Secondary build skills

[DinJoe]

I'm currently finishing up with the Bayern. According to my calculations I would end up with 12-13 point captain(even if I use all the commander experience multipliers) when I begin the Bismarck which means that I wouldn't be able to get the next four point skill for a long time.

My current captain: Preventive maintainence, Turret traverse and Basic firing training.

Assuming that I will only have one four point skill in the Bismarck and I'm  set on going only secondary build on the Bismarck, please suggest if I should go with Manual secondaries OR Advanced firing training.

I'm kind of leaning toward Manual secondaries because I would like better dispersion and the fact that I can get 9.0km secondary range with the secondary range upgrade. But correct me if I'm wrong.

[cplbao]

I suggest you test out a gneisanu match first.... asia u need ce above everything, unless u are going for pve. On the bayern itself though the secondary works as it has a good concealment already at 13.9km

[DinJoe]

I'll see then.

Then should I not go for the secondary build at all?

[ahwai82]

19 minutes ago, DinJoe said:

I'll see then.

Then should I not go for the secondary build at all?

i suggest SI over BFT, then go for CE and 14th point take AFT

secondary build can be useful but its usefulness is quite limited, you wont find many match a close brawling especially playing bismarck in T10

[Thyaliad]

2 hours ago, DinJoe said:

I'll see then.

Then should I not go for the secondary build at all?

Go for it if you want. Just know that a Concealment/Survivability build generally fares better than a full Secondary build, even for German BBs.

I go for Secondary builds because they are so much fun when you manage to get them working.

As for your original question, it is hard to say. On one hand, Secondary builds don't really shine until you get the Manual Secondaries skill. On the other hand, Advanced Firing Training also benefits your AA which coupled with Basic Firing Training makes your BB quite a good AA ship, plus the Secondary Range upgrade + AFT + flag can push your Secondary range beyond 11km on the Bismarck which is pretty hilarious.

It is up to player preference which one to take first, but I would suggest getting both eventually.

Anyway my current 17-point FDG captain is running dual planes, Adrenaline Rush, Superintendent, Basic Firing Training, Advanced Firing Training, Manual Secondaries. My last 2 points will probably be spent on Expert Marksman or High Alert or something, I haven't decided yet. I might even go for Priority Target or Preventive Maintenance.

[Gummiheng]

Go without manual secondaries i suggest, sure wider dispersion but at least is not limited to only a single target you clicked on 

[Lowyat]

It was hillarious when manual secondary secondary accuracy was default secondary dps before the skill intro and nerfed. I'd take my chances of rushing dds on it 

[PeterMoe1963]

18 hours ago, DinJoe said:

please suggest if I should go with Manual secondaries OR Advanced firing training.

A few thoughts.

At the moment you can re-shuffle captain skills for free – I would recommend you try a few combinations to see what you like.

There is the Gneisenau at T7 between Bayern at T6 and Bismarck at T8, but you realize that, I’m sure.

A secondaries build works well during a brawl or when you are rushed / ambushed by a DD. Now ask yourself, how often does that happen to you?

I still have some of my KM BB’s with AFT, like Bayern/Gneisenau/Bismarck, but there are many games when the secondaries don’t fire a single shot, simply because no ship gets close enough… Still, I enjoy when the secondaries go off.

Yes, the people who recommend CE are probably right, because not being spotted (or spotted later) is an advantage in every single game.

But isn’t the game about having fun? I do like my AFT! If I have caused 10k secondaries damage in one game, I’m happy, even if it’s a loss.

Manual secondaries – Hmm, I’m not sure about that one. You limit your fire to one ship, and increase accuracy for the one target. I have never selected that myself, I guess I should really try, especially now when the re-shuffle is free!

[DinJoe]

I just tried concealment expert and my performance improved quite a bit, so I think I'll go for a concealment/tank build now. Also noticed that it is pretty hard to get within 10km of an enemy ship without concealment expert skill. Thanks for the advice!

[PeterMoe1963]

21 hours ago, DinJoe said:

Also noticed that it is pretty hard to get within 10km of an enemy ship without concealment expert skill.

Haha, but unless you have a 14+ pt captain, having CE means you cannot have AFT. Now you have to come within 5km for your secondaries to go off. I don't think you want that, ahaha.

[Kapitan_Zur_See_Hoffmann]

My 19 pt kap for Bismarck

Pm, AR, Bft, Aft, Ms, Bs, Ha, 

Reasons? Cause the Bismarck has one of the better secondaries, and with hydro can bully the dds at the cap. When they come under secondary fire they usually bail. True secondary build can be situational, but it's a blast when it works.

 

 

 

[Darkworld_2015]

My Bismarck build: (19 points captain)

PM

AR

SI

AFT, MS, CE. 

It fairs better in tier 10 battles with concealment expert, but I'm too stubborn to give up manual secondaries on German Battleships. 

I agree with what Flamu (youtuber for WOWS): skills that are situational aren't as beneficial as those which have impact all the time. 

[Pocket_Fox]

I think Notser says the same.

 

I'm always annoyed with my cruisers. Take hydro....carriers in the match.  Take Def AA and im like 3km from a DD in smoke....uughhh!!! >.<

[Darkworld_2015]

3 hours ago, Pocket_Fox said:

I think Notser says the same.

 

I'm always annoyed with my cruisers. Take hydro....carriers in the match.  Take Def AA and im like 3km from a DD in smoke....uughhh!!! >.<

I feel you, mate XD 

[Thyaliad]

On 16/02/2018 at 11:57 AM, PeterMoe1963 said:

Manual secondaries – Hmm, I’m not sure about that one. You limit your fire to one ship, and increase accuracy for the one target. I have never selected that myself, I guess I should really try, especially now when the re-shuffle is free!

I would say it is better for the higher tier ships like Bismarck and Tirpitz.

Not just about the accuracy bonus, but because at the higher tiers if you find yourself in a situation where your secondaries are firing on both sides of the ship, chances are you already dead.

Also the accuracy bonus is nothing to scoff at. You start racking up the hits even on WASDing DDs, and against cruisers it can be absolutely brutal. It is like having a HE firing cruiser strapped to the sides of the ship.

 

 

 

[HobartAWD]

38 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

I would say it is better for the higher tier ships like Bismarck and Tirpitz.

Not just about the accuracy bonus, but because at the higher tiers if you find yourself in a situation where your secondaries are firing on both sides of the ship, chances are you already dead.

Also the accuracy bonus is nothing to scoff at. You start racking up the hits even on WASDing DDs, and against cruisers it can be absolutely brutal. It is like having a HE firing cruiser strapped to the sides of the ship.

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more! It doesn't suit everyone's play style but I know on my Tirpitz that having manual sec and getting a free Nurnberg cruiser strapped to the ship really increases my damage per game and gives the DDs something to think about.

I wish manual sec could fire at one target per side of the ship....... maybe one day.

[PeterMoe1963]

2 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

I would say it is better for the higher tier ships like Bismarck and Tirpitz.

Is there not 20% range increase with AFT you don't get with MFT?
 

 

2 hours ago, HobartAWD said:

really increases my damage per game

In the games you have ships coming that close.

[HobartAWD]

47 minutes ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

Is there not 20% range increase with AFT you don't get with MFT?
 

 

In the games you have ships coming that close.

Sorry I didn't say my full build. I have BFT and AFT and then man sec also.

As far as the range goes. If a ship doesn't get under 10.7 km to me in a Tirpitz game, then you are playing it wrong.

[Thyaliad]

2 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

Is there not 20% range increase with AFT you don't get with MFT?
 

I don't quite follow. 

What I meant is the 15% accuracy increase provided by Manual Secondaries for tier 1-6 ships is not worth 4 points. The 60% increase for tier 7 ships and higher is worth it though.

Also at the low tiers it is possible to get into a situation where your secondaries are firing on both sides and live to tell the tale. But at the higher tiers you probably won't survive that situation since ships are more deadly and players are more experienced. So having secondaries fire on only one side is not a big drawback.

In short, if your captain is grinding up the line, pick Manual as the 2nd 4-point skill, not the first. My personal preference is AFT first then Manual, for the reasons I stated above.

4 hours ago, HobartAWD said:

I wish manual sec could fire at one target per side of the ship....... maybe one day.

Manual AA received a similar buff so who knows. 

[HobartAWD]

3 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

In short, if your captain is grinding up the line, pick Manual as the 2nd 4-point skill, not the first. My personal preference is AFT first then Manual, for the reasons I stated above

+1

By selecting AFT first, by the time you get to the Gneisenau (my opinion the 1st ship worth having it due to the T7+ 60% dispersion reduction) and up select manual sec as soon as you can.

2 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

In the games you have ships coming that close.

If I had gone a different build with my commander, sure I could snipe and never close with the enemy......... but why play a ship line with awesome turtleback armour and great secondaries if you only want to keep your distance from every target? If you want to do that play a different line. Plus German BB dispersion will troll you all day when you try to play as a sniper at max range.

Every line has a different flavour and a different play style, that is the point. Right tool for the right job. If you want to get in close you want a German BB.

[Harpoon01]

Warning, half of the German Battleship's Secondaries Load AP shells, very small AP shells, smaller than DD guns, do literally nothing other than scratching enemy DD

[Hey_Potato]

Better try it now in PT server while it last 

[PeterMoe1963]

12 hours ago, HobartAWD said:

Sorry I didn't say my full build. I have BFT and AFT and then man sec also.

As far as the range goes. If a ship doesn't get under 10.7 km to me in a Tirpitz game, then you are playing it wrong.

Thant means 14 pt captain, minimum. Not everybody has that, I don't. If you have to weigh up range vs control, I don't think that is a one-fits-all.

I agree that Tirpitz are good brawlers and get more dangerous the closer they get, but "playing it wrong" may be a bit strong. "Getting close" is very situational.

[PeterMoe1963]

13 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

I don't quite follow.

“I don't quite follow.”

 

I try to explain:

 

AFT increases the range of secondaries 20%

 

MFT decreases dispersion 15% or 60%, depending on tier

 

Unless you have at least a 14 pt captain, you have to decide if you want to increase range or decrease dispersion. If you have a 14 pt captain, you can have both skills.

[Thyaliad]

13 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

Unless you have at least a 14 pt captain, you have to decide if you want to increase range or decrease dispersion. If you have a 14 pt captain, you can have both skills.

Yup. Imo you should be getting both eventually, but my preference is AFT first then Manual second.

AFT has the benefit of buffing your AA, plus I like the increased secondary range. But ultimately it is down to personal preference which you get first.