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Mechfori

Domination game mode ruined

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IS it only me or wha, I am seeing more and more that Domination having no real meaning as a game mode .. anymore ... since no DD nor CL can survive under hail of Radar coverage and increasingly all the guns , BB and CA alike not going up front to support and protect, cause they can be safe and stay way out and all the care is to stat their own little quest to see if they can kill more enemy .. the health and safety of their teammate is of no significance so the Cl and DD became just bait for enemy fire ..

 

Almost all the Domination game I'ev come across lately became more a hunt for enemy instead sort of reverse standard battle ... the point of capping an Area became non issue so why bother

 

My take, WOWS need to revamp Domination .. The point allocated need to reflect that, reduce the point in Domination game for killing enemy outside of the areas and increase granted point for areas controlled over time, and my recommendtion, stat this game mode wit no home base to any team .. the teams will have to fight for the areas .. not just all going out flank and wild hunting enemy ships only

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Domination mode is by far the most exciting and adrenaline-rushing game mode by far. Or would you prefer a more passive game mode like Standard Battle or Epicentre where many DDs love to sail around to flank? :thinking:

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16 hours ago, Keikyu2133F said:

Domination mode is by far the most exciting and adrenaline-rushing game mode by far. Or would you prefer a more passive game mode like Standard Battle or Epicentre where many DDs love to sail around to flank? :thinking:

Depends what DD you’re in. If you’re in a torpedo boat, it can be nice to not have the expectation to “go cap” and work on spotting and torping instead.

On the other hand, it’s also nice to know where the enemy DDs are most likely to be, so you can send toros in that direction.

Or in a gunboat, knowing where you can ambush DDs.

And caps also get you great XP.

But increased radar is making DDs more timid, and increased HE spam is making BBs more timid as well, and until players collectively work out how to deal with that, we’ll see a lot of people hanging back and focusing on survival rather than playing the objective.

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Yep, there is a lot of radar coverage of caps, in some cases multiple caps from the one location.

For me It feels like the initial stages of the game has moved from a get in and cap in the mid no radar tiers to a probe to find locations of enemy radar ships and see if your radar ships can light overextended ships at the start. 

I've found that not being too aggressive on capping in a DD with a couple of radar ships works OK. By triggering the cap counter all you do is tell them almost exactly where you are. Knowing the detection ranges of enemy ships (critical for radar ships) helps find that spot where you are not too exposed. 

I've found if you have radar support sitting just outside the cap (close enough to interrupt) gives you some lower risk options. The empty cap also seems to encourages enemy dds to cap and then risk getting radar swatted while you don't put yourself at so much risk. Even if they get a cap, if they pay with it with a few dead ships its still fine. You can cap it after the initial frenzy has died down. Learning patience is at times very difficult for me but does seem to pay a good dividend in this game.

It is also very frustrating, as a DD, to go to the trouble and risk of lighting up enemy ships then your backup focuses on shooting BB instead of radar ships.....

 

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1 hour ago, Puggsley said:

I've found that not being too aggressive on capping in a DD with a couple of radar ships works OK.

It's a smart strategy, RADAR or no RADAR. It's called "letting your opponent have the first move" and it has been known for centuries. So far as contesting caps goes, it's generally preferable to the alternative doctrine of "seize the initiative", though I admit neither are foolproof.

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I do agree with the said strategy but unfortunately lately the trend for all the guns, even radar ship to stay way out and start their own long range hunt. They would not go support capping even after the initial stage , so DD / CL even after enemy like force had been wiped, still face cross fire when they cap and all the guns want to do is long range fire the other sides but not suppressing enemy fire so the up front teammates could actually cap ... and then of course the light force usually get killed ..

A similar scenario develop in Standard Battles ; Guns BB and CA and also most CL now only stay back, go way out flank, and never bother to support the DD scouting up front .. been sold out so many times now that as a DD Player I no longer could put my trust on the BB / CA / CL supporting when needed, the fire support just not there ... so what can a DD do, stay back and well then scouting is no more ( unless a CV is there ) and then ...

The over abundance of Radar and existence of CV as well as the mechanism of the game pretty much force DD and CL to just not go out and do its job cause going out up front just mean being cross fired upon without any support ( cause own side guns are not in range or not bother to expose themselves or simply do not bother as they want to get kill on the exposed enemy which the scouting DD so hard discovering ) and this ruin the game overall ... DD is suppose to be stealthy and able to go out and ambush / scout, if that intent is not possible then all I can deduce is that Wargaming had simply ruin the mechanics. There's need to be a way to made the game and ships / ship types to function as they should.

Just as there were too many OP cruisers / Radars ... we might need to give the players some OP DD instead to counter that ... so say Radar too, it should be made more realistic, it should not be ale to penetrate land mass and the Radar ship should instantly reveal itself to all enemy ships when its using the Radar ( pretty much as reality goes )

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Radar ships only have a limited number of times they can use it, and they tend to go to the obvious spots to cover caps. So you kind of have an idea of how far away they are. 

If you can get them to pop radar at close to their max detection range (cap works well, spotting them is not as good but often works) and you position so you can retreat out of range then you don't face too much risk. You wait out the radar and get the long cool-down to contest the cap with one radar out.

Its frustrating but what you gonna do? Try something different or whinge? It cuts both ways too, the other DDs are facing similar issues.

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This is more than just a rant, its about discussion of whether the game mechanics actually function as it should be ... i fact I just gone off a few Domination games tonight and almost all the time the guns be it BB or CA, and even the CL all make an effort to stay out and only move sideway across the map, few if any come up to push or to support ... and the the DD either get killed or they will need to retreat as they cannot survive if staying up there. Then the DD are accused of not going up front to scout ... Hmm ...now tell me this had to do with Radar .. well actually I think not .. its about how the BB and CA player perceive how they can best score ( not necessarily how to win a game ). Radar is a catalyst, sure. And I am asking what others than a DD can do ... or what a BB / CA can do ..

What's been stated are all valid if and only if the guns would go up front to support, but that's exactly what the game lacks ... guns are more than often now just all wanting to stay way out, go out flank, do their own hunt instead .. its safer and who can blame them for that ... but then of course the DDs who need to go up front to cap / scout / spot are in deep heat and they resentment is certainly there ... got request to go cap, go scout, go spot but then the guns will not support the DD doing so ... in long term DD player will simply refuse to go do their job and refuse  to support the guns if and when tha's needed , and that's exactly what I am seeing lately. I've seen games that neither side even bother to cap at all

Ultimately if the Domination game mode develop into no longer a case of competing for the Areas, then the whole game mode pretty much lost its intent and purpose, its now just a different standard battle ( and sometime without home base ).

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Most games have 2 or 3 DDs at present, so Domination means that free caps or lightly contested ones.

You can afford to not rush in and die, especially if you can kill/severely damage one of their DDs as the price of their early cap. Or go to a cap which is contested by a non-DD and take a ship out.

I'm learning and fighting the urge to push in hard and cap early. My long WoT career clearly showed the huge rewards for smart aggressive play. It wins a lot of games. I don't have the skills in WoWS to always recognise how much aggression is justified and I do overextend.   

It is frustrating that people don't play the way I want them to (most likely a good thing), but the onus is on you to work with the team you have been dealt. Often the issue is my lack of understanding their ship strengths because I have only got 1 high tier ship. Not killing radar ships when lit is pretty well guaranteed to have me getting antsy and if repeated will result in an immediate flank relocation.

People love doing big damage numbers, I know i like it. It dominates in game KPIs and gives people bragging status. Its easy to measure. And it drives behaviours.

I find a big part of the attraction of this game is the long learning curve.     

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I agree with the said situation described ,  lately I've switch my strategy to try to scout, spot and cap early .. instead I just throttle to 3/4 and slowly edge up front ... but then of course I keep have guns yelling at me to go up and scout for them or crying for cap .. when they would not push, would not support, and would not even bother to help when situation demand. and that's a by product of how the game score , its easy for them to target the slow BB, and then of course all the enemy cruisers, radar ships, and even DD are pretty much ignored unless they are too close for comfort, and that further drive the guns desire to not to go up front and support. 

Wargaming keep talking team play but their game pretty much encourage people not to team play because those who do suffer from having to face danger, get hit often, get killed early and score less .. in short game play hurts , and being selfish and just use the teammate as fire bait rewards ... that's the case right now and especially with the Asian Realm servers ... and of course Cl might stand a chance to disengage, but DD, pretty much guarantee death. Checking the games, its so often now that at stat the guns simply stay put and not move at all and only wait till the DD go at least 1/3  up the map before they would move and when the do the jus move up a slight bit so the get in range and then they just move side way .. and usually finding an island to hide .. this mean effectively even if they would want to support the cannot cause they are too far out and having too restricted a firing arc.

It had gone to the point that if , as a DD Player if right at stat I do not see BB or CA / CL following .. I simply stop going up front and I woud politely inform them that if the do not come then I do not go .. as the Oaku Lingo goes, let's hurt ourselves mutually .. going up front to scout, spot and cap is now no longer a task worth it or even possible for a DD in such situation. In fact it had gone to a point that I am seeing more and more cruisers and BB actively avoid direct conflict and only wanting to fire upon enemy who are fully engaged with other teammates as then they got free shoot at the target. In such case, I must sa I am so tempted to do some friendly fire or even being a team killer

 

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Nah, not getting support is a minor reason why DDs don't survive. It's mostly problem with them not being able to judge the situation or get an estimate about enemy support ships. Most non unicum DD players I see either YOLO rush a cap, or don't go near cap at all.

It is not always possible for supports to just follow you into the cap. They need to get into positions first, a lot harder to do than in a DD. You have to figure out better approach angle and escape route first. Once support ships go in, they are already fully committed. They cannot bail like a DD can if things go wrong.

Besides, playing a DD is a lot about playing mind game, you don't just push, you push and pull. And most certainly, you don't always need a bunch of ships behind you. DDs are 2nd most strongest class in the game imo. You just need to grow confidence.

 

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Its the distance guns behind you which drives my willingness to stay and contest a cap. Cruisers close-ish (and BBs to a lesser extent) behind, then enemy DDs spotted are going to be under a lot of relatively accurate gunfire. If its just BBs or long range cruisers behind you then its going to be pretty much you and whatever is in front of you duking it out.  

I don't ever really expect support ships to follow into cap, just to be wise about what they are targeting. Removing enemy eyes makes the win almost a forgone conclusion. Picking on a sniping BB doesn't really do much at all.

Like WoT, scouting and general play in a DD or LT is very similar.

Know how you can escape if you need to, know who is behind you and who can shoot at what you light. Most people don't really like being spotted, its scarier than your guns. Start (establish map control and cap control) and endgame (straggler and camper ships all alone and less eyes to spot you) are key times to leverage your strengths.

 

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I do understand what you guys are saying and I am not expecting CL / CA / BB to go into the Areas right away, but capping take time and that once ( and if ) capped, the Areas need to be defended .. the current game environment had made it difficult for both DD and CL to do their job , first in the capping, then in the post capping since no CA/ BB are willing to even push up to the front to support and defend .. leaving that to the light force which then of course got into being cross fired upon, and die quick ... I do not realistically expect CA or BB to go in and cap with DD but they need to be at least at the fringe supporting, that do not happen more than often, they just stay way out and way back, and mostly hide behind islands where they do not have the firing arc to support, which mean even if the DD / CL spot enemies and are trying their best to run / hide the usually would not escape the cross fire as the guns usually simply cannot support .. and in many case simply will not support either ... they are too concerned about finding their own easy target and just not getting hit themselves ...

Then the game mode pretty much dictate the DD/CL to play it safe and not going to cap, which then the game develop into just yet another standard battle where everyone hunt everyone else

And that's why I consider this game mode ruined ... in sort the aim is no longer gaming for the Areas for domination, its jst another standard battle .. I think if Wargaming want 2 different game mode the should at least made the two work both .. One thing I think Domination should reflect in scoring and success is if one team fail to dominate the Areas , then they should lost the game even if they kill all the enemies, After all the game mode is about Dominating the Areas ( at least tha's how I see it )

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