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Fear_the_Reaper

The Yamoto seems misplaced at T10

Should theYamoto be replaced?   

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  1. 1. Should the Yamoto be dropped to t9 and replaced by the Super Yamoto?


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Beta Tester
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Honestly the Yamoto seems misplaced at t10, it has less power than the t7 Japanese cruiser and only 3 main turrets, personally i think the A-150 Super Yamoto class would be a better T10 Japanese battleship and the Yamoto should be dropped down to tier 9, opinions?

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Background

Initial plans for the A-150 battleships called for eight or nine 510 mm (20.1 in) guns in quadruple or triple turrets. The successful construction of a 480 mm (18.9 in) gun in 1920–1921 made the Japanese confident that a 510 mm (20.1 in) could be built. In addition, a top speed of 30 kn (35 mph; 56 km/h) was desired so that the class would be faster than the United States' 27 kn (31 mph; 50 km/h) North Carolina-class battleships. However, these grand specifications were curtailed when tests culminated in a ship that had a displacement of some 90,000 tons; it was felt that ships of this size would be "too large and too expensive".

Specifications

"Initial design studies were undertaken after the completion of plans for the Yamato class (1938–39); they focused on a ship with a displacement nearer to that of the Yamato '​s.[6] As the Japanese expected that the Americans would be able to obtain the true characteristics of that class (namely the principal armament of 460 mm (18.1 in)), the use of 510 mm guns was vital to keep with Japan's policy of individual ships' superiority over their American counterparts; the A-150s were meant to counter the United States' reply to the Yamatos.

Plans were "essentially completed" sometime in 1941; however, similar to the fate of documents relating to the Yamato class,[7][8] most papers and all plans relating to the class were destroyed at the end of the war, meaning that the full specifications of the ships are not known.[3] It is known the ships would have had greater firepower than the Yamato class: a main battery of six 510 mm (20.1 inch) guns in three twin turrets and a secondary armament of "many" 100 mm (3.9 in)/65 caliber guns. The displacement was to be similar to the Yamato class, which was around 60,000–70,000 tonnes. The side armor belt was probably going to be 460 mm (18 in). This was so large that steel mills in Japan were incapable of manufacturing it; instead, "double strakes of armor plates" were going to be utilized, which would have been much less effective than just one single plate

Armament

Although details of the smaller armament planned for the ships are not given in sources, a main battery of six 510 mm (20.1 in)/45 caliber guns in dual turrets was definitely planned. These would have been the largest ever fitted to a capital ship, dwarfing the 460 mm (18.1 in) guns mounted on the Yamato class. By 1941, one—possibly two—of the 510 mm guns were being constructed at the Kure Naval Arsenal and detailed designs of the turrets that would hold the guns were drawn up. The turrets would have weighed 2,780 tonnes (2,740 long tons) and trained at 2° per second through a range of 120° to port or starboard. The guns themselves could have fired at a maximum rate of 1 to 1.5 rounds per minute and be elevated from -5° to 45°, with the elevation rate being 10° per second. They would have weighed 227 t (223 long tons) and would have been 23.56 m (928 in) long. The bore length was to have been around 22.84 m (899 in). The armor-piercing ammunition would have weighed between 1900 and 2000 kg (4190–4409 lbs), while the high explosive rounds would have been 1,858 kg (4,096 lb).

A secondary battery of "many" 100 mm (3.9 in)/65 caliber guns was being considered, although this was not final. This design was the best anti-aircraft gun produced by Japan during the Second World War. Overall, the weapons compared very well with other contemporary weapons. The key advantages that made it so successful—the "high muzzle velocity and a fast rate of fire"—resulted in a short 350–400-round service life. In anti-aircraft defense, their ceiling at 90° was 13,000 m (43,000 ft), although the effective range was 11,000 m (36,000 ft). They were able to fire 15–21 rounds per minute.[10]

In Battleships: Axis and Neutral Battleships in World War II, authors William H. Garzke and Robert O. Dulin argued that Design A-150 would have been the "most powerful battleships in history" because of the titanic main armament and the use of a dual purpose secondary battery."

Construction

With war on the horizon in early 1941, all design work was diverted from battleships—even though the A-150s' design was virtually complete—so that a demand for "aircraft carriers, cruisers, and smaller ships" could be met. Even though no work was being done on them, two ships of Design A-150, provisionally designated as Warships Number 798 and 799, were projected in a 1942 building program. 798 was to be built in the same dock as Shinano, while 799 was to be built in Kure in the same dock as Yamato after the fourth ship in the class, Warship Number 111, was launched. Both of the ships' keels were supposed to be laid in late 1941 or early 1942, launched in 1944/45, and finished in 1946/47. However, the war's turn against the Japanese after the Battle of Midway meant that the need for ships other than battleships never abated

 
For reference it has been confirmed that the Iowa class battleship will be the American tier 9 (looks like a good match for the Yamoto no? imagine if these beasts ever met)
5yKrbhB.jpg
And the Montana class battleship will be at tier 10. Would seem fair that the Super Yamoto face this beast of a weapon rather than the Yamoto.
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Do not post pictures on the WoWS Asia forums containing the Rising Sun symbol. Picture removed, player warned.

/AALG

Moderation team, WoWS Asia

Edit : please read the rules. Red text warnings and moderation added to a post By moderators or staff, may not be removed.

Edit: my bad i only removed it because it seemed pointless bringing the flag up in the OP for people who have not read the post considering i edited it out of the image making it in no way related to the topic at hand... anyway im atleast moving it to the bottom seen as it was in the middle of the post so its not so much of a distraction lol dun kill me :hiding:

Edited by Fear_the_Reaper
Inappropriate content removed

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Speculation on the NA/EU forums says that it might be dropped to tier 9, and a paper ship in tier 10.

 

Just doesn't feel right not to have the Yamato at tier 10, though :(

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Beta Tester
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Speculation on the NA/EU forums says that it might be dropped to tier 9, and a paper ship in tier 10.

 

Just doesn't feel right not to have the Yamato at tier 10, though :(

 

Yeah i know but the same could be said about tanks like the Maus and E100 in world of tanks, id rather see the Yamoto in a class of ships it can compete with without making its stats blown out of proportion, it should be a ship you use to grind a better ship, not the end result bucause it is not really something anyone will want once the merican/russian/german battleships are on the tech tree

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Super Tester
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Speculation on the NA/EU forums says that it might be dropped to tier 9, and a paper ship in tier 10.

 

Just doesn't feel right not to have the Yamato at tier 10, though

 

I dunno, tier IX and X has always been the fantasy world.

And it's not like there aren't plenty of silly blueprint only vessels available for each nation,

so the Yamato staying at tier X would prolly end up as the oddball among mystical creatures.

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Super Tester
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Having a paper ship at tier 10 would make it balanced with the US tree, if they do decide on making the Montana-class the tier 10 US battleships.

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I dunno, tier IX and X has always been the fantasy world.

And it's not like there aren't plenty of silly blueprint only vessels available for each nation,

so the Yamato staying at tier X would prolly end up as the oddball among mystical creatures.

 

This, There are a lot of really awesome battleships that were never built after it was realised they were obsolete in modern warfare, i would like to see those battleships.

Dont get me wrong the ones that were built are awesome too but the ones that were not would have all made ships like the Yamoto look like toys.

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Whether should Yamato gets down-tiered depends on how far WG decides to set their ship design limit. While there might be many cool warships that out-scales Yamato, I don't like the idea of adding them to the game because I want my Yamato to stay as the biggest ship in-game :trollface:

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From dev QnAs, it is clear what the dev want on as their T10 battleship choice. For JPN : Yamato, for USN : Montanna. I seriously doubt that they would downtier these two.

Essex can be replaced by Midway, because Midway would be a perfect example as T10 carrier. And I think Yamato and Montanna have sturdy places as T10 BBs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Honestly the Yamoto seems misplaced at t10, it has less power than the t7 Japanese cruiser and only 3 main turrets, personally i think the Kirigamine/Shirouma would be a better T10 Japanese battleship and the Yamoto should be dropped down to tier 9, opinions?

Do not post pictures on the WoWS Asia forums containing the Rising Sun symbol. Picture removed, player warned.

/AALG

Moderation team, WoWS Asia

 

Wait... lol.. the rising sun symbol was a HUGE part of the Japanese navy in world war 2... Serious?

How is the rising sun flag offensive in any way to the point where it needs to be censored? (I did not know it was in any way? i covered it up and reposted the picture anywho)

Go find a ww2Japanese ship that lacks a rising sun flag lol it does not seem to happen, is it as bad as the swastika in some peoples eyes or something?

Censoring history gets on my nerves is all... no matter what happened, good or bad it should never be censored.

I have not been having "lest we forget" drilled into my head since i was a child just so i could start forgetting.

Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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Alpha Tester
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The Yamato was the biggest and most powerful battleship ever created and so must be at the very top of tree.

 

Of course, most (if not all) the other tier X BBs will be either paper projects or were converted/never completed, and several of them were designed in response to the Yamato. That said, it can probably remain competitive with a bit of careful tweaking.

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Super Tester
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Yea, pretty much the later (and sometimes mid) tier of certain line were & will be from blueprints and papers. If they can find them since documents were burned by Japanese before U.S. can retrieved them.

If it something to balance the game, WG has the rights.

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Alpha Tester
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Of course, most (if not all) the other tier X BBs will be either paper projects or were converted/never completed, and several of them were designed in response to the Yamato. That said, it can probably remain competitive with a bit of careful tweaking.

As far as arcade video games are concerned, you could have a pre-dreadnought Battleship be equal with the Yamato after some "tweaking" of stats. Keeping the Yamato competitive with fantasy Battleships shouldn't be an issue at all.

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As far as arcade video games are concerned, you could have a pre-dreadnought Battleship be equal with the Yamato after some "tweaking" of stats. Keeping the Yamato competitive with fantasy Battleships shouldn't be an issue at all.

 

Arcade or not, there is still the expectation that these ships will approximately correspond to their RL counterparts, and that means that you cannot simply tweak every parameter as you'd like, they have to stay within a certain range. WG have sold us that premise for the past 4+ years across their games, its part of the reason WoT was so popular, and its part of the reason so many people are interested in WoWS. As of the current patch, many of the things being complained about are the ones that dont adequately represent RL (torp bombers and Japanese DD turrets spring to mind). Just because the audience doesnt want a full blown simulator, doesnt mean they'll accept any sort of nonsense under the guise of "arcade game".

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The Yamato could potentially be equated to the Maus in WoT. Like the Maus the Yamato could be one big massive damage sponge and given it took about 11 torps and 6 bombs to sink then it certainly could take a beating.

 

Given the time frame the game is set it is quite appropriate to have the pinnacle of battleships to be at the top and at end of the line. Move too far past WW2 and the whole concept of BB's is obsolete.

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Super Tester
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Go find a ww2Japanese ship that lacks a rising sun flag lol it does not seem to happen, is it as bad as the swastika in some peoples eyes or something?

 

Yes, especially in countries like Korea, China, Malaysia, etc.

 

Go download the mod that puts it back in and apply some cream, simple. Are you that lazy to download a couple of MB?

 

 

Edited by ExESGO

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Yes, especially in countries like Korea, China, Malaysia, etc.

 

Go download the mod that puts it back in and apply some cream, simple. Are you that lazy to download a couple of MB?

 

 

 

ExESGO, he's referring to historical images. In game sure but he's right, it would be like trying to find a moon landing without the US flag.

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Yes, especially in countries like Korea, China, Malaysia, etc.

 

Go download the mod that puts it back in and apply some cream, simple. Are you that lazy to download a couple of MB?

 

 

 

Huh? the picture i posted in the OP had rising sun flags on the ships, i was asking why it would not be allowed to post images of japanese ships with those flags considering all of them had those flags lol, i am not questioning why it is not in the game?

it is like trying to find a picture of a Nazi without a Swastika is all, plus it is not like i personally draw images of ships and add rising sun flags it is simply historically correct so when people do draw ships they add them. kind of like American ships are drawn with American flags and so on.

 

So what other flags are politically incorrect lol?

Im Australian we are hard to offend so we are fairly ignorant on these matters

Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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ExESGO, he's referring to historical images. In game sure but he's right, it would be like trying to find a moon landing without the US flag.

 

I'm just putting it there so I don't need to repeat it if the time comes.

 

 

Huh? the picture i posted in the OP had rising sun flags on the ships, i was asking why it would not be allowed to post images of japanese ships with those flags considering all of them had those flags lol, i am not questioning why it is not in the game?

it is like trying to find a picture of a Nazi without a Swastika is all, plus it is not like i personally draw images of ships and add rising sun flags it is simply historically correct so when people do draw ships they add them. kind of like American ships are drawn with American flags and so on.

 

So what other flags are politically incorrect lol?

Im Australian we are hard to offend so we are fairly ignorant on these matters

 

Because to a fair amount of those who survived the war, it pretty much is. The Kempeitai, the comfort women, massacres, etc. Personally, I don't care, but there are people who care and are willing to go to court for it (I think most of the animosity stems from Japan not admitting things, unlike Germany, plus there are countries at odds with each other still around [Korea, China and Japan]). Well, Australia wasn't occupied, so it is understandable.

 

Give it another generation or so, then things should die down for the Rising Sun Flag. For the Nazi flag, different story as it is law.

 

 

Edited by ExESGO

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Wait... lol.. the rising sun symbol was a HUGE part of the Japanese navy in world war 2... Serious?

How is the rising sun flag offensive in any way to the point where it needs to be censored? (I did not know it was in any way? i covered it up and reposted the picture anywho)

Go find a ww2Japanese ship that lacks a rising sun flag lol it does not seem to happen, is it as bad as the swastika in some peoples eyes or something?

Censoring history gets on my nerves is all... no matter what happened, good or bad it should never be censored.

I have not been having "lest we forget" drilled into my head since i was a child just so i could start forgetting.

 

Its simple, the rising sun symbol can and does create emotional distress among residents of several countries serviced by this server. WG has removed the Rising Sun symbol for that reason, from the game, and stated that it will not be displayed ingame by default, nor on any of the WG communications platforms. WG has also stated that modding the game to display it locally on your client, is allowed, but screenshots or pictures of such a mod, as well as pictures containing the Rising Sun symbol will not be allowed on the forums.

You may disagree with that decision, but it will not be changed.

/AALG

Moderation team, WoWS Asia

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I'm just putting it there so I don't need to repeat it if the time comes.

 

 

Because to a fair amount of those who survived the war, it pretty much is. The Kempeitai, the comfort women, massacres, etc. Personally, I don't care, but there are people who care and are willing to go to court for it (I think most of the animosity stems from Japan not admitting things, unlike Germany, plus there are countries at odds with each other still around [Korea, China and Japan]). Well, Australia wasn't occupied, so it is understandable.

 

Give it another generation or so, then things should die down for the Rising Sun Flag. For the Nazi flag, different story as it is law.

 

 

Makes sense

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So what about the US flag? I'm pretty sure it cause emotional distress among some countries in the world in general and a few countries in Asia in specific. I can point out a few like North Korea and Vietnam. Being Vietnamese, I have visited some area whose people will burst out in fit of anger at the sight of the US flag. So do we have to start censoring the Star-Sprangled Banner too because a few people who, mind you, probably aren't even playing this game anyway, find it discomforting?

Edited by BloodySteel

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