Radar a compromise with no change for Radar ship. (Almost radar LOS by default for rest of team)

[VonHurbet]

First for this suggestion I recommend making NO change to how ship with radar see’s targets in its radar range.  If a ship has Radar it can hide behind that land mass and use it.  They will see all RED ships in range as its now, NO change at all.  Just team will only get mini-map update like storm reduced range.

This change is only for other ships that do not have radar active. If they do not have break stealth LOS, as it is now for ships firing/in smoke/or moving behind a landmass, only mini-map is update as for "storm range affects" now.  What I mean by "storm range affects" is if you are out of the 8km range in a storm you can see RED ship on minimap, one of you team had detected, but its not displayed on screen till you also have LOS.  

This function/change should require only a small code change and little server CPU change.  As the code to display ships on min-map is currently used in storms. As code currently has an adaptable range that walks down to 8km.  Just make for all but ship with radar storm LOS as by DD detection range, it breaks stealth use code/system as it is now.

Its not LOS for radar but is a compromise as it has no effect on what Radar ship can see. But it will stop a Radar ship hiding behind island and covering 2 caps so team can shoot at DD in cap. Team will only now see DD on mini-map unless it does something to be in LOS.  The ship with radar needs to shoot/close with DD and force it to break stealth.   

[9mm1n]

I see you have made an insightful suggestion regarding radar consumable, Товарищ. Now let me just cue the ensuing standard response to save WG and everyone's time

 

1. Engine limitations

2. Maybe too confusing for players

3. Radar is totally fine, Товарищ, the meta is ever changing and you simply have to adapt to the current radar meta

4. Number of Radar has minimal impact on battle outcome. Trust me on this one, we have data model proving this)))

5. Changing radar may upset customers ((((((

6. Radar is a necessary counter to the most OP class in wows, nerfingradar effectiveness will discourage the most persecuted class from sailing into range!!!

[tsuenwan]

1. the radar mechanics is simplier than the visual range model, and it is fundamental game engine capwbilities
2. wows game mechanics has been complex, and comfusing, adding radar to it did not make it easier to anyone
3. sure I can adopt the way radar introduce, sure why can not anyone adapt why radar mechanics re-balanced.
4. it already changed the game making composition. i trust my eyes
5. the current change has already upset me, if I am not the customer.
6. how many Op class ships do you want to make them disppear from the game? look at Cvs at the moment

we need balance, you may make change to balance something now, then you find out something, then thing can be improve further by making another change, and do not see any wrong of suggesting such

[icy_phoenix]

@9mm1n, there's a new one now

7. Radar is fine, playerbase just need to learn.

[ShiraYukira]

i been playing ijn dd and radar is a pain
 i agree with @icy_phoenix 
i may whine about it at the point im radar-ed but overall , JUST DEAL WITH IT
 

 

[dejiko_nyo]

19 minutes ago, ShiraYukira said:

i been playing ijn dd and radar is a pain
 i agree with @icy_phoenix 
i may whine about it at the point im radar-ed but overall , JUST DEAL WITH IT
 

 

Yes, shira, it is a pain but we deal with it.

Honestly, I couldn't care anymore about how much radar is on the map. What I do have beef are:

1) people who sit in their fatass ships from far away screaming "spot spot spot" "cap cap cap" without realising how dangerous life is upfront and

2) The uneven radar distribution between teams. Yes, I have been on the side of a 1 v 4/5 radar and somehow managed to pull a win off together with a decent team working together. I do not mind our team being roasted by EM radiation but at least we must be given the chance to counter-roast. >:\

Quite often I am or I see dds doing their job. Except no one is supporting the dd. What is the point of risking your life and spotting if no one is going to make use of the advantage you have given? If battleships can be selfish about preserving their life, then dds are equally entitled to also stay alive.

[icy_phoenix]

Welp, I should've explained more. If you have watched the most recent Q&A sessions, there were a few questions where the dev answer was sort of "git gud". So, add that to new response list of WG.

If you ask me, definitely not fine.

[tsuenwan]

Radar is fine, players need to learn, so does WG need to hear from players.

[BLOODSHOTNIPPLES]

Example, you can look in "another used to be popular" game of Dota2 with their ever-changing meta that comes in every patch. Players complaining about buffs and nerfs all the time, but they dealt with it and make use of the advantages it brings.

Same concept. First I've noticed was RN BB line came about with their uber HE. To cull the BB overpopulation i guess. Yeah their introduction taught me how to control using Repair Party and Damage con to sustain in longer exchange and made me better at managing fires and heals. Now we no longer hear players complaining about HE spams and fires right? It's just another phase.

Now the Radar meta teaches you not to charge in and cap blindly but assess your situational awareness before committing into a decision. 

Change is always refreshing, makes the playerbase get out of thier comfort zone(or ships) and learn to deal with new challenges.

Too bad brawling and capping isn't gonna be as easy as it used to be anymore, gameplay is proving to be more passive and campy which gets on my nerves sometimes.

In other words of WG Q&A interpretation, deal with it and get good. 

[kon_thai]

WG: Hmm.. Radar is now an issue to lots of players. We must do something.

*Next Patch Announce

WG: We proudly present Radar modification 2 which extend Radar range by 100%

 

This is what you usually get when you whine about something and even if you don't it comes anyway just slower. lol

[PGM991]

Well...  Just don't complain when DD don't go up front to spot and cap for you

Radar directly punished DD that try to play aggressive/objective.

[BuckleUpBones]

19 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

7. Radar is fine, playerbase just need to learn.

Its killed off a DD role, therefore its contributed to teamwork demise, most practiced tactic nowadays is focus fire. 

[BLOODSHOTNIPPLES]

Was looking thru NA forums this morning. They have made a valid point in the RADAR discussion topic which makes much sense. 

"Radar as a mechanic is fine...for the most part. 

The current radar saturation in queue is a problem.

Two different issues. "

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/161996-so-why-not-make-active-sensors-stuff-work-in-both-directions/?page=2

Ok the third page came out with more interesting info on LOS. check it out.

[Rina_Pon]

We may see some in-game adjustments like we saw detection radii when firing from smoke get nerfed. Making radar/hydro "for your eyes only" would be one way, as would allowing islands to block spotting. The latter would be the obvious route I think.

Speaking as someone who uses hydro alot for DD hunting, I'd have to say that this would be a significant nerf to the point where the usefullness of the consumable (vs. equipping DFAA instead) itself comes into question, but I could probably live with it.

[dejiko_nyo]

I have the ultimate win-win solution for WG and everyone:

Put Belfast back on sale and everyone will buy it. Then we get 14v14 Belfast games. Everyone has an advantage. And WG makes $$$.

[spixys]

1 hour ago, dejiko_nyo said:

I have the ultimate win-win solution for WG and everyone:

Put Belfast back on sale and everyone will buy it. Then we get 14v14 Belfast games. Everyone has an advantage. And WG makes $$$.

The next step is changed the title back to WoB - World of Belfast.

[Exiaa]

As a DD player, there are many ways to deal with radar, just that most dont know.

You can bait radar by reversing into the cap, getting out of there once the cruiser uses radar and come back again in a minute.

If you are caught within 7-8km with no way out before the radar ends, sometimes stopping is the best decision, as enemy cruisers expect you to be running for your life and USN shells are pretty easy to dodge. Its not too difficult, but requires practice.

If you decide to push and are afraid of radar, always have an escape route available. Dont push up in the open where you are an easy target. Find an island you can easily escape behind and watch out for the last positions of radar cruisers and islands where they can re position to,. 

My point is, radar dont need any nerfs or changes right now. Sure maybe the long radar duration on a DM is quite overwhelming, but its not the end of the world unless you get caught in a really bad position, which in that case blame yourself instead of the enemy.  

 

[icy_phoenix]

5 hours ago, Rina_Pon said:

Speaking as someone who uses hydro alot for DD hunting, I'd have to say that this would be a significant nerf to the point where the usefullness of the consumable (vs. equipping DFAA instead) itself comes into question, but I could probably live with it.

We were mostly talking about high tier situation here. At high tier, hydro isn't really useful, and mostly defensive purposes only. Unlike RADAR. RADAR renders an entire class useless. Especially when 3-4 of them in one team. You just need 1 to deny a whole cap. Infact, there are few maps where just sitting behind a rock, a Des Moines can block two caps at the same time for 56 seconds straight. RADAR would not be a problem if there were realistic ways to deal with them, but there isn't. You can't damage something protected by hard cover. And most RADAR carrier ship has insane amount of AA. Look at Minotaur or Des Moines. They are literally untouchable by CVs.

[icy_phoenix]

51 minutes ago, Exiaa said:

As a DD player, there are many ways to deal with radar, just that most dont know.

...

Problem here is, you are saying this from a unicum's perspective (for DD players). Unicum DD player knows which rock a radar cruiser will take and plan his advance accordingly. Or simply move on to next achievable objective. But, for a radar player, he doesn't need to be the unicum the DD needs to be. Do you see the problem here? One needs to be unicum and another just need to be average at best. They don't equate. 

I don't have complain about RADAR as a mechanism. Its the increasing amount of them I'm worried about. Needless to say, MM doesn't do jack to balance them between teams, and devs probably not interested in doing so in the first place.

Applying RADAR should be more challenging. Just like Hydro. It is not easy to effectively use a hydro, since you need to be worried about enemy offensive forces while you make use of your hydro.

One easy fix for me (without changing mechanism) would be to spread out hard cover away from caps, so there are always certain spots on the caps that RADARs could not reach. That will allow DDs to realize which area to flush out with torps, or the RADAR carrier needs to be more aggressive, etc. Clearly simple ideas do not come easy to WG.

[Exiaa]

38 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

you are saying this from a unicum's perspective (for DD players)

b..but im not unicum :'(

 

[PGM991]

I know how to bait radar, escape, and back again

problem is when I'm back, another radar pop up

I escape again and when I'm back for 3rd attempt that first radar is up and ready

and cycle continue...

3 min cool down for standard 2 for premium + 1 additional charge...

3-4 radar ship? I give up capping entirely...

us light cruiser haven't out yet and we see it effects

and when they arrive, it's gonna get worst 

and considered that radar would be a standard consumables for new ship line to come.....

 

oh boy...

[Rina_Pon]

1 hour ago, icy_phoenix said:

We were mostly talking about high tier situation here. At high tier, hydro isn't really useful, and mostly defensive purposes only. Unlike RADAR. RADAR renders an entire class useless. Especially when 3-4 of them in one team. You just need 1 to deny a whole cap. Infact, there are few maps where just sitting behind a rock, a Des Moines can block two caps at the same time for 56 seconds straight. RADAR would not be a problem if there were realistic ways to deal with them, but there isn't. You can't damage something protected by hard cover. And most RADAR carrier ship has insane amount of AA. Look at Minotaur or Des Moines. They are literally untouchable by CVs.

Having a God-eye button pressed every 2 minutes must make games tedious.

I'd say the probability of a nerf here is relatively high, as it was for smoke. WG tends to have it's antenna closely tuned to player tedium as it makes all kinds of vital metrics trend in downward directions.

 

[martz57]

radar should be more realistic like blocked by large objects say islands and range should be determined by size and profile of ships. Now when playing dd if you don't have much team support, the dd is getting blown out of the water or dd has to sit back and hide

[Onlinegamer]

why we still use radar

we are able to use spotter plane