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Sparcie

Izumo: difficult to handle her guns

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Hi all, just got the Izumo after really enjoying the Amagi and have found her to be a giant pain.

Let me qualify what is ok first. She seems to be tanky enough, but really vulnerable to HE, it's easy to get 2 million potential damage no worries.

I feel her slowness is a problem, it's not so much top speed thats an issue, but rather her extremely poor acceleration.

But the part that has me really annoyed is how poorly her guns are behaving. They're like shot guns that can't hit a stationary cruiser at 10k. The numbers don't indicate it should be this bad, but I'm not imagining it. If the centre of the shells lands around the centre of the target (say a largish cruiser like Takao) some shells land so far out as to land near the bow forward of the turrets or far enough astern to be behind the rear turrets. The vertical dispersion is pretty bad too, but not as bad. I know I'd not have a problem hitting the same ships at the same distance in any of my other BBs.

If I could get the guns to work, she'd be ok. I was warned that Izumo is terrible, but I didn't imagine this, and it doesn't seem right given the gun specs. Am I getting my aim wrong despite straddling the targets most shots?

I was wondering if it could be that I need upgrades to make her work better, so I FXPed the B hull which didn't seem to help. Are there any particular build options that are required to make it work properly.

As it stands she's not real fun to play as you can't land a decent shot unless RNG blesses you something fierce. I may just have to sell her and play other ships.

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Super Tester
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First you need to fully upgrade Izumo to actually do anything. Hull B doesn't give you good stuffs, all of the buffs for Izumo are in Hull C apart from the HP.

Then, you need to give her full concealment and survival build. Yes her secondaries can reach 10km+ but they are pointless either way.

Then, make sure you opt out of queue when you see a CV.

:Lastly, listen to your own preaching: "Play selfish", "Learn to deal with it".

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there is actually hidden trick to make ship with pesky dispersion and low sigma firing at least more accurate. just be honest here, normandie have stupid pesky gun. innacurate and really miss. BUT TODAY I AM REALIZE IT AFTER the snail weak Bretagne and AE86 with shotgun normandie....

 

the hints is, "creating shell drop pattern" what kind of drop you want to make?

/ << slash like this?

\ << slash pattern like this?

or simply straight | drop for bowing.

 

maybe i will make thread about that later....

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6 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

First you need to fully upgrade Izumo to actually do anything. Hull B doesn't give you good stuffs, all of the buffs for Izumo are in Hull C apart from the HP.

Then, you need to give her full concealment and survival build. Yes her secondaries can reach 10km+ but they are pointless either way.

Then, make sure you opt out of queue when you see a CV.

:Lastly, listen to your own preaching: "Play selfish", "Learn to deal with it".

You missed my point that time, which was every play is selfish in a way. So basically that could mean anything.

Anyhow I've gone the survivability build already, that was a given as she's easy to set on fire. Concealment? Will that help? She can be seen from near the other side of the map, a shorter distance will likely still have you spotted.Unless of course you snipe from the back. Only got a 10 point captain.

I suspected the upgrades might be the issue, like when Nagato had different shells between different hulls. I can't see any difference in the shells per upgrade for the Izumo however, what does hull C give that B doesn't? Only thing different really is AA, is it perhaps the range upgrade?

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I think you were just unlucky with RNG.

Personally I didn't find anything wrong with Izumo's guns compared to her counterparts. In fact, I found the opposite - she felt pretty accurate thanks to her turrets being located together. Plus her shells have one of the highest, if not the highest, BB shell velocities in the game. Thanks to the fast shells, I found I could hit DDs quite easily assuming RNG didn't decide to screw with me.

6 hours ago, Sparcie said:

I was wondering if it could be that I need upgrades to make her work better, so I FXPed the B hull which didn't seem to help. Are there any particular build options that are required to make it work properly.

C hull just gives more AA and better rudder shift, but otherwise there is no difference from B hull.

As for builds, my suggestion would be to go with concealment and survivability. Survivability will help you deal with fires, but I find the best way to protect yourself from HE spam is to park yourself behind an island that is tall enough while you position in such a way that only your bow and guns are exposed to the enemy. Izumo is extremely tanky against enemy AP when angled bow on - the only AP you should worry about is Musashi/Yamato, but that is true for every other BB anyway. Concealment allows you to sneak to aforementioned island.

Then you just hold the flank like an immovable stone wall. Short of planes or a flanking enemy DD, a properly entrenched Izumo can be extremely hard to dislodge. AP will just bounce off your angled hull or shatter on your guns, or get the odd overpen thanks to your small superstructure. HE will just shatter on your guns and since only your bow is exposed, that is the only place you can be set on fire, and fire-prevention skills can easily handle that. Do watch out for USN cruisers with their orbital arcs though, they can easily hit you behind your island.

Edited by Thyaliad

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7 hours ago, Sparcie said:

Hi all, just got the Izumo after really enjoying the Amagi and have found her to be a giant pain.

Let me qualify what is ok first. She seems to be tanky enough, but really vulnerable to HE, it's easy to get 2 million potential damage no worries.

I feel her slowness is a problem, it's not so much top speed thats an issue, but rather her extremely poor acceleration.

But the part that has me really annoyed is how poorly her guns are behaving. They're like shot guns that can't hit a stationary cruiser at 10k. The numbers don't indicate it should be this bad, but I'm not imagining it. If the centre of the shells lands around the centre of the target (say a largish cruiser like Takao) some shells land so far out as to land near the bow forward of the turrets or far enough astern to be behind the rear turrets. The vertical dispersion is pretty bad too, but not as bad. I know I'd not have a problem hitting the same ships at the same distance in any of my other BBs.

If I could get the guns to work, she'd be ok. I was warned that Izumo is terrible, but I didn't imagine this, and it doesn't seem right given the gun specs. Am I getting my aim wrong despite straddling the targets most shots?

I was wondering if it could be that I need upgrades to make her work better, so I FXPed the B hull which didn't seem to help. Are there any particular build options that are required to make it work properly.

As it stands she's not real fun to play as you can't land a decent shot unless RNG blesses you something fierce. I may just have to sell her and play other ships.

My advice is to use HE on the Izumo. Izumo HE is the fastest IJN BB HE, its alpha and fire chance is way higher than anything in that tier except maybe Lion and Musashi and you don't have to worry about armour angling. The HE will pen everything except broadside BB armour handily and the dot damage from fires is always nice.

Mind you, Id not recommend HE on any other IJN BB (except Ishizuchi) because the HE is horribly slow compared to AP shells on IJN bbs, except Izumo. Switch to AP when BBs and CAs get closer to you.

An Izumo does not have an easy life, you're not the guy carrying the team. Farm damage from enemy bbs like a stereotypical RN BB would do. Thats the best chance of the average player on SEA having a somewhat comfortable experience grinding Izumo.

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Thanks guys that has given me a few ideas to think about. I'll probably subtly change the build I have, more towards concealment, and switch to using HE more, most players are angling fairly well so it makes sense to use it more. I had been trying to use AP as that is what generally works best most of the time on other BBs. I've been trying to use islands to do pretty much what you said, but I'm still learning the best parts of the maps to do that on, as I haven't seen many of these maps very often playing lower ships. Wouldn't you know it, I got ocean like 3 times last night, I haven't seen that map in ages.

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The fast gun velocity is glorious. it eats CA for breakfast and can citadel yamato's on lucky rng occasions. Generally i moonwalk it since I felt it has a much better armor profile reversing, but that would be useful if you are running Engine mod instead of steering. Its biggest problem is garbage concealment(18km vs 13km yamato default kek), torpedo belt and steering(especially without hull C).

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6 hours ago, Sparcie said:

Anyhow I've gone the survivability build already, that was a given as she's easy to set on fire. Concealment? Will that help? She can be seen from near the other side of the map, a shorter distance will likely still have you spotted.Unless of course you snipe from the back. Only got a 10 point captain.

I suspected the upgrades might be the issue, like when Nagato had different shells between different hulls. I can't see any difference in the shells per upgrade for the Izumo however, what does hull C give that B doesn't? Only thing different really is AA, is it perhaps the range upgrade?

Everyone already talked about Hull C. You get HE secondaries (which is a must, AP secondaries deal no damage), you get ruddershift upgrade which is a must. From my experience, the shell behavior is different from C hull and Not-C hull. No mathematical or statistical proof though, just feeling.

Will CE help? Duh, what kind of question is that? Every single ship in the game can benefit from CE. Even the Izumo. If you can drag the detection down to 16 km or below, you still can get into desired position without being spotted by the whole enemy lineup. It helps immensely. Also, why do you have only a 10 point captain on a tier 9 ship. You need to choose flanks carefully. Izumo is very resistant to AP and squishy to HE. Go to the flank of AP spammers.

 

Edited by icy_phoenix

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Using more HE seems to have helped a bit with damage done, it's surprising that HE does more damage but it does.

How did I find out? I had a game last night where a Monarch parked themselves perfectly broadside and almost stationary at 10Km. Perfect target for AP right? I had time for several salvoes and only got misses or scratched paint damage on it. Shoot HE at almost any target and get better damage. Oddly the HE shells also seemed to have better groupings. Frankly I'm surprised my teammate nearby wasn't shooting at him. I might have to try this out in a training room with a number of different targets.

I haven't really had need of the secondaries, so that's not a concern, although the rudder shift on Hull C looks like a nice improvement. I dunno if I wanna trust a feeling about a guns performance after a hull upgrade. But there could be a hidden stat, I guess I will find out when I unlock it. I don't wanna invest any more FreeXP.

I get the feeling that you have to go full concealment (mod, capt skill and camo) to get much benefit from it. I changed to the concealment mod, as the alternative just seemed worthless, and it didn't really make life easier. It only really stopped you getting spotted whilst still in spawn, once the battle is started and you move in to get to concealment or to get a better shot you'll be spotted anyway with around 16km detection. If you have camo and either the CE skill or mod your detection is 16.8Km. It's better to use islands if you can.

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3 hours ago, Sparcie said:

Using more HE seems to have helped a bit with damage done, it's surprising that HE does more damage but it does.

How did I find out? I had a game last night where a Monarch parked themselves perfectly broadside and almost stationary at 10Km. Perfect target for AP right? I had time for several salvoes and only got misses or scratched paint damage on it. Shoot HE at almost any target and get better damage. Oddly the HE shells also seemed to have better groupings. Frankly I'm surprised my teammate nearby wasn't shooting at him. I might have to try this out in a training room with a number of different targets.

I haven't really had need of the secondaries, so that's not a concern, although the rudder shift on Hull C looks like a nice improvement. I dunno if I wanna trust a feeling about a guns performance after a hull upgrade. But there could be a hidden stat, I guess I will find out when I unlock it. I don't wanna invest any more FreeXP.

I get the feeling that you have to go full concealment (mod, capt skill and camo) to get much benefit from it. I changed to the concealment mod, as the alternative just seemed worthless, and it didn't really make life easier. It only really stopped you getting spotted whilst still in spawn, once the battle is started and you move in to get to concealment or to get a better shot you'll be spotted anyway with around 16km detection. If you have camo and either the CE skill or mod your detection is 16.8Km. It's better to use islands if you can.

Pretty much you have to, even then the survival chances are debatable since you rarely can escape into concealment. Seeing the izumo is like seeing Jingles on the enemy team. It get focused a lot especially if first to be spotted and almost always do.

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I took Izumo into a training room yesterday to have a experiment. I used T9 cruisers and battle ships as stationary targets.

Dispersion plays a large part in how effective the AP/HE is. above about 7km AP is not very good against BBs, you can hit the target further than that but do pitiful amounts of damage (0-4k) mostly because the shells disperse and ricochet, shatter or overpen. Occasionally you get something better but don't count on it. Against cruisers it's a bit mixed. If RNG blesses you any range works penetration wise, it's just the probability of shells hitting the right spot decreases severely with range, it can happen just don't expect it to.

HE works better on BBs for initial damage and has a chance to set fires, but damage saturation can be a problem after you've made a few good hits. I don't know, but the better velocity seems to improve the shell groupings. In general you'll sink a BB faster with HE at longer ranges, but sink the cruisers faster with AP as long as you hit.

If it's a race between ships to sink the other Izumo will always lose. It's like taking a three legged blind donkey to a horse race.

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28 minutes ago, Sparcie said:

I took Izumo into a training room yesterday to have a experiment. I used T9 cruisers and battle ships as stationary targets.

Dispersion plays a large part in how effective the AP/HE is. above about 7km AP is not very good against BBs, you can hit the target further than that but do pitiful amounts of damage (0-4k) mostly because the shells disperse and ricochet, shatter or overpen. Occasionally you get something better but don't count on it. Against cruisers it's a bit mixed. If RNG blesses you any range works penetration wise, it's just the probability of shells hitting the right spot decreases severely with range, it can happen just don't expect it to.

HE works better on BBs for initial damage and has a chance to set fires, but damage saturation can be a problem after you've made a few good hits. I don't know, but the better velocity seems to improve the shell groupings. In general you'll sink a BB faster with HE at longer ranges, but sink the cruisers faster with AP as long as you hit.

If it's a race between ships to sink the other Izumo will always lose. It's like taking a three legged blind donkey to a horse race.

I think ichase mentioned that faster shells tend to have bigger vertical dispersions in his videos. Izumo shells also has a larger air drag value so the shells tend to lose pen at longer ranges. At around 10km yamato overtakes the pen values 600/650 or something like that if i recall correctly.

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This might not mean much since I got Izumo far too long ago but I totally agreed with @Thyaliad

Spoiler

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Back then I actually find her very decent so i didn't even spend a single free exp.

The only problem she got is she's too large and easy to burn, but it's the exact same trait as the Yamato, if you hate it, you might not gonna have fun with Yamato either.

I can understand that she's a big drawback from glorious Amagi but still good to play, don't give up on her.

It's highly recommended to play in division so your friend can back you up.

May the RNG be with you

5k98Md1.jpg

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