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coldsteelfury

Radar needs the following reforms

14 comments in this topic

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I've just been in a match in a DD with a friendly Iowa playing drakes and dragons around islands with an enemy Des Moines and Iowa.

Despite using islands for cover to avoid insta death when the radar is popped, I still died despite good tactics by me and the friendly Iowa. Why?

Enemy Des Moine pops radar. We hide behind island. Radar stops. We come out from behind island and start sniping at enemy Des Moine who starts to backtrack. Enemy Iowa shows up. Both me and friendly Iowa starts to make a get away. Enemy Iowa puts himself in a very tactically vulnerable position by leaving the cover of the islands to enter the open ocean and the enemy Des Moine is way back behind the islands and cannot fire at us because the Des Moine has no line of sight to fire because of the islands he's hiding behind. Meanwhile enemy Iowa is dodging my torps, I've deployed smoke and both my Akizuki and friendly Iowa are slowly tearing the enemy Iowa to pieces.

That enemy Iowa should be dead because my Akizuki and friendly Iowa should be able to wail on his lonely ass long before the Des Moine is able to dig himself out of the hole he dug himself behind the island and lend supporting fire.

But that's not what happened. Enemy Des Moine pops radar yet again from behind his island hidy spot (we're still within the whopping 10km range of his radar which covers 50% of the map) when we were just recovering from the last radar pop and then I get blown to smithereens because radar penetrates everything known to man except kryptonite and the Des Moine and Iowa then tag team my friendly Iowa and take him down.

Complete and utter rubbish. That's not how tactics work.

The following reforms need to happen to radar to not only make radar more realistic and true to life, but also to avoid rewarding players for bad gameplay and bad tactics:

  1. Radar must NOT penetrate islands. Radar doesn't penetrate islands in real life, definitely not in WWII, there is no reason why it should penetrate islands in WOWS.
  2. Radar must have a longer cool down to avoid people popping it constantly. It's ridiculous. Smoke has a longer cool down than radar and it's not nearly as deadly as radar. Radar should at least have as long a cool down as smoke. Radar should have a longer cool down than smoke.

 

Otherwise we get this stupid situation where a Des Moine player is rewarded for bad gameplay and bad tactics. Pop radar to spot enemies near island. Back away. Wait for enemies to attack your ally who has done something tactically stupid and pop radar again from 10km away behind an island to expose them from behind smoke. Meanwhile, unlike smoke, popping radar from behind an island totally alters the gameplay in your favour and leaves you 100% tactically safe. And in their infinite wisdom, WG has given radar a much shorter cool down than smoke. (Yes smoke has a much longer duration but it is utterly meaningless given radar can cut through it at any time)

It's really important that the cool down and island penetration of radar is adjusted because, unlike smoke, radar has absolutely zero ways to counter in the game. And lazy players use radar repeatedly to put themselves in bad tactical situations and then pop radar constantly to bail themselves out.

I realise WOWS is only a game and a gross simplification of war, but that's not how warfare works. You put yourself in a bad tactical situation in a battle and you die. Radar ain't going to save you.

The game should be about tactics and strategy, not cheap radar tricks for lazy or bad players which have no effective counter other than never attacking the enemy and constantly running away.

 

And for the radar fan boi's out there, I challenge you to consider what WOWS would be like if the game allowed players to lay down a 10km smoke screen in all directions, including through islands, every 120 or 180 seconds. Definitely not fun.

 

My best guess is WG likes people paying money for premium radar so they can troll other players. As long as the cash keeps rolling in via "troll face lols", why change a good thing?

Edited by coldsteelfury

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7 minutes ago, Somedude_Yudachi said:

 

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The cool down on radar is much shorter than smoke. Check out WOWS Wiki for the proof.

As for radar being more deadly than smoke, it's a self evident truth. 10km insta-spot on all ships regardless of whether they're behind an island, versus a limited smoke field which temporarily hides your exact location but the enemy knows you're there.

So, umm like yea.... very sure.

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[1NATN] Bex_o7 176
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I can think of a whole line of DDs that have a far shorter cool down on smoke than... well.... any radar capable ship. So you're factually incorrect on that point. That said, the number of radars in the game is utterly toxic to DD play at T8 and above; on that we agree.

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42 minutes ago, Bex_o7 said:

I can think of a whole line of DDs that have a far shorter cool down on smoke than... well.... any radar capable ship. So you're factually incorrect on that point. That said, the number of radars in the game is utterly toxic to DD play at T8 and above; on that we agree.

Check out the WOWS Wiki.

Smoke generators cool down is 240 seconds across the board. Radar cool down is 180 seconds across the board.

So I'm going to disagree with you based upon the above facts.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Surveillance_Radar_Data

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Smoke_Generator_Data

 

Yes radar is toxic at T8. Even if when you knuckle down as a DD captain and try to make the situation work, you're fighting against a very powerful handicap.

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16 minutes ago, coldsteelfury said:

Check out the WOWS Wiki.

Smoke generators cool down is 240 seconds across the board. Radar cool down is 180 seconds across the board.

So I'm going to disagree with you based upon the above facts.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Surveillance_Radar_Data

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Smoke_Generator_Data

 

Yes radar is toxic at T8. Even if when you knuckle down as a DD captain and try to make the situation work, you're fighting against a very powerful handicap.

Bad idea to push a point when you don't know what you are talking about. You obviously need to look a bit closer at the links your providing.

As @Bex_o7 was saying. All Tech tree Pan Asian DD smoke cooldown is 120 seconds for smoke generator I or 80 seconds for smoke generator II.

Radar across the board is 240 sec cooldown for surveillance radar I or 120 sec for surveillance radar II.

Most decent players will be using premium consumables too for obvious reasons.

So your saying that 80 seconds is much longer than 120 seconds? :Smile_amazed:

smoke.thumb.png.a44bfc04fa73c1bfd53da0a49d018299.png

Edited by HobartAWD

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18 minutes ago, HobartAWD said:

Bad idea to push a point when you don't know what you are talking about. You obviously need to look a bit closer at the links your providing.

All Tech tree Pan Asian DD smoke cooldown is 120 seconds for smoke generator I or 80 seconds for smoke generator II.

Radar across the board is 240 sec cooldown for surveillance radar I or 120 sec for surveillance radar II.

Most decent players will be using premium consumables too for obvious reasons.

So your saying that 80 seconds is much longer than 120 seconds? :Smile_amazed:

smoke.thumb.png.a44bfc04fa73c1bfd53da0a49d018299.png

I think perhaps you don't know what you are talking about.

Pan Asian destroyers are only a sub section of all DDs and are in the minority. Based upon Pan Asian destroyers you get on your high horse and get cocky. My comment is still valid and it's still supported by the facts. Across the board the radar cool down is much shorter than the smoke cool down. This is true of the majority of vessels in the game. The fact Pan Asian destroyers are the exception to the rule is irrelevant, as they do not represent the overwhelming majority of vessels in the game. Your point is like saying China isn't an Asian country because a few black people live there.

The majority of vessels have a smoke cool down of 240 seconds and this is much longer than the radar cool down of 180 seconds. I'm not going to debate semantics about whether you personally feel the difference is significant or not. 60 seconds is a long time in WOWS. Especially for an ability with x-ray vision that has no counter (radar) versus a passive ability (smoke) which can be countered.

Your comment about premium consumables is irrelevant as the same relative relationship exists between smoke and radar. Premium Radar's cool down is still shorter than Premium Smoke.

 

I'll stick to the facts thanks.

 

 

 

 

Edited by coldsteelfury

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It's actually irrelevant whether or not smoke cool down is longer, there are far more radars in the game and their activation is far more devastating than some dd or cruiser popping smoke.. and with every match sporting 3 or 4 clevelands per side.. not much fun either.. 

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19 hours ago, coldsteelfury said:

I think perhaps you don't know what you are talking about.

Pan Asian destroyers are only a sub section of all DDs and are in the minority. Based upon Pan Asian destroyers you get on your high horse and get cocky. My comment is still valid and it's still supported by the facts. Across the board the radar cool down is much shorter than the smoke cool down. This is true of the majority of vessels in the game. The fact Pan Asian destroyers are the exception to the rule is irrelevant, as they do not represent the overwhelming majority of vessels in the game. Your point is like saying China isn't an Asian country because a few black people live there.

The majority of vessels have a smoke cool down of 240 seconds and this is much longer than the radar cool down of 180 seconds. I'm not going to debate semantics about whether you personally feel the difference is significant or not. 60 seconds is a long time in WOWS. Especially for an ability with x-ray vision that has no counter (radar) versus a passive ability (smoke) which can be countered.

Your comment about premium consumables is irrelevant as the same relative relationship exists between smoke and radar. Premium Radar's cool down is still shorter than Premium Smoke.

 

I'll stick to the facts thanks.

I was on your side until you chose to be obstinate about something so trivial.

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23 minutes ago, Bex_o7 said:

I was on your side until you chose to be obstinate about something so trivial.

I'm sorry to hear that but my post was about radar and how it affects gameplay in WOWS. You're feelings towards me is a separate matter to gameplay in WOWS.

If someone says something factually untrue, it's not obstinacy to disagree and refuse to see things their way. If I told you the Sun revolves around the Earth, it's not obstinacy on your part to insist I'm wrong and point to the factual proof which proves how wrong I am.

I agree with you on one point. It's rather sad the overall thrust of my original post has been lost over a, as you've rightly point out, trivial disagreement over cool downs. I'm disappointed that the only thing most other people saw fit to comment upon was the smoke cool down and ignored everything else I said. To my mind, they've missed the point entirely.

The bottom line is radar shouldn't penetrate islands and it's ridiculous that radar can be spammed every 180 seconds (or 120 seconds if premium, which is insane). I referenced the smoke cool down for comparative purposes only.

 

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Totally agree, too many RADARs running around these days, its pointless to play DDs, you cannot really win objectives. If WG is so eager to ruin domination game mode, why don't they just remove it completely and we get full time standard battles. That's what lower skilled player base want anyway.

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