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scommy

The state of this game

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I gave up playing for a while and today decided to try a few games.

 

I was dismayed to find the same old things that compelled me to give up were still in full force.

 

Belfasts and the like simply parking up in the centre of map and camping smokescreens are able to totally dominate the game. They can shoot with impunity for the duration of a game without being shot at.

 

Why on earth would the developers put so much money and attention to detail into this game only to have to dominated by such an absurdly simple tactic?

Edited by scommy

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4 minutes ago, SlamUez said:

Torp the smoke. Ap fire into smoke. 

 

Yeah tried that many times. The problem is you expose yourself to a devastating amount of gunfire from the smokescreen camper(s) in the process. All for a minimal random chance of doing any damage. 

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8 minutes ago, scommy said:

Yeah tried that many times. The problem is you expose yourself to a devastating amount of gunfire from the smokescreen camper(s) in the process. All for a minimal random chance of doing any damage. 

In what ship and how? 

Not minimal when you can multicrit with a nagato or something higher tier. 

 

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[1AN-E]
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Random firing into smoke is not recommended, I agree it is not useful.

BUT by carefully watching the smoke in zoom view, you can determine if the ship whihc is firing from inside smoke is moving, and if it IS moving, you can also figure out which direction the ship is moving.

Use that intel to fire into the smoke - it is a VERY successful strategy and will at least stop the Belfast from firing at you, because we Belfast captains know that you have located us, so we have to stop firing or we will get deleted by blind fire. 

And yes as @SlamUez has pointed out, you can get some pretty hardcore damage by firing into smoke. You can be in almost anything - don't need a Nagato can have any decent cruiser and even a DD if it's well hidden from retaliatory fire.

But even if you miss the blind shot, you will get closer than merely randomly spamming the smoke with guns. And getting a shot close to the ship in smoke has a good chance of scaring them into not firing for a bit.

However this won't be often a useful strategy if you're in a DD, because you will be fired on by the enemy and prob deleted. In that situation, use the intel about ship location in smoke to send torps - this has a very high chance of hitting and/or forcing any cruiser out of smoke. Also, if you are in a DD and not detected as you approach the smoke, remember the Belfast will become visible to you after it fires its guns - provided you are within 5.5km - and that will then allow your friendlies to punish the Belfast who is sitting still, or maybe moving very slowly - and this is all without you firing and being detected yourself

Edited by LargerNeptune3

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talk about belfast why don't talk about minotaur cuz mino only ap ?
how bout des moines?
i don't find that belfast is a thread
it depends on what you are playing mainly but yeah belfast isn't so much of a pain its counted as pay to win but still it doesn't seem worser than some other ships in comparison like desmoines

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Belfast is a pretty strong ship, but is reliant on other ships to do the spotting for it whilst in smoke. Sure if you're trying to rush it and get into radar range than that's on the player for making a foolish play, everyone knows Belfast has radar.

If you're detected whilst the Belfast is in smoke, then see if there is a spotter plane around and take it out. Belfast can't see you then.

As people have said multiple times on multiple threads - torp the smoke. Sure they have hydro but who knows they may not pay attention and get hit... or they will panic leave the smoke and then you can pick them off.

 

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Learn the weaknesses of radar and sonar ships and acct accordingly.  Belfast is strong firepower wise.. but, is paper thin with no repair.

 

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Bait out the radar, the you have 2minutes of freedom to kill them.

Or you could go elsewhere.

Belfast is still 'OP' but much easier to deal with since smoke changes. If you get within 5km and he's firing, you spot him.

Edited by S4pp3R

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Thanks for the suggestions. Shooting the spotter ship sounds good, the thing is there is usually a CV so you get spotted by planes anyways. Getting within 5km is not easy to do whilst taking withering fire. I do shoot to where the gunfire flashes are in the smoke but its seems to result in only a few hits.

The thing is all these options expose you to significant amounts of fire. My Shchors and Myoko just get annihilated by Belfasts in smoke. 

I dunno, I can always just play tier 5 ships I guess. I like my Kirov.

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5 minutes ago, scommy said:

 I do shoot to where the gunfire flashes are in the smoke but its seems to result in only a few hits.

Sometimes its just not worth shooting on something you know your gonna have issues in hitting. Disengage and re-position elsewhere or just open up on other targets. 

Remember when your shooting into the smoke he can see you, even when not in radar range. Smoke only obscures the person shooting in, not the other way around... which is a silly thing. But it is what it is.

 

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1 hour ago, Kamanah said:

Sometimes its just not worth shooting on something you know your gonna have issues in hitting. Disengage and re-position elsewhere or just open up on other targets. 

Remember when your shooting into the smoke he can see you, even when not in radar range. Smoke only obscures the person shooting in, not the other way around... which is a silly thing. But it is what it is.

 

Yikes and thanks I will remember that about shooting into smoke lighting me up - did not realise that!

Is there a way to resign a game if the other team has a Belfast or two? 

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5 hours ago, scommy said:

Belfasts and the like simply parking up in the centre of map and camping smokescreens are able to totally dominate the game. They can shoot with impunity for the duration of a game without being shot at.

Smoke camping meta is not as bad as it was before.

We now have the "smoke detection while firing radius", the range wherein you can get spotted even while shooting inside or behind the smokescreen.

Example, you can spot Mikhail Kutuzov if you're within 7.7 km from him, for Zao it's about 8.6 km iirc.

So if you have stealthy ships like destroyers nearby enemy ships in smokescreens, you can shoot at them no problem.

Don't even get me started on the battleships, because BBs have such a massive smoke detection radius that it's highly impractical for them to stay in the smokescreen while firing. You only smoke BBs to take the heat away from them and cover their retreat as they heal.

 

As for firing into smoke, I recommend holding your fire until the smoke screen dissipates or until you have DDs take advantage of the smoke firing detection radius to spot for you.

ANOTHER key solution is the Spotter Plane Consumable. Not only does it increase your gun range, it also changes your view to a more top-down position. You have the Shchors, so I believe you know what I'm talking about here.

So whenever you see a ship firing within a smokescreen, you use the spotter plane, take a good look at the line of guns firing from within the smoke to check his position, and fire.

Even if you don't manage to kill the enemy ship, the relatively more accurate gunfire will force the ship to retreat to a more defensive position.

Flamu provides a more comprehensive explanation in this video. You should watch this to learn more about using the Spotter Plane and firing into smoke.

 

 

1 hour ago, Kamanah said:

Remember when your shooting into the smoke he can see you, even when not in radar range. Smoke only obscures the person shooting in, not the other way around... which is a silly thing. But it is what it is.

Hahahaha, no.

 

You are absolutely blind if you are inside the smoke screen. You have to rely on teammates to spot for you. If you're alone, you cannot do a thing. Radar and hydro last for a limited time only.

If you encounter a Belfast, first have a DD get about 7km to spot it while firing in the smoke. This pressures the Belfast to use radar to detect the DD, but if the DD is not braindead he can dodge incoming fire and escape.

But at that point Belfast has already been spotted and will go back into concealment in 20 seconds. You focus fire on the ship within that time.

Radar would be on cooldown for the next few minutes, so if the Belfast is stubborn and would not move from his position, the DD can spot him much, much more easily.

Even if he is concealed in the smoke once again, the Spotter Plane gives you a good idea of his position so you can shell him continuously. it normally lasts around 100 seconds, but by then ships like the Shchors would have fired TWELVE salvos in the smoke.

Twelve INFORMED salvos, mind you.

If the ship is not yet dead, then at least it would be significantly damaged and be forced to retreat to a more defensive position.

Edited by seiji09

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Here I am as a DD main thinking, radar is EVERYWHERE and smoke is no longer the safe little bubble it once was. And it was never that safe as it was a torpedo magnet.

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5 hours ago, kultabashi said:

Belfast is strong firepower wise.. but, is paper thin with no repair.

In my opinion, Belfast is not extra ordinary in firepower wise, but overpowered in term of utilities and upgrades. Getting RADAR'd by Belfast doesn't mean you are automatically dead.

@scommy, is Belfast the only problem you are facing and getting frustrated about? If you look at my battles,  about 20% of my total battles are tier 7 DDs, and I faced countless Belfasts / Atlantas. 1 ship should not be enough to make you quit the game, there should be much more bigger issue than that. Besides, you could just avoid tier 7 if you hate facing that ship that much. Seiji and others already pointed out how you could possibly deal with average Belfast players, but lets face it, Belfast is a broken ship, WG removed her from shop forever. Nothing short of another broken ship facing her is going to work when the Belfast is driven by players who know the game well. I guess, this is where we go into compensation tactics. If you are in a game that you are not going to win, make sure to earn as much damage and kills, so that you can at least improve your other stats.

 

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5 hours ago, scommy said:

Thanks for the suggestions. Shooting the spotter ship sounds good, the thing is there is usually a CV so you get spotted by planes anyways. Getting within 5km is not easy to do whilst taking withering fire. I do shoot to where the gunfire flashes are in the smoke but its seems to result in only a few hits.

The thing is all these options expose you to significant amounts of fire. My Shchors and Myoko just get annihilated by Belfasts in smoke. 

I dunno, I can always just play tier 5 ships I guess. I like my Kirov.

It depends a lot on what ship you are playing. If you are playing cruisers like the 2 you mentioned, you are primarily supposed to engage BBs and other cruisers(except belfast) from near max range and try to wither them down as much as possible. Eventually, the enemy team will be thinned down and you can push in late game. At the same time, the belfast player will have lost most of his support and will be easier to engage as there may not be enough ships to help spot for him outside the smoke. I'd say it is better not to engage them head on as you'll be playing to their advantage. Also, I think you are playing too close and personal with those ships(I mayb wrong), they don't have the armor nor the agility to actually play close. 

For shooting in smoke, follow what others said. Additionally, you can use your Hydro to engage them in smoke, try to remain unspotted in the process.

Hope it helps:Smile_honoring:

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Myoko is just amazing. Love that ship.

Best counter to smoke is learning how to shoot ships in smoke. Practice with spotter plane first and after a while you won't need it. If you hit a smoked up ship, they'll usually stop firing because they know you're onto them.

Skill trumps ship. Early on after release, saw an umikaze pretty much carry a T10 match. While I'm not saying that should be your goal, improving your own skills can bridge the gap between ships.

I'm probably best with IJN BBs out of all the ships I play, which aren't really brawlers - but I rarely lose a 1v1 brawl in them, even against higher tier BBs, including 'brawler' BBs. Why? Because I angle well and aim well.

Goodluck against Belfasts, it takes some practice but I'm sure you'll get to a point where you even the odds.

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14 hours ago, Pocket_Fox said:

Here I am as a DD main thinking, radar is EVERYWHERE and smoke is no longer the safe little bubble it once was. And it was never that safe as it was a torpedo magnet.

This is something I've been thinking about quite a bit recently. 

I personally now believe, the meta has evolved to the point that above t4, there's little to no utility for a dd to spam guns from smoke, due radar, dds with hydro, increased knowledge of blindfiring at ships in smoke, cvs manual launching torps in smoke. Some of these factors were there before but now there's so many such problems confluenceing that its no longer a practical strategy. 

You either "run n gun" ala AFT blyskawyka and the russians,  or you WASD and gun (gadjah madah and such - very risky btw) or you rely on invis torpedo hits ala IJN, PA, high tier USN. The high tier KM dds have some leeway to sit in smoke and spam guns cause of hydro but they have the shortest smoke anyways. 
 

90% of the utility of smokes in the game atm is for team play, nor personal performance. I don't mind the change.

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Smoke is still good, methinks many people don't use it in optimal positions or times... Use in conjunction with islands for cover or to provide you cover to escape.

I like that there's radar and hydro in the game, what I truely dislike is that they see through walls...

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