 tonnes 500mm guns from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_ships

Ships longer than 400m and substantially heavier than 155,000 tonnes have been built.

Not sure what you mean with “Tension will rip the whole thing apart unless it's super light in density.” ??

Designing ships for all kind of conditions, including heavy seas, is part of the work of naval architects and structural engineers. All a question of throwing enough money at it. The principles of engineering and design and materials to build something like that do exist.

 

Yes, I'm aware of the modern age development of some super tanker or lifters, or mobile bases, but none of them are armored ships. Besides, if you go into details of some of those Giants, they are built in a way that they can flex. That's something Germany didn't know back in 1940s. For an armored ship that carry such huge guns.. yah, it wasn't practical at all to begin with.

Unless of course used like a fortress.. or full of sandbags underneath like Tirpitz.

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On ‎10‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 6:42 PM, PUB_AUS_ARMY said:

Hi all just asking i am just trying to find out if any 1 else would love to see the german battle ships the H39 H42 and the H44 never built but was in the plans for Hitlers mega ships i know that thay where never made but it would not be the 1st time wargaming have put in a ship or tank that was a paper plan i would love to see the H44 in all her glory in world of warships do to of her massive size at 155,000 tons 400 plus meters long and main guns of 500 mm in caliber just a ship that is impressive in her own right

 

sw332h.jpg

b676da1061117375dd6e0800ebdfd227.jpg

txwx5u0.png

 

FYI the H-39 is already in game. It is called the Friedrich der Große. 

You do realise that H-41 was the last design actually endorsed by the OKM? All following designs, H-42, H-43 and H44 were simply design studies into a hypothetical unbeatable battleship designed to defeat all surface threats at the time and with strong enough horizontal armour to be highly resistant to damage from better and more powerful allied bombs. Remember the fate of Tirpitz from the English Tallboy bombs? 

Hitler had requested a larger BB after the H-41 design was finalised. A committee was formed to study and design bigger BBs which resulted in H-42, H-43 and H-44. These hypothetical ships designs were never intended to be built. The German navy did not seriously consider construction of any of these designs, which were so large that they could not have been built in a traditional slipway. The construction office of the OKM did not even acknowledge the designs and sought to distance themselves from the projects which were deemed to be unnecessary and of doubtful merit given Germany's position.

H-41 was an evolutionary design to improve upon failings in current designs. Everything after H-41 were simply academic exercises into "what ifs" to build an invincible BB and were complete fantasy. 

Many nations have had ships that were designed with all intention of them being made, but circumstances changed and they were cancelled. Normandie and Lyon class are just 2 examples of many. These H designs after H-41 are not even worthy to fall into this category. I sincerely hope WG are not entertaining the idea of introducing ships into the game that are not even paper ships. They were never endorsed or acknowledged by the German Naval high command (OKM). These are napkin ships at best.

 

BTW H-44s design length was not over 400m it was 345 m and a displacement of 131,000 t. These specs are cited in the books by Gröner, and also in Garzke and Dulin. 

5 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

Yes, I'm aware of the modern age development of some super tanker or lifters, or mobile bases, but none of them are armored ships. Besides, if you go into details of some of those Giants, they are built in a way that they can flex. That's something Germany didn't know back in 1940s. For an armored ship that carry such huge guns.. yah, it wasn't practical at all to begin with.

Unless of course used like a fortress.. or full of sandbags underneath like Tirpitz.

It does not matter what the ship is or if it is armoured or not, they all must have an allowance for hull bending stresses in their design or they will literally break in half.

Hogging and sagging are the terms for the bending stresses a hull is subjected to when cresting waves or dipping into a trough. Engineers like Isambard Kingdom Brunel knew about these factors when designing the iron hull of the ship SS Great Britain way back in 1839. Even well before 1839 problems were found with wooden hulled ships with very long hulls. Practical limits on wooden hulls were known at this time to be around 300 feet, beyond this length regardless of how strong the keel was, the hogging stresses exceeded the structural strength of the wood.

German battleships and battlecruisers in WW1 never broke in half from the hulls cracking, because their designs allowed for hogging and sagging. Why 25 years later in 1940 would they have forgotten how to build ships?

I don't know why the Germans in 1940 would have chosen to forget something that was common knowledge in naval architecture for well over 100 years? 

 

FYI even modern ships with all the best design can experience hull stresses in excess of anything their designers ever allowed for. Below is the MOL Comfort back in 2013. The hull cracked in two from extreme hogging during bad weather off Yemen. Ship broke in two but remained afloat. The stern section eventually sank and a week later the bow sank also, before either could be towed to safety. The North Atlantic where German and RN ships were operating during WW1 and WW2 sees far worse weather and sea states than the coast of Yemen.

5b71563c607af_MOLcomfort.thumb.png.ad206fde7de62c8417e5637df5768972.png

 

 

 

 

Edited by HobartAWD

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@HobartAWD, what exactly are you trying to prove? That my point of very long ships being impractical is correct? Cause you are presenting examples that support my theory.

Besides what difference does it make to a well armored ship if you allow bending points? You keep weaknesses throughout the hull. You may stay afloat, but that's not what is expected of a warship. In WW2, dive bombers were precise enough to drop through the funnel. Im pretty sure long ships would be even more prone to attacks and much easier to sink than smaller ones.

May be I should have chosen a different wording, cause words are the point of attacks when there is no logic at all. Here we go: Germans did not build any ships that big that requires such architecture during WW2, they did not have sufficient/necessary resources. Happy now?

Edited by icy_phoenix

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9 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

@HobartAWD, what exactly are you trying to prove? That my point of very long ships being impractical is correct? Cause you are presenting examples that support my theory.

Besides what difference does it make to a well armored ship if you allow bending points? You keep weaknesses throughout the hull. You may stay afloat, but that's not what is expected of a warship. In WW2, dive bombers were precise enough to drop through the funnel. Im pretty sure long ships would be even more prone to attacks and much easier to sink than smaller ones.

May be I should have chosen a different wording, cause words are the point of attacks when there is no logic at all. Here we go: Germans did not build any ships that big that requires such architecture during WW2, they did not have sufficient/necessary resources. Happy now?

Easy there mate. Everything is not a personal attack against you. You said that the Germans had no idea about hull flexing in designing large ships in the 1940s. Completely incorrect. Larger ships built properly are just as seaworthy as smaller ones. Apologies for pointing this out. 

If you see my reply to the OP in the same post you will see that I point out that the designs after the H-41 were never seriously entertained or even acknowledged by the German naval high command. In short they were never intended to be built due to the situation in Germany. Major part of the theoretical design was making them more resistant to aerial bomb damage. We all know and agree that the reign of the BB ended with modern carrier aviation in WW2. Any of these hypothetical H class ships would have been slaughtered by enemy bomber aircraft in airspace where you did not have 100% aerial dominance. 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Shifty_Panzer said:

So this guy is basically saying that he want to add a ship that is bigger than the Grosser Kurfurst, the H-44.

Yep. That's what he is saying. Crazy I know, but that is what he is saying.

Waiting now for threads asking for the IJN A-150 super Yamato battleship to be put into game :Smile_facepalm:

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19 hours ago, HobartAWD said:

Yep. That's what he is saying. Crazy I know, but that is what he is saying.

Waiting now for threads asking for the IJN A-150 super Yamato battleship to be put into game :Smile_facepalm:

 

I can go one better than that......

MOAR  BIGGER ... MOAR BALANCED....  MOAR POWERFUL...... WITH THIS I CAN RULE THE WORLD........ MMUHAHAHAHA

 

 

zSLMioM.jpg

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