Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
cyqsimon

Shooting Friendly Ships Should Not Set Fires!

13 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[PANTS]
Member
39 posts
10,200 battles

I have had a post half a year ago with identical idea. You can find it here: 

I'm posting again because apparently that didn't gain traction and I think the problem is so blatantly obvious.

Alright. I was on PTS server yesterday playing Hindenburg. I passed by a GK while shooting and caught him with 2 HE shells. Completely unintentional. That did little damage by itself. But it also caused a fire on him that kept burning for 1 whole minute. Of course since it's a GK the fire damage is massive and he lost 15K health to that single fire. During that time, I turned from full health, to pink in 10 seconds, and died due to team damage in 20 more seconds. After battle, I caused 65K team damage in total, 15K to GK with fire, and 50K to myself due to team kill penalty. And for that the game awarded me a 19-games pink status.

To summarize, my game got completely ruined, my team lost a ship for nothing, and I got a 19-games pink status penalty for 2 HE hits on a friendly, UNINTENTIONALLY. I am trying very hard to suppress my anger and I hope you can understand my frustration and see the problem here.

Now, I don't blame that GK at all since holding DC on 1 fire is completely understandable. And ultimately my team did win that game plus it was only PTS. But the same situation could happen and has happened on live server, and I don't think I need to further explain why this is an issue that needs to be fixed. So, my suggestions are as following:

  1. Make everything percentage based! 10K damage to a friendly destroyer should not be punished equally as 10K damage to a friendly battleship! It should take a fixed percentage of health done by team damage before pink status is imposed, not by an absolute value. Also when I'm already pink, if I cause 1K damage to a friendly destroyer, I should not take 10K myself, rather the percentage 1K is to that destroyer, times 10, then applied to myself health.
  2. Stop making HE set fire on friendly ships! Accidents do happen quite often, and having HE set fire to friendly ships is no different than forcing me to cause damage to my team and punishing me for that.

And as a final note please give a thumbs up if you have had the same thing happen to you before. It's important because clearly, WG doesn't pay close attention to this forum board to begin with.

 

Edited by cyqsimon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TDA]
Alpha Tester
1,706 posts
7,273 battles

It's a test server...

YOU may have been unknowingly testing fire damage... or team damage.

If it gets removed, how is it to be tested? 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HMASW]
Member
1,559 posts
3 hours ago, cyqsimon said:

<snip> 

To get a 19 match penalty being pink,  you must be "accidentally" hitting/burning team players quite often... does it carry through to the normal asia server? 

IIRC I saw a very similar post over 2 years ago....

 

Here's an idea to try; 

 

STOP SHOOTING ALLIES!!! 

 

look around you BEFORE you start shooting, if you feel that an ally might come into your sights, then hold your fire!!! 

The damage you receive from TK is specifically designed to deter hitting ones own team mates, if that was taken away then there would be more team killing... 

Why do you think soap tastes horrible? To STOP anyone from eating it... 

Suffer the consequences, LEARN from your mistakes, & STOP TEAM KILLING! 

:Smile_izmena:

Quite simple really..... 

Ordrazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
2,725 posts

Dunno how complicated/hard for a player to avoid/resolve such trivial issue when it only cost you little time to check your surroundings via free view (hold R-click + move the mouse) and/or check the mini-map. If this to be implemented then it will subsequently ask for the removal of flooding from an ally's torpedo as well, this cannot go further.

If you really feel it really ruined your game, you have to learn from the mistake you made. But since you said this is an identical post then I see you still haven't learned from your mistake yet.

Edited by Mingfang47

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PANTS]
Member
39 posts
10,200 battles
14 hours ago, Ordrazz said:

To get a 19 match penalty being pink,  you must be "accidentally" hitting/burning team players quite often... does it carry through to the normal asia server? 

No. It was 2 HE shells and 1 fire on a GK, in a single match on PTS. The 2 shells did nearly no damage, but the single fire did 15K. I said it very clearly in my post. The stupid pink mechanism based on absolute rather than relative health decided 19 matches is the 'appropriate' penalty.

14 hours ago, Ordrazz said:

look around you BEFORE you start shooting, if you feel that an ally might come into your sights, then hold your fire!!!

 

13 hours ago, Mingfang47 said:

Dunno how complicated/hard for a player to avoid/resolve such trivial issue when it only cost you little time to check your surroundings via free view (hold R-click + move the mouse) and/or check the mini-map.

 

12 hours ago, Gummilicious said:

Dont shoot when you are super near a teammates


Guys, I have 8k matches and I know how to play the game, so stop trying to teach me how to play. *After reviewing my comment next day I realized a look-down is very inappropriate so it has since been removed. Apologies for the previous rage comment. But otherwise my point still stands.*

Telling the player 'to be careful' is not a good enough response. (Not to mention checking surrounding before shooting every salvo is anything but 'trivial'.) You are essentially saying: 'be careful not to accidentally scrape anyone with your HE, not even once, otherwise we might kill you for team killing and you can blame yourself.' What difference is that to: 'be careful not to bump into anyone when walking in public, not even once, otherwise we might jail you without trial and you can blame yourself.'? It's this simple: an insignificant wrongdoing should not be assigned a significant punishment.

Going back to my case: my penalty for misfiring 2 HE shell, since they caused a fire on a large ship, was the death of my own ship for that game, and pink status for 10 or more matches. Even when I stopped immediately after the first warning pops up, it was already too late for me since RNG decided for me that I would like to continue to do fire damage to my teammate. Again: the wrongdoing does not correspond to an anywhere-near-appropriate penalty. If I shot that friendly GK 30 times, did 15K damage, got pink and died, I would have no complaint. In reality I scraped him with 2 shells, and for some god awful reason, I received the same punishment.

So my proposed solution is simple: don't let HE shells set fire to friendly, so that the wrongdoing, whether intentional or unintentional, can actually receive a fitting and non-excessive punishment.

Edited by cyqsimon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
205 posts
11,864 battles

Just ignore them when you see they're not getting it, cy 

They're going on about this just like Team damaging with torpedoes.
Which make sense when you think about it, Its your weapons that makes you their responsibilities.

There's a lot of good example of this incident around for a while and everyone choose to ignore it as I mentioned above and most people are missing a big picture here.
Team damage with Main armament and Torpedo armament is SOMETHING you have total control on.

  • The System kinda handle this flawlessly ... too good infact it leads to problem you're experiencing. 

The same cannot be said with Fire damage and Flooding these things you have no control its RNG and its up to the one receiving the end of it to press "R" to do something about it.

  • Fire damage and Flooding as you know it deal damage based on ship's max hp percentage and the system is taking RAW damage as an input leading to this issue.


Removing the ability to set friendlies on fire or flooding could fix the problem altogether and making the game "less punishing" in this department as well.
The game punishing you for doing what you're not suppose to and you have control of it, that's all fair and square.
The game punishing you for something you have no control of. No This should be go away, You can imagine how worse when your shot happens to detonate a friendly ship.

I'm speaking this out for gameplay's sake you could say I don't care about realism and historical accuracy but then again You're playing a VIDEO GAME, so Gameplay has to come first.
 

Edited by MikuChrome
Typo and things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
7,788 posts
8,043 battles

With all due respect to your super purple status show off, I think you played enough to know how much distance you need to maintain from friendly ships. So not gonna tutor you on that. Now, consider this, I am the game engine, who is telling me what your intentions were? I could assume that you willingly shot that GK with HE. It is no different from my perspective. You do understand that, right? It is like cops are chasing a robber, shooting around, suddenly an innocent guy at the streets died cause of bleeding out from a cross fire. And that cop will be responsible for this incident.

And your proposal is absurd.

6 hours ago, cyqsimon said:

So my proposed solution is simple: don't let HE shells set fire to friendly

You wan't the engine to change because what might happen once in thousands games? Even so, if WG agrees with you, then I will come up with these:

"Don't let torps cause flood to friendly" (basically almost all IJN DD/CA players will want that).

"Don't let strafe kill friendly planes" (I guess most CV players)

"Don't let AP shells cause citadel hits to friendly" (heck I want that just 'cause I can)

"Prevent secondaries from damaging friendlies", (I think they've already done that)

What argument do you hold to justify that any of these cannot be asked for? They are equally absurd as your proposal. I'm sure you realize that, right? Might as well just say, remove friendly damage. But as Miku described above, it will be less punishing, and we don't need that.

My suggestion:

A better solution could easily be reduced friendly damage from DoTs like Ramming, Flooding, Burning. It already does in ramming. the co-efficient for friendly is way too low. Problem with setting fire is, you are doing same amount of damage, as fire from enemy would do, and thus, you are being penalized equally. Unless WG changes burn / flood mechanism where they can change the duration based on source, nothing like that is happening either. I honestly believe, the fact that DoT damages (except ramming) only care about target HP, is utter BS. This should very well consider the source (it is absurd that a fire set by DD lasts same as a fire from BB caliber which probably has a 10 times blast radius), and whether it is from friendly or enemy (like it does for ramming).

No need to compare with my stats, I am shit at this game. But you are welcome for logical arguments.

Edited by icy_phoenix
Typo fix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SGC]
Member
197 posts
10,435 battles

Oooor we could just remove friendly fire entirely, like in Operations Mode :3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PANTS]
Member
39 posts
10,200 battles
3 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

With all due respect to your super purple status show off, I think you played enough to know how much distance you need to maintain from friendly ships. So not gonna tutor you on that. Now, consider this, I am the game engine, who is telling me what your intentions were? I could assume that you willingly shot that GK with HE. It is no different from my perspective. You do understand that, right? It is like cops are chasing a robber, shooting around, suddenly an innocent guy at the streets died cause of bleeding out from a cross fire. And that cop will be responsible for this incident.

And your proposal is absurd.

You wan't the engine to change because what might happen once in thousands games? Even so, if WG agrees with you, then I will come up with these:

"Don't let torps cause flood to friendly" (basically almost all IJN DD/CA players will want that).

"Don't let strafe kill friendly planes" (I guess most CV players)

"Don't let AP shells cause citadel hits to friendly" (heck I want that just 'cause I can)

"Prevent secondaries from damaging friendlies", (I think they've already done that)

What argument do you hold to justify that any of these cannot be asked for? They are equally absurd as your proposal. I'm sure you realize that, right? Might as well just say, remove friendly damage. But as Miku described above, it will be less punishing, and we don't need that.

My suggestion:

A better solution could easily be reduced friendly damage from DoTs like Ramming, Flooding, Burning. It already does in ramming. the co-efficient for friendly is way too low. Problem with setting fire is, you are doing same amount of damage, as fire from enemy would do, and thus, you are being penalized equally. Unless WG changes burn / flood mechanism where they can change the duration based on source, nothing like that is happening either. I honestly believe, the fact that DoT damages (except ramming) only care about target HP, is utter BS. This should very well consider the source (it is absurd that a fire set by DD lasts same as a fire from BB caliber which probably has a 10 times blast radius), and whether it is from friendly or enemy (like it does for ramming).

No need to compare with my stats, I am shit at this game. But you are welcome for logical arguments.

10

I will apologize first about my degrading comment yesterday. Look-downs based on stats are never appropriate and I have made an edit to it since.

Now back to the issue itself: as you mentioned about secondaries, there was a 'perfectly good' argument to be made for not preventing them from doing team damage: 'You could just be careful and turn secondaries off when near friendly otherwise it's your own fault.'

Pfffft. It's simply not a good enough response and I think WG made the right call when they decided to change it. Similarly, now I would like to see them disable fire damage on team as well.

Contrary to what you implied about there needing to be a big change to the engine to disable fire damage to allies, such a change would be trivial - in essence one extra control flow structure in shell hit handler, something like:

if(target.isFriendly())

{ // do damage.}

else

{ // do damage.

// set fires.}

Well, something like that. My point is it's not a huge change and certainly not 'absurd'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
2,259 posts
14,003 battles

It could encourage players not to care, or to look at another players health and decide for themselves that that player can "afford" to lose some health in return for you getting a salvo off.

I like the fact that you could set them on fire equally as much as I hate having to hold my fire when an ally is in front of me, but that is what I do so as to avoid hitting them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
7,788 posts
8,043 battles
7 hours ago, cyqsimon said:

Contrary to what you implied about there needing to be a big change to the engine to disable fire damage to allies, such a change would be trivial -

Fair enough. Although I still believe reducing the damage over time penalty from fire/flood for friendly is still better than completely removing it, because I believe that allows players to be less careful because the alpha doesn't do enough damage to receive any penalty, it is the fear of initiating a DoT that forces us to be more careful around friendlies.

Good thing you have raised the issue here and I hope devs do take this into consideration.

And yes, they made the right choices for secondaries as you have no control over them. Same as your AA does not affect friendly planes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
2,725 posts
10 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

Fair enough. Although I still believe reducing the damage over time penalty from fire/flood for friendly is still better than completely removing it, because I believe that allows players to be less careful because the alpha doesn't do enough damage to receive any penalty, it is the fear of initiating a DoT that forces us to be more careful around friendlies.

 

I can still accept this. Just reduce the fire damage as I did remember WG did implement reduced damage from ally torpedoes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×