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SkyWarrior_109

Battleships - Massive powercreeps?

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I've been playing World of Warships for awhile now, and each match I keep seeing teams of 5+ battleships a game with very few cruisers or destroyers to balance things out.

I feel like battleships are a massive powercreep - they require a ridiculous amount of effort and team cooperation to take down, while in return said battleship can simply delete cruisers and even other battleships, a few battleships even having radar to counter their counter, I.E. destroyers. (another counter is not sailing in a straight line, which is relatively easy to NOT do) 

Playing another class is just not fun, once you realise you can one shot almost any cruiser from 15+ km away (higher tiers) with a substantially higher health pool than everyone else besides enemy battleships. Battleships don't appear to have a solid counter, given how powerful they are - again, in higher tier CV's can't deal with them due to the murderous amount of AA they get. Radar exists, rendering DD's useless, and CLs and CA's will get deleted as usual. The only counter to BB's in my eyes, are other BB's - only they have the penetration and calibre to deal significant damage to each other, while cruisers have to pray to set fires to do anything meaningful, DD's simply praying the enemy BB is a complete idiot and blunders straight into his torps (which only happens in tiers 3 - 5) and no one uses radar (higher tiers again).

"but BB's have lower accuracy, just dodge his shots!" Their accuracy penalty becomes effectively nil the higher you go, dispersion becoming almost non-existent and even glancing blows dealing ridiculous numbers - I got shot on the rear deck but it counted as 8000 damage. 

 

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I love games full of BB's.    Fires make credits and XP.  Flooding makes credits and XP.  Continued hits take out multiple secondaries and AA every shot. The can be nothing more than XP donors to a reasonably average CA/DD player and CV players who have a good grasp of their airgroups roles and capabilities.

 

Looking at your ship line-up you need to play them more to understand how they can be countered.    You have ships that are BB killers.   The MK tears battleships to pieces. I'm not sure where you get the belief that BB accuracy increases so much the higher you go because in general it is just not true and essentially by the time you get to those levels you should have the skills to deal with them.

You haven't got a lot of games under your belt so you will see an increase in your knowledge of the game as well as your skills as you progress

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[PANTS]
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In good players' hands, high tier cruisers and destroyers can get much higher win rates than battleships ever can (assuming playing solo). In my book that is the major downside of high tier battleships, that in terms of direct influence on the outcome, they are significantly worse than other classes.

Although I do have to admit battleships are quite brain-dead, and in certain scenarios they are too strong. Good examples are: all RN battleships; battleship AP against destroyers; 460mm; etc. Compared to cruisers and destroyers, they require so much less effort to play and often turn out to be more rewarding it's not even funny.

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Yeah I’ve started playing again this January and the first thing I’ve noticed was all the radar’s and second is that most games are battleship heavy and of those games are generally one-sided.

 

Just one single mistake by a capital ship and the team goes down by one ship, then thereafter the team will be pick off one by one.

 

If any capital ship stays for just a minute too long at range and the other team moves into medium range, caps, its gameover.

 

I’m finding these days that most tier X games are won in the first 5-10 minutes. In the past cruisers could turn a game around but these days if you haven’t got radar or smoke it seems hard to make a difference.

 

It’s more like a RNG shoot fest than the old game of manoeuvring. Balance used to be equal for every ship playing there role. It’s clear that battleships have the advantage (balance) in today game (excluding smashing CV captains).

 

“Thus forth thou shall join them”, that’s if you want to compete, make a difference.

 

 

 

Edited by BuckleUpBones

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Yeah nah...

Just because there are lots of them doesn't mean anything apart from people like playing them.

That's mainly due to their low skill access, ie not hard to do big damage with and survive longer.

Any decent DD or CL/CA player can easily wipe the floor with them.

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8 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

Any decent DD or CL/CA player can easily wipe the floor with them.

Sure, BB vs CA does depend on the either captain cunning but one mistake by a capital ship and the team as a whole loses (top tier).   

 

 

Edited by BuckleUpBones

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Just now, BuckleUpBones said:

Sure, BB vs CA does depend on the either captain cunning but one mistake by a capital ship and the team as a whole loses.   

That applies to any ship

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Battleships are gradually being hard countered by lots of new introductions to the game. 

Strongest of which are deep water torpedoes and AP bombs. 

Not to mention Royal Navy battleship HE. 

I have been on the firing and receiving ends of all of these types of ordnance, and I have to say that BBs are definitely not power creeping everything else. Probably the opposite. 

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Also I've been thinking lately that with so many battleships, RNG is now playing a role with the winning outcome.

With cruisers or destroyers the dispersion is so close that missed shells doesn’t have a impact, skill based.

However battleships, with a few good RNG dispersions and the damage that’s done will determine if the ship goes down along with the team. Any ship that’s has low health after good RNG from opponents will be pick on.

 

Having a game with 5 to 6 battleships aside, or more, RNG might be determining who’s team wins, just through good or bad RNG dispersion. The more battleships there are the more chances there are that RNG could be one-sided and this could be why most games that are battleship heavy are so one-sided.

 

 

 

Edited by BuckleUpBones

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5 hours ago, RalphTheTheatreCat said:

I love games full of BB's.    Fires make credits and XP.  Flooding makes credits and XP.  Continued hits take out multiple secondaries and AA every shot. The can be nothing more than XP donors to a reasonably average CA/DD player and CV players who have a good grasp of their airgroups roles and capabilities.

Yes, that’s what I thought.

 

Set a BB on fire, switch targets, set another one on fire. Check the first one again – fire’s out? Set it alight again! Actually, the Pan-Asian DD’s with deep water torpedoes and good guns are quite good for that. Or US DD's or the cruiser of your choice.

 

You can manoeuvre and position your ship to avoid being hit. Priority Target and Incoming Fire Alert may be helpful captain skills here.

 

Yes, you can get one-shotted, and probably you will be, from time to time. So what? When you get tired of looking at your damage-counter ticking form continuing fires, go back to port and jump into another ship.

Edited by PeterMoe1963

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9 hours ago, SkyWarrior_109 said:

I feel like battleships are a massive powercreep - they require a ridiculous amount of effort and team cooperation to take down, while in return said battleship can simply delete cruisers and even other battleships, a few battleships even having radar to counter their counter, I.E. destroyers. (another counter is not sailing in a straight line, which is relatively easy to NOT do) 

Your team got the same number of them.

9 hours ago, SkyWarrior_109 said:

Playing another class is just not fun, once you realise you can one shot almost any cruiser from 15+ km away (higher tiers) with a substantially higher health pool than everyone else besides enemy battleships. Battleships don't appear to have a solid counter, given how powerful they are - again, in higher tier CV's can't deal with them due to the murderous amount of AA they get. Radar exists, rendering DD's useless, and CLs and CA's will get deleted as usual. The only counter to BB's in my eyes, are other BB's - only they have the penetration and calibre to deal significant damage to each other, while cruisers have to pray to set fires to do anything meaningful, DD's simply praying the enemy BB is a complete idiot and blunders straight into his torps (which only happens in tiers 3 - 5) and no one uses radar (higher tiers again).

I play all three classes, and I find Cruisers to be the easiest class and most fun. Battleships are just kinda boring. And this part of your comment really tells me that it is actually a rant post without much base to it. While high tiers, Midways are now murdering everything and their mothers, and you come here say this. I must have been playing a different game (or you have been).

BB numbers increase often because of missions or new ship line releases (I blame WG for designing stupid campaigns). But on a plus side, they add variety to matchmaking and you have to learn to play differently. Everyone who plays at high tiers knows that high tier cruisers are as much capable as battleships. If you can't make them work, that's your problem and try to fix that.

 

[PS] I'm sorry OP, I looked into your profile. You only played 500 games, and I think that alone is not enough experience to talk about balance issues. Good luck in the future. You will perform a lot better as you gain more experience. :)

Edited by icy_phoenix

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Just now, icy_phoenix said:

While high tiers, Midways are now murdering everything and their mothers, and you come here say this. I must have been playing a different game (or you have been).

I didn't know what all the fuss with Skillway was until I actually got in a game with one of them the other night - he wiped out 4 ships in less than 10 minutes including their only DD in the first 2 minutes. We won without losing a single ship.

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1 minute ago, Webba84 said:

I didn't know what all the fuss with Skillway was until I actually got in a game with one of them the other night - he wiped out 4 ships in less than 10 minutes including their only DD in the first 2 minutes. We won without losing a single ship.

No disrespect to OP, but he only played 500 battles. No wonder he has no clue.

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While it's true that BB is an easy ship to sail-massive hitpoints, a lot of armor, and generally long range-it's the mastery of BB's that determines the skill level of a certain player. Not to mention that each BB line has a unique flavor to them in which switching from one BB to another needs adjustment. 

US Battleships from Tier III-Tier VII are slow, but speed has been traded for good armor protection, strong AA, and good guns(though their range is..lacking). This means that you have to choose wisely in which direction you go and follow the pace of the battle so that you can still do meaningful damage. Once you transition to the fast Battleships in Tier VIII-X, you have to change tactics. You still have the strong AA and great guns(now with range!) but now you have speed at the cost of armor protection(though it's still strong when angled). Mindfulness is key in driving the high tier US battleships since a wrong turn means a paddling from the enemy. (All US Battleships have great maneuverability, making them good at torpbeats especially when the Steering Gears Modification is equipped).

Japanese Battleships(with the exception of the Kawachi at Tier III) are fast snipers. They generally have the longest range guns of any of their peers which means that the players who commandeer them can get the first shot off. However, the trade-off is that their armor protection is...alright but not great, and with the addition of their not-so-great AA defenses(though the Yamato have something to say about that), mindfulness is crucial in their survival or else, like I said in the US BB segment, the player will get a massive paddling.

German Battleships are like US Battleships. Tier III-Tier VI are slow, but heavily armored ships that have great guns. Coming to Tier VII-Tier X you still have the benefit of strong armor protection, insane firepower but now you have speed. However, the guns of every German Battleship is bad in terms of accuracy which means that careful aiming is required(though you still need RNGesus for that). Their armor protection is also something to be considered. The turtleback armor is great, but only at close to medium range. At long ranges, these ships can be susceptible to citadels because most of the shots will plunge through their deck. Even at their effective range, the armor is still susceptible to huge damage because there is an exploitable gap in the armor scheme. Careful management is required.(Their AA is adequate, even reaching US standards, though Secondary Build is still favored for vaporizing anyone who dares to come close).

UK Battleships still have that level of skill, though its toss aside for HE loldamage. Switching between AP or HE is more of a matter of how the enemy is presenting to you. If angled, shoot HE. If broadside, shoot AP. Try to keep up with the flow of the battle so that you can do the maximum potential of both shells.

While I do have an Italian Battleship, the Giulio Cesare, without the full tech tree I can't make an opinion whether or not they play like one of the previously mentioned lines or they add something unique to the table.

I don't have a French BB so....:P

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7 hours ago, BuckleUpBones said:

Also I've been thinking lately that with so many battleships, RNG is now playing a role with the winning outcome.

With cruisers or destroyers the dispersion is so close that missed shells doesn’t have a impact, skill based.

However battleships, with a few good RNG dispersions and the damage that’s done will determine if the ship goes down along with the team. Any ship that’s has low health after good RNG from opponents will be pick on.

 

Having a game with 5 to 6 battleships aside, or more, RNG might be determining who’s team wins, just through good or bad RNG dispersion. The more battleships there are the more chances there are that RNG could be one-sided and this could be why most games that are battleship heavy are so one-sided.

 

 

 

IMO aim has more to do with it than anything. The amount of BB players I see slinging HE at angled BBs is frustrating.

Use AP, learn to hit superstructure. It's easy getting dreadnaughts though.

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18 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

IMO aim has more to do with it than anything. The amount of BB players I see slinging HE at angled BBs is frustrating.

Use AP, learn to hit superstructure. It's easy getting dreadnaughts though.

This is not true, it depend a lot on the angle. The superstructure face on most BB is bulletproof and as is turret face at normal combat distance. Shooting well angled front on BB with AP is not worth the trouble unless you know you can overmatch specific parts.

Shooting angled BB running away with AP is more reliable and even then, RNG play a large role. I would switch to HE for consistency from 2nd volley onward if he stay that way.

The long reload make both placing shots and reducing randomness in results important.

You are confusing it with players who spam HE all day.

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13 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

This is not true, it depend a lot on the angle. The superstructure face on most BB is bulletproof and as is turret face at normal combat distance. Shooting well angled front on BB with AP is not worth the trouble unless you know you can overmatch specific parts.

Shooting angled BB running away with AP is more reliable and even then, RNG play a large role. I would switch to HE for consistency from 2nd volley onward if he stay that way.

The long reload make both placing shots and reducing randomness in results important.

You are confusing it with players who spam HE all day.

Against certain ships, sure but I rarely have an issue, maybe I'm getting shots through the deck?

Not to mention I prefer having AP ready for when the next potato shows a citadel...

I think I sling HE in my IJN BBs maybe once every two to three matches. *Shrugs*

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I don't know about how CAs and DDs tactics to deal with BBs.

From my point of view as a CV Player, BB is one of my favorite target (second to opponent's CV).

Start from T VI, some of the BBs have really good AA defenses. Let say "HMS Queen Elizabeth of UK BB Line" for example, and then as higher the tier goes, every nation seems all have good AA defenses. But it doesn't mean BB is impenetrable by strike aircrafts. They still can be hit well with a good tactic and correct timings.

WOW is all about right tactics and correct timings. Whatever strength domain a vessel has, there still a chance to get a devastating blow.

 

So in my opinion, there are also some ways for CA and DD to handle BBs as long as the player knows the right way and the right time.

Edited by Robby_Hermanto

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