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I want some tactics and strategies of IJN DDs

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I want some comments and suggestions of these questions below:

please write about IJN DDs

1. When and where to pop smoke?

2. How to dodge shells effectively?

3. How to deal with enemy air raids( TB cross drops)

                                                                            thank you

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My recommendation - don't play IJN DDs. 

Play DDs from all other nations first - then play IJN DDs. You can answer all of your own questions above once you do so. 

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entire IJN DDs cursed by Lesta Studio << you will suffer more than ever, even Premium DDs all of them have shit stats and worst performance

Torp with highest detection range with same/lower speed (compare to other nations) , chance to hit very low, lowest compare to other Nations' DDs;

Guns , there is no gun:fish_palm:

Radar every where even USN DD (Black)/ Belfast / Flint with smoke + radar same time << nowhere to run

 

The truth teller >>

3 minutes ago, LordTyphoon said:

My recommendation - don't play IJN DDs. 

Play DDs from all other nations first - then play IJN DDs. You can answer all of your own questions above once you do so. 

 

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I've played the IJN DD line first and don't mind them.

The key is not getting spotted too much. Vision games are important with them.

These are my thoughts (others will have different ones) and I take any different views on board.

1. Smoke.

Defensive smoke - when you have been spotted and are getting targeted. Its to break vision and escape then start again from outside concealment range. Using it to start shooting from smoke is not the best idea because your smoke is not that crash hot and they are already shooting at you. Unless its a really low health enemy chasing you just bug out and get set up to torp again.

Offensive smoke - you have a target being spotted by an ally and you start shooting after smoking up. Just leave before you get bounced.

2. Watch shells and see if you can turn to dodge, but don't turn too much, change speed often, works really well when you are running away as its hard to tell if you change speed. 

3. Generally be wary of planes as you have questionable AA. Turning into them as soon as you see them seems to help me a bit, it seems to upset the timing of x drops and sometimes helps you hit torps before they arm. If you see planes around start accelerating so you are moving at top speed, see if you can turn close to an ally with decent AA. 

 

Good luck with them. 

 

 

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Although I don't have IJN DDs on my live account, but over the time I have played many. I am one of the few who do not think IJN DDs are powerless and treat them with respect when facing them. Usually two types of players keep saying that IJN DDs suck

(a) Weeb fanbois, anything done to the game is usually translated as an IJN DD nerf to them.

(b) People who actually value the competitiveness of destroyers, and played US / PA / KM DD lines. They can do as much in those DDs as IJN DDs.

Now keeping that in mind, while IJN DDs are severely inferior in competitive environment, they can be quite fun for random battles.  You have to put their strength to good use.

 

Strength 1: Extremely good concealment. Lets take Kagero for example, you have 5.4 km concealment. This is insanely good concealment to have. you can keep other nation's DD's spotted indefinitely as long as you know how to dance with them. As a DD, you do not try to deal all the damage alone, you make enemy retreat by your presence, or force them to over extend. You have to trust your team. You smash F3 on enemy and you will be surprised that even random players try to pick on easier targets.

That also means, you need to be better with positioning. Always go some place where you won't be rushed. This includes approach angles and retreat plans. You do not steam ahead full speed till you meet enemy DD, you need to have a good guess and slow down and start to turn away like maneuver when you can sense that enemy DD is getting closer. RPF is a must to do this. Don't listen to the extremist who try to tell you that RPF is unethical or cheating, or misleading, this is an extremely important skill. RPF movement can help you to guess distance of DD and where he can be found.

Avoiding predators is also a good skill to have. You should already know where RADAR ships can be camping, torpedo reload time of enemy DDs and the land masses which can be used by enemy to sneak into your concealment range. And be careful about plane movement, keep your AA OFF.

 

Strength 2: Torpedoes. This is arguable however. Your torps have high detection range. But I take it as the slowness of US Mid tier BBs. Everyone will tell you, oh they are so slow its unplayable. The truth is, thats not a huge factor. Same for your torpedoes. Your torpedoes are easier to dodge when enemy is actually expecting them. Otherwise, you still hit shit tons of torps. You need to be able to predict enemy movement while yourself being unpredictable to enemy. Keep this in mind, enemy will always react to getting spotted themselves, or, by actions of your allies behind you. if your allies are low hp or fleeing, enemy ships are more likely to push, and when your allies are overwhelming the flank, they will tend to turn away and retreat. You need to consider these before dumping your torpedoes. Don't just dump them as soon as you see them, or just because your range can reach them. Always try to get as close as you can while staying safe, and give enemy time to stabilize or at least enough time so that you can figure out their driving patterns. Torpedoing the choke points also helps when you know people might be coming through the gaps.

Torpedoes relies on enemy mistakes, if they never make a mistake, you will never hit a torpedo. That's the problem IJN DDs have compared to other DDs. But hey, as a DD, dealing damage isn't your first goal anyway.

 

Weakness: What about guns and smoke? Many IJN DD players will wait to pop smoke unless they are almost dead. Don't try to save smoke charges, they are not much of teamplay use anyway. Use them whenever you need. For guns, you really need to know what you can damage and what you cant. I have seen countless time DDs see a low HP bismarck, and open up on him, the thing is, IJN 127mm deals no damage to them and in return they get murdered by said enemy ship. Again, there are iinstances where IJN DD players see a very low HP DD, and tries to torp it instead of just gunning them down. IJN guns do pack a punch. Never torp anything that can be finished by guns. Smoke and shoot if needed.

 

Most important advice, do not die before half way into the game. Preserve HP. But this does not mean you should just stay back. That's the challenging part of playing DD. Be aggressive and still preserve your HP. Oh, and never try to go behind enemy line. You will be killed 10/10 times if you try to do that in the beginning. Sometimes giving ground to enemy is a good idea. But make sure to keep looking for chances to take it back.

 

Last but not least, if you are new to game, or new to destroyers, DO NOT PLAY IJN DDs. It is not for beginners. Try the US or PA and VMF lines first. They will teach you how to IJN DD faster than actually playing IJN DD as a starter.

Edited by icy_phoenix
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I never fail to read when Icy write..(of coz only when i visit forum once in awhile).

Thanks Icy, good advice, it refresh me. I start playing IJN dd first and then I switch to other line DD. I wish I have read most of Icy's guide/advice before I get to know this game :( Sadly that is now way too late now.

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4 minutes ago, RimauLaut said:

I never fail to read when Icy write..(of coz only when i visit forum once in awhile).

Thanks Icy, good advice, it refresh me. I start playing IJN dd first and then I switch to other line DD. I wish I have read most of Icy's guide/advice before I get to know this game :( Sadly that is now way too late now.

Oi !! Stop trolling. You are already a very experienced player... uwu

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13 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

Oi !! Stop trolling. You are already a very experienced player... uwu

Not trolling..just expressing a sincere opinion. Experience by battle count yes, maybe, but by skill no. Still trying to improve as day pass by. Still remember the painful lesson tier 8 IJN dd gave me in my first ranking season. (It open my eyes of the capability of other nation dd..and teach me how to somehow play against them in IJN dd..yes its hard, but I stick my love for IJN dd until recently when PA come around) 

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If you are beginner, i recommended that you shouldn't play IJN DD line, play USN or KM line instead, it much easier to play and and in high tier they can do same role as IJN DD or even better.

IJN DD in current meta is not newbie friendly line (it hard to play effectively) .

-Their low tier is mediocre and not thing special,

-when you reach the mid and higher tier. they streng (concealment and torpedo) being effect very hard by radar and hand hydro meta, so it harder to you to scouts/spot and your torpedo is very easy to dodge. If you want use them effectively   you at least need to remember which ship should you avoid, how long and how far those radar/hydro activate, and some experience to increase chance to hit target with your torpedo 

About your question

1. When and where to pop smoke?

>When you being spotted and someone actually shoot at you, in mid and high tier make sure you are not in radar/hydro range because those thing will make your smoke useless. So it would better if you can get out the spotting range or take cover behind some island.  

>Sometime you can use make to cover yourself when you want tpo should something safely without being spotted, but it quite rare for IJN DD to actually do that because your gun is not very good. Akizuki is exception case since she have enough firepower to make full use of it.

2. How to dodge shells effectively?

>Press speed buff and AWSD, don't gun straight line, change your speed frequently also work . More important, pray for enemy is potato

3. How to deal with enemy air raids( TB cross drops)

>Same as above,  Speed buff and AWSD, at least it work when facing tier 4-5, when facing tier 6+ CV, pray for them is potato, since if they actually want you die, you dead. Smoke work sometime (especially against tier 4-5 CV),  but it is double eagle sword if you facing a decent CV player whole actually know how to manual drop.

Edited by K135Blitzkrieg

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As a new player, my experience of IJN dds is this:

1. CVs are very effective against you. Their rockets always disable you, and cause significant damage. Bombs are deadly to you. Worst of all, CVs reveal you to the enemy cruisers, and once they know where on the map you are, you will have no concealment until you are dead. Thankfully, this will not be a long time. Death comes quickly, once a CV knows where you are. They will take half your health, the cruisers will do the rest.

2. Enemy cruisers are very effective against you. Many now have special SAP ammo, to do extra damage to you. Most also have better torpedo range and speed than you do. Many are faster than you, so you cannot escape by running away.

3. Enemy DDs are very effective against you. They all have better guns, and are faster, and their torps have smaller detection range, so are much harder to avoid in close quarters combat. If you pop smoke, they will rush you and you will die quickly.

4. Enemy BBs are not so effective against you, unless you are a Minekaze.  If you are a Minekaze, you must close to within secondary battery range to use your high detection torps. This is a high excitement, low duration enterprise. 

5. Do not try to chase down CVs or BBs. Everything is about your speed or faster, and the speed booster is only their to trick you into wasting credits. DO NOT purchase the up tier speed booster. Use the free one, more for psychological comfort than for speed. The speed boost really does nothing worthwhile. I only adds a few knots when moving in a straight line for long periods of time. If you are ducking and weaving, which you are, you wash off all your speed anyway.

6. Grinding through the tier V DDs is the worst, but things get much better with the Fubuki. The Fubuki can be a lot of fun to play, and the tier Vs will teach you how to die for the Emperor with honour, making you a much better (more cautious) dd warrior.

7. The Asashio is loads of fun. This premium ship is how life was meant to be, before the darkness came upon the world. If The Man gives you a 2 for 1 coupon deal, you should definitely buy yourself some doubloons. I bought 10'000 (fifty bucks) and got 20'000 extra. Then you use the "ship for doubloons" coupon in the Armoury to purchase the Asashio. This gives you 25% discount, which means you get it very cheaply. A great deal, and you deserve it for grinding the Tier V IJN dds. 

8. Do not play IJN dds if you love stats. You will die a lot, many times without having a chance to do much damage. I have often (very often) been spotted by CVs, disabled by rockets, and finished by Cruisers, before having a chance to fire a shot.

Edited by SidTheKnife

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On 8/7/2018 at 6:20 PM, world_of_war_battle said:

I want some comments and suggestions of these questions below:

please write about IJN DDs

1. When and where to pop smoke?

2. How to dodge shells effectively?

3. How to deal with enemy air raids( TB cross drops)

                                                                            thank you

How to play IJN DDs? You don't

IMO this is one of the hardest line to learn.

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IJN DDs were fine. Until all the non USN/IJN lines started appearing. The problem lies in that the original design was IJN = torps, USN = guns.

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46 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

IJN DDs were fine. Until all the non USN/IJN lines started appearing. The problem lies in that the original design was IJN = torps, USN = guns.

Yes absolutely, they are trying to give each nation and each class of ship a niche ability.

Hopefully with subs coming this will expand the range of niche abilities for each nation.

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2 hours ago, SidTheKnife said:

As a new player, my experience of IJN dds is this:

1. CVs are very effective against you. Their rockets always disable you, and cause significant damage. Bombs are deadly to you. Worst of all, CVs reveal you to the enemy cruisers, and once they know where on the map you are, you will have no concealment until you are dead. Thankfully, this will not be a long time. Death comes quickly, once a CV knows where you are. They will take half your health, the cruisers will do the rest.

2. Enemy cruisers are very effective against you. Many now have special SAP ammo, to do extra damage to you. Most also have better torpedo range and speed than you do. Many are faster than you, so you cannot escape by running away.

3. Enemy DDs are very effective against you. They all have better guns, and are faster, and their torps have smaller detection range, so are much harder to avoid in close quarters combat. If you pop smoke, they will rush you and you will die quickly.

4. Enemy BBs are not so effective against you, unless you are a Minekaze.  If you are a Minekaze, you must close to within secondary battery range to use your high detection torps. This is a high excitement, low duration enterprise. 

5. Do not try to chase down CVs or BBs. Everything is about your speed or faster, and the speed booster is only their to trick you into wasting credits. DO NOT purchase the up tier speed booster. Use the free one, more for psychological comfort than for speed. The speed boost really does nothing worthwhile. I only adds a few knots when moving in a straight line for long periods of time. If you are ducking and weaving, which you are, you wash off all your speed anyway.

6. Grinding through the tier V DDs is the worst, but things get much better with the Fubuki. The Fubuki can be a lot of fun to play, and the tier Vs will teach you how to die for the Emperor with honour, making you a much better (more cautious) dd warrior.

7. The Asashio is loads of fun. This premium ship is how life was meant to be, before the darkness came upon the world. If The Man gives you a 2 for 1 coupon deal, you should definitely buy yourself some doubloons. I bought 10'000 (fifty bucks) and got 20'000 extra. Then you use the "ship for doubloons" coupon in the Armoury to purchase the Asashio. This gives you 25% discount, which means you get it very cheaply. A great deal, and you deserve it for grinding the Tier V IJN dds. 

8. Do not play IJN dds if you love stats. You will die a lot, many times without having a chance to do much damage. I have often (very often) been spotted by CVs, disabled by rockets, and finished by Cruisers, before having a chance to fire a shot.

1. Rocket planes are hard to dodge but once you know how to evade them, they often struggle to land clear hits without a 2nd source of spotting such as fighters or surface ships. Bombs are very unlikely to land any hit you if you were evading. CV spotting problem applies to nearly all DDs. Basically everything applies to most DDs, not just IJN DDs.

 

2. Learn to angle and dodge. At lower tiers, cruisers can still overmatch you, so they are quite dangerous to approach. However once you reach T6 your armour improves, once at that tier, SAP and AP will do almost very little damage if you angle against it. Once you reach T6, Italian and UK cruisers are largely harmless by themselves, but they will beat the crap out of you if they catch you offguard.

 

3. Again IJN DDs are best at using their stealth, if your stealth gets blown, you need to have an exit route ready. You shouldn't even engage in close combat unless you got an element of surprise or much higher hp. Your guns have superior velocity but low dpm. This gives you an advantage when kiting at med ranges against anything that you can't comfortably outspot, however you don't won't see the full power of this trait until you reach T7 Akatsuki. Also if you get rushed in your own smoke, its your fault. Know where the enemy is and whether it is actually safe to sit in the smoke for a prolonged time.

 

4. Your torps are long range, you're meant to drop them from stealth, and only rush if you can show up right next to them from behind cover. The high detection is indeed a problem, but the speed of dreadnoughts at lower tiers also means they're less effective at dodging them.

 

5. The speed boost is actually less about the increase to maximum speed, unless you're french. A big point of speed boost is that it greatly increases your engine power, which lets you accelerate and deceelerate much faster. You can turn faster and also regain the loss speed faster afterwards. You can quickly slow down or speed up to dodge shells and planes easier.

 

6. Torpboats are the worst when encountering T4 triple CVs. But in matches without them, you will outspot everything and very hard for the enemy to track down. In this case, its probably more fun to encounter T6 because the maps are much larger and you don't really see triple CV.

 

7. Don't skip tiers, especially when you've never played at that tier before. Each IJN ship in a line tends to have significant differences that teaches different things.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Brunswickz said:

First post was August 7 2018.

better to bring back an old post if people are interested than to start a new one. The forums are filled with some many duplicates.

@SidTheKnife two points, firstly as @Verytis pointed out, Engine boost isn't really just so you can speed around dodging shells. I use it in case I've messed up in smoke and need a boost for some torp beats. Its also helpful for re-positioning, eg having to go across half the map because a flank has just collapsed.

Don't underestimate IJN guns, if you set yourself up correctly the slow traverse wont affect you. The also pack quite a punch and I've caught many a gunboat by surprise who thought they would have an easy job in a shooting contest. You'll notice the higher tier boats have the two turrets at the back, this is great, if you wiggle your stern as you run from a gunboat you'll find yourself quite hard to hit but, thanks to the good IJN gun ballistics you'll give them a bloody nose and will often find they will drop the chase unless you are very low health.

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12 hours ago, Brunswickz said:

First post was August 7 2018.

Yeah, but with the exception of Mr Glitchy’s comment, all subsequent comments have been related to the person who bumped the topic.

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42 minutes ago, blauflamme22 said:

better to bring back an old post if people are interested than to start a new one. The forums are filled with some many duplicates.

@SidTheKnife two points, firstly as @Verytis pointed out, Engine boost isn't really just so you can speed around dodging shells. I use it in case I've messed up in smoke and need a boost for some torp beats. Its also helpful for re-positioning, eg having to go across half the map because a flank has just collapsed.

Don't underestimate IJN guns, if you set yourself up correctly the slow traverse wont affect you. The also pack quite a punch and I've caught many a gunboat by surprise who thought they would have an easy job in a shooting contest. You'll notice the higher tier boats have the two turrets at the back, this is great, if you wiggle your stern as you run from a gunboat you'll find yourself quite hard to hit but, thanks to the good IJN gun ballistics you'll give them a bloody nose and will often find they will drop the chase unless you are very low health.

 

29 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Yeah, but with the exception of Mr Glitchy’s comment, all subsequent comments have been related to the person who bumped the topic.

Yeah, i just pointed that out in case this forum is anti necro or something, which is idk.

Also, there is a huge gap between the recent IJN DD playstyle with the one year ago.

Which is kinda disconnected if someone trying to read from the 1st post.

Edited by Brunswickz

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22 minutes ago, Brunswickz said:

 

Yeah, i just pointed that out in case this forum is anti necro or something, which is idk.

Also, there is a huge gap between the recent IJN DD playstyle with the one year ago.

Which is kinda disconnected if someone trying to read from the 1st post.

The forums hate necros but also don't like double ups so damned if you do, damned if you don't :Smile_amazed:
As for play style, I think Icy's guide still stands up. Not that much has changed, there are more CVs, but life in a CV game is much easier now than it was in a pre-rework game with a CV. Sure rockets might take a chunk of your health at the start but its better than being devstruck a minute in. And sure you may be spotted a bit, but it's better than being perma-spotted for a whole game by a fighter squadron following you around.
If a DD player is interested in how to counter rocket planes now then @Moggytwo has written a handy guide with a pretty picture too, that is applicable to all DDs

 

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22 minutes ago, blauflamme22 said:

The forums hate necros but also don't like double ups so damned if you do, damned if you don't :Smile_amazed:
As for play style, I think Icy's guide still stands up. Not that much has changed, there are more CVs, but life in a CV game is much easier now than it was in a pre-rework game with a CV. Sure rockets might take a chunk of your health at the start but its better than being devstruck a minute in. And sure you may be spotted a bit, but it's better than being perma-spotted for a whole game by a fighter squadron following you around.
If a DD player is interested in how to counter rocket planes now then @Moggytwo has written a handy guide with a pretty picture too, that is applicable to all DDs

 

I'm ok, in fact i more leaning to think like you. If the old thread can be reused, or still stands up, why not.

Just a reminder, because idk how people usually think in here, don't be alerted. Sid's post in fact updates the thread.

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3 hours ago, Brunswickz said:

If the old thread can be reused, or still stands up, why not.

It is okay if the old thread is still has some relevance by today's state of the game like the SC Mega Merged Thread. However it is not if it barely has any relevance. Another issue of reusing the old thread is that once it becomes much longer, the recent posts might not be directed to the OP, but rather than to someone else like Sid here.

This one is borderline okay since the thread is still short.

Edited by Sir_Feather

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