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yobbo1972

radar ships unbalanced teams

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Just a question for you guys out there.

Who thinks  that it is  a bit unfair and unbalanced, when one team gets more radar ships than the other team?

for example,  one team gets 4-5 radar ships and the other team gets 1 maybe 2 radar ships 

I have been on both sides when this has happened and more often than not the team with more radar ships tend to win the battle.

I am hopping the WG can do something about the unbalanced and unfairness of these teams and make it more even and fair.

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I'm sure if they add anther algorithm to the MM then we stand to face long queue times.  I've been lucky lately and haven't faced too many radar ships and the teams have been switched on enough to focus the radar ships.

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what ship you are in? DD? ITS TIME TO GET KHABAROVSK!!!

no need to concealment! this khabarovsk can rekt the entire team! even henry4 cannt do a sheet againts it.

 

who can counter khabarovsk??? 

its basically a cruiser without citadel.... WG keep nerfing it lol

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3 hours ago, Skarhabek said:

what ship you are in? DD? ITS TIME TO GET KHABAROVSK!!!

no need to concealment! this khabarovsk can rekt the entire team! even henry4 cannt do a sheet againts it.

 

who can counter khabarovsk??? 

its basically a cruiser without citadel.... WG keep nerfing it lol

another khabab, cv or usn bb

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The prevalence of radar in high tier games in positively toxic to gameplay in general. It is not uncommon to see only 1 or 2 DDs per team as they are often entirely un-fun to play. So whilst I agree that an imbalance of radar ships is problematic, addressing that is like giving a man with a broken leg some panadol to take the pain away.

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Yeah I've had games with 5+ radar and enemy has 0-1 and vice versa...

It doesn't mean you'll win but sure as hell helps! Specially in domination.

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21 hours ago, Skarhabek said:

what ship you are in? DD? ITS TIME TO GET KHABAROVSK!!!

no need to concealment! this khabarovsk can rekt the entire team! even henry4 cannt do a sheet againts it.

 

who can counter khabarovsk??? 

its basically a cruiser without citadel.... WG keep nerfing it lol

I remember I delet khaba 1 shot with Conqueror lol

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I'd like to see hydro removed from all DD's and radar detection radius from ships like Moskva made substantially smaller. 11.7km? radar range is just ridiculous. 

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it can  make life very difficult for DDs when the enemy DD has hydro I will agree.

yes, radar range is just about the same range as a lot of DD gun ranges are.

if all radar ranges were under 10km I'm sure most would be happy with that 

or make them the same ranges as the tier of the ship using it??

na I its ok for radar to be able to go thru islands as well so players get an idea where the DD is.

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On 2/14/2018 at 12:25 AM, Bex_o7 said:

The prevalence of radar in high tier games in positively toxic to gameplay in general. It is not uncommon to see only 1 or 2 DDs per team as they are often entirely un-fun to play. So whilst I agree that an imbalance of radar ships is problematic, addressing that is like giving a man with a broken leg some panadol to take the pain away.

It's not that DD's aren't fun, they are just more difficult to be successful in than BB's, and are very punishing of positional mistakes.  Hence many people who aren't confident they will succeed in a DD play other ships instead.

As for radar, coming from a DD main, I honestly don't think it's unbalanced or OP.  It's stupid that it goes through islands, but apart from that it is quite a good balancing mechanic.  Since it is a direct counter to DD's, you need to be aware of which ships could have radar, what the ranges and durations of the radars are for each ship, likely spots on each map for those radar ships to be, and where those ships are or were last seen.  This honestly adds depth to the game.

The only time I struggle with radar is when I am coming up against radar ships covering a cap and my cruisers and BB's don't push up to an appropriate position.  You need some support from your team to ensure you can get in an appropriate position to contest the cap.  Even then this isn't a problem with the radar mechanic, it's a problem with poor play by the team, but it's the radar that determines your operating area in this situation.

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2 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

It's not that DD's aren't fun, they are just more difficult to be successful in than BB's, and are very punishing of positional mistakes. 

Isn't that just making my case? I mean, that would seem rather imbalanced on the face of it. This is supposed to be a game of rock/paper/scissors but it's increasingly becoming a game of rock for the very reason you outlined.

Absence of radar would bring further relevance to CVs, too. Instead of just being that thing at the back of the map you can do nothing about for the lion's share of the match, it would be integral to team play, providing spotting intel as required.

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7 minutes ago, Bex_o7 said:

Isn't that just making my case? I mean, that would seem rather imbalanced on the face of it. This is supposed to be a game of rock/paper/scissors but it's increasingly becoming a game of rock for the very reason you outlined.

Absence of radar would bring further relevance to CVs, too. Instead of just being that thing at the back of the map you can do nothing about for the lion's share of the match, it would be integral to team play, providing spotting intel as required.

Being difficult to play well and easily punished doesn't mean they aren't fun.  Quite the opposite in fact, it's more exciting generally to play a class that is so easy to kill, and it's more enjoyable to be successful with a difficult class.

This game is not rock/paper/scissors, it hasn't been since closed beta.  Every ship has their strengths and weaknesses, generally loosely based on class, but there are plenty of ships whose main focus is not on what you what you would consider their classic counter.

Radar is a massively better spotting ability than having a CV.  I'd much rather never see a CV again and have a ton of radar ships in every battle.  Good play as a DD will minimise the impact of radar.  There is no good play as a DD that will minimise the impact of a CV that wants you dead, short of staying near your AA ships, which makes you pointless.  CV's ruin good game play, radar enables depth to play because it can be minimised by good play by the ships it is designed to counter.

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1 hour ago, Moggytwo said:

Being difficult to play well and easily punished doesn't mean they aren't fun.  Quite the opposite in fact, it's more exciting generally to play a class that is so easy to kill, and it's more enjoyable to be successful with a difficult class.

This game is not rock/paper/scissors, it hasn't been since closed beta.  Every ship has their strengths and weaknesses, generally loosely based on class, but there are plenty of ships whose main focus is not on what you what you would consider their classic counter.

Radar is a massively better spotting ability than having a CV.  I'd much rather never see a CV again and have a ton of radar ships in every battle.  Good play as a DD will minimise the impact of radar.  There is no good play as a DD that will minimise the impact of a CV that wants you dead, short of staying near your AA ships, which makes you pointless.  CV's ruin good game play, radar enables depth to play because it can be minimised by good play by the ships it is designed to counter.

Not rock/paper/scissors eh?

Whether or not it is fun is entirely subjective. I'm truly happy for you if you're happy with the state of play but that doesn't mean it's balanced. The fact that radar is far more effective than CV spotting is, once again, entirely my point. One final thing, because I think this exchange has run its course, you keep banging on about 'difficult + challenging = fun' but are absolutely fine with a mechanic in game that is neither difficult or challenging to use effectively. Seems like a strange position to take.

Edited by Bex_o7

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1 hour ago, Bex_o7 said:

Not rock/paper/scissors eh?

Whether or not it is fun is entirely subjective. I'm truly happy for you if you're happy with the state of play but that doesn't mean it's balanced. The fact that radar is far more effective than CV spotting is, once again, entirely my point. One final thing, because I think this exchange has run its course, you keep banging on about 'difficult + challenging = fun' but are absolutely fine with a mechanic in game that is neither difficult or challenging to use effectively. Seems like a strange position to take.

Yeah fun is subjective. Some people like a challenge but others may not.

Case in point: CVs. I know some people don't like to play CVs precisely because they are harder to use.

Some may do, but others won't.

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The problem with DD's, same as CV's, is they are so influential on the course of the game. Good DD play wins you the game by spotting and capping.

DD's, though, are so highly reliant on good support to operate effectively. Radar cruisers are a definite threat, but they are massively squishly. Yet the number of times I've seen a New Orleans or similar reverse backwards out from behind an island to shoot at a capping DD it's radar has lit up, and get away with it, is baffling.

The issue, as always, is BBs sitting so far back they cannot punish cruisers that misplay. And as a DD player it just makes the game massively frustrating. As that Nagato that is sitting in spawn is probably the same player criticising you in chat for not capping or spotting. If BB players were more intelligent with their positioning and in particular set up cross fires across caps, Radar Cruisers would be far less of a threat.

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1 hour ago, Bex_o7 said:

Not rock/paper/scissors eh?

Whether or not it is fun is entirely subjective. I'm truly happy for you if you're happy with the state of play but that doesn't mean it's balanced. The fact that radar is far more effective than CV spotting is, once again, entirely my point. One final thing, because I think this exchange has run its course, you keep banging on about 'difficult + challenging = fun' but are absolutely fine with a mechanic in game that is neither difficult or challenging to use effectively. Seems like a strange position to take.

That's a pre-release video, the game is completely different now.

I didn't mean radar was more effective than CV spotting, I said "Radar is a massively better spotting ability than having a CV".  I realise I worded that poorly, the meaning was that radar is massively better for the game than CV spotting.  This is because it's predictable and you can play around it with good positioning.  CV spotting is terrible for the game, because you can't counterplay it as a DD.  CV's really make the game better for no other class by their presence through enabling interesting game play or tactics, yet they make the game much worse for all due to the influence they have over the battle.

Also, saying using radar is not difficult or challenging isn't quite right.  It's not hard to press the key, but the difficult part is getting yourself into a position where you can use it and safely getting out again once you have used it without getting destroyed.  Radar ships are extremely popular targets.

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7 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

That's a pre-release video, the game is completely different now.

I didn't mean radar was more effective than CV spotting, I said "Radar is a massively better spotting ability than having a CV".  I realise I worded that poorly, the meaning was that radar is massively better for the game than CV spotting.  This is because it's predictable and you can play around it with good positioning.  CV spotting is terrible for the game, because you can't counterplay it as a DD.  CV's really make the game better for no other class by their presence through enabling interesting game play or tactics, yet they make the game much worse for all due to the influence they have over the battle.

Also, saying using radar is not difficult or challenging isn't quite right.  It's not hard to press the key, but the difficult part is getting yourself into a position where you can use it and safely getting out again once you have used it without getting destroyed.  Radar ships are extremely popular targets.

Completely different? No, not really. Unless of course you mean radar, because that was added after release. So again, thanks for proving my point; the game has been taken from rock/paper/scissors to increasingly just rock. The catalyst for change was radar and its increasing use from first cruisers, then BBs and finally DDs. Hell, there were even shore based installations of a sort for a while there.

CV's can be countered by shooting down planes, they also can't be everywhere all the time so the argument that a team stays perma spotted because of a CV is well... silly. Even in the only Team Battles season, when CV's were permitted, only very good CV captains could keep up with the spotting demands of their team and that was just 7 vs 7. Moreover, DD's can indeed shoot down planes, they can even do it from the relative safety of smoke. I mean come on, you know this. Conversely, radar's only limitations are range and duration. If you are in its scope of influence there is no counter. 

Regarding the last comment, please do not tell me how to suck eggs. After 10K+ games I'm familiar with the how and what. 

With that all said and done, can we just move on now and agree to disagree? Great.

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2 minutes ago, Bex_o7 said:

With that all said and done, can we just move on now and agree to disagree? Great.

Sure, we disagree.

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21 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

Sure, we disagree.

This...

DDs while fairly influential are hard countered by radar... CVs, not so much

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