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leerm002

Heavy Cruisers?

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Pretty short post here,

I've recently been upping my IJN cruiser line and have just gotten to tier 5: the start of the heavy cruisers. I loving my Furutaka right now, but I'm wondering: where are all the other heavy cruiser lines? Am I just missing something? 

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5 minutes ago, leerm002 said:


Pretty short post here,

I've recently been upping my IJN cruiser line and have just gotten to tier 5: the start of the heavy cruisers. I loving my Furutaka right now, but I'm wondering: where are all the other heavy cruiser lines? Am I just missing something? 

German Heavy cruisers(CA)  from T7

US CA from T7

French CA from T7

RU CA from T9:cap_yes:

UK got no CA :fish_nerv:

for IJN CA T5 >> a lesson for you

 

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18 minutes ago, MatterCore said:

German Heavy cruisers(CA)  from T7

US CA from T7

French CA from T7

RU CA from T9:cap_yes:

UK got no CA :fish_nerv:

for IJN CA T5 >> a lesson for you

 

Strictly speaking, the Kirov class is classified as light cruisers by the Soviets, but as the Soviets signed a pact with the Brits making them part of the London treaty ship classification system, they used Soviets' heavy cruiser tonnage. (That's why the follow up development of Soviet cruisers went from the 180mm to 152mm.)

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1 hour ago, MatterCore said:

UK got no CA :fish_nerv:

UK only has big fat DD which can be citadel with 1 shot and you can earn detonation flags too

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11 hours ago, leerm002 said:


Pretty short post here,

I've recently been upping my IJN cruiser line and have just gotten to tier 5: the start of the heavy cruisers. I loving my Furutaka right now, but I'm wondering: where are all the other heavy cruiser lines? Am I just missing something? 

There are several cruisers lines still not included in the game. RN heavy cruisers (not many but they are there), USN light cruisers and Italian heavy cruisers being the most obvious. The not too far away USN cruiser split will rectify most of that for the USN. Also Trento and Zara class Italian CA are inbound hopefully before too long. The RN heavy cruisers are a bit harder though. The RN really only built 3 classes of CA. Hawkins, County and Kent. Not enough for a full line without delving into paper ships or possibly even worse WG made up ships.

To fully understand the answer to your question though requires a small history lesson. The TLDR version is that the Washington treaty made it very hard to built a successful CA that still complied with the treaty. Many nations built CA with very little armour in order to stay under the 10,000 ton limit, and got terrible ships. Such as USN Pensacola and RN County class. Funnily enough the 2 ships of the Pensacola class were called light cruisers, due to the light armour, by the USN up until july 1931 when the designation was changed to heavy cruiser. This was done to avoid confusion as the international standard was to call any cruiser with over 6" guns a heavy cruiser.

Only decent CA from this period are from the nations that decided to thumb their noses at the treaty and build more well rounded ships in terms of armour and firepower. For example Zara, Deutschland, Hipper, Myoko and Mogami classes.

Obviously as war was breaking out it was pointless sticking to treaty tonnage restrictions that your enemies are not adhering to anyway. The US with their massive industrial might built many highly successful post treaty CA classes in very short time. For Britain basically it was deemed too expensive and too time consuming to build extra ships they didn't really need with the way the war was going by then. Also the 1936 London naval treaty, which was pretty much an agreement between the US and Britain, abolished the heavy cruiser idea all together. All cruisers were restricted to 6.1" guns and 8000 tons. Largely a moot point as the US continued to build heavy cruisers well over 6" guns and 8K - 10K tons anyway, while Britain decided to not build anymore CA.

 

The tech trees of WOWS would be an amazing place if not for the Washington naval treaty. The 1915 design of a USN 28,000 ton, long range scout cruiser with 4x2 10" guns, 5" belt and capable of 35 knots? :cap_wander_2:

Just to name one of many that never got off the drawing board due to treaty restrictions.

11 hours ago, MatterCore said:

UK got no CA :fish_nerv:

Don't forget the Italian navy also has no CA in WOWS yet. Trento and Zara classes. Zara being the best all round CA that sort of is close to complying with the Washington treaty.

Looking forward to maybe one day SOON™ the RN Hawkins, County and Kent class heavy cruisers being in game.

I think that HMAS Australia II county class heavy cruiser would be a good addition to the commonwealth tech tree. :cap_like: 

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10 minutes ago, HobartAWD said:

Don't forget the Italian navy also has no CA in WOWS yet. Trento and Zara classes. Zara being the best all round CA that sort of is close to complying with the Washington treaty.

Looking forward to maybe one day SOON™ the RN Hawkins, County and Kent class heavy cruisers being in game.

I think that HMAS Australia II county class heavy cruiser would be a good addition to the commonwealth tech tree. :cap_like: 

no tech tree yet , so I dont count it:fish_cute_2:, just wait and wait and wait..............:fish_aqua:

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On 1/21/2018 at 7:25 AM, Hey_Potato said:

UK only has big fat DD which can be citadel with 1 shot and you can earn detonation flags too

You mean in the game?

Because the RN certainly has/had a few:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cruiser_classes_of_the_Royal_Navy#Heavy_cruisers

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They could include HMAS Canberra instead of her sistership, it would honor those brave soldiers & leave the HMAS Australia name free for our wwi battlecruiser should they put it in game

Ordrazz

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Remember Furutaka when the game first came out?
Fun times.

[10/10 someone's gonna point out how little games I've had but I got enlisted by the army for a couple of years and got depressed from being shaved and only became happy after being discharged<ORDLOH>]

Edited by mitts

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On 1/21/2018 at 12:31 PM, HobartAWD said:

Only decent CA from this period are from the nations that decided to thumb their noses at the treaty and build more well rounded ships in terms of armour and firepower. For example Zara, Deutschland, Hipper, Myoko and Mogami classes.

The French heavy cruiser Algerie is a great example of a heavy cruiser, commissioned in 1934.

The Algerie and Zara class are considered some of the best examples of heavy cruisers that were in operation at the start of WW2.

As much as I love the Deutschland panzerschiffes  (they were the first warship I remember seeing in a book as a kid), they're not regarded as a "well rounded design" by most naval historians and I agree with this. They had thinner belt armour at the waterline than most "heavy cruisers", same with their deck armour. There were sacrifices made to install those large guns onto a nominal 10k ton hull, plus the capacity to cruise for 10k-17k nm - all took it's toll on how much armour could be added, as well as  her slower than average speed.

 

Tee

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Thanks for all the replies! 

This one in particular is actually a really great summary of naval warfare for the era: 

On 1/21/2018 at 12:31 PM, HobartAWD said:

There are several cruisers lines still not included in the game. RN heavy cruisers (not many but they are there), USN light cruisers and Italian heavy cruisers being the most obvious. The not too far away USN cruiser split will rectify most of that for the USN. Also Trento and Zara class Italian CA are inbound hopefully before too long. The RN heavy cruisers are a bit harder though. The RN really only built 3 classes of CA. Hawkins, County and Kent. Not enough for a full line without delving into paper ships or possibly even worse WG made up ships.

To fully understand the answer to your question though requires a small history lesson. The TLDR version is that the Washington treaty made it very hard to built a successful CA that still complied with the treaty. Many nations built CA with very little armour in order to stay under the 10,000 ton limit, and got terrible ships. Such as USN Pensacola and RN County class. Funnily enough the 2 ships of the Pensacola class were called light cruisers, due to the light armour, by the USN up until july 1931 when the designation was changed to heavy cruiser. This was done to avoid confusion as the international standard was to call any cruiser with over 6" guns a heavy cruiser.

Only decent CA from this period are from the nations that decided to thumb their noses at the treaty and build more well rounded ships in terms of armour and firepower. For example Zara, Deutschland, Hipper, Myoko and Mogami classes.

Obviously as war was breaking out it was pointless sticking to treaty tonnage restrictions that your enemies are not adhering to anyway. The US with their massive industrial might built many highly successful post treaty CA classes in very short time. For Britain basically it was deemed too expensive and too time consuming to build extra ships they didn't really need with the way the war was going by then. Also the 1936 London naval treaty, which was pretty much an agreement between the US and Britain, abolished the heavy cruiser idea all together. All cruisers were restricted to 6.1" guns and 8000 tons. Largely a moot point as the US continued to build heavy cruisers well over 6" guns and 8K - 10K tons anyway, while Britain decided to not build anymore CA.

 

The tech trees of WOWS would be an amazing place if not for the Washington naval treaty. The 1915 design of a USN 28,000 ton, long range scout cruiser with 4x2 10" guns, 5" belt and capable of 35 knots? :cap_wander_2:

Just to name one of many that never got off the drawing board due to treaty restrictions.

Don't forget the Italian navy also has no CA in WOWS yet. Trento and Zara classes. Zara being the best all round CA that sort of is close to complying with the Washington treaty.

Looking forward to maybe one day SOON™ the RN Hawkins, County and Kent class heavy cruisers being in game.

I think that HMAS Australia II county class heavy cruiser would be a good addition to the commonwealth tech tree. :cap_like: 


I had read about exactly what the author was talking about before, but largely do to the...shall we say "dense nature" of a lot of historical texts, well, I don't think I've ever had it explained quite so simply and well (and for some reason I never actually thought about how that affects the GAME either.) 

With all that being said, do you folks think that there should be any "paper ship" heavy cruiser lines introduced in the name of gameplay over historical accuracy? 

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3 hours ago, leerm002 said:

With all that being said, do you folks think that there should be any "paper ship" heavy cruiser lines introduced in the name of gameplay over historical accuracy? 

Paper ships are fine, it's a necessity of game balance, especially as WG wants to take every ship line all the way to T10.

 

If you mean a line of entirely not real ships, then absolutely not.

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On 1/21/2018 at 12:31 PM, HobartAWD said:

Only decent CA from this period are from the nations that decided to thumb their noses at the treaty and build more well rounded ships in terms of armour and firepower. For example Zara, Deutschland, Hipper, Myoko and Mogami classes.

...


Don't forget the Italian navy also has no CA in WOWS yet. Trento and Zara classes. Zara being the best all round CA that sort of is close to complying with the Washington treaty.

Unrelated to the OP, but you clearly haven't heard of USS Wichita. 

You'll stop liking the others as much now :Smile-_tongue:

(Also look at Hipper's tonnages and reliability issues, that thing is pretty terrible.)

Edited by InterconKW

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1 hour ago, InterconKW said:

Unrelated to the OP, but you clearly haven't heard of USS Wichita. 

You'll stop liking the others as much now :Smile-_tongue:

(Also look at Hipper's tonnages and reliability issues, that thing is pretty terrible.)

I have actually. Wichita was a very smart design by the USN. Use an existing CL hull and modify it and add fantastic armour of > 150mm belt and 3x3 8" guns. For the good amount of turret and belt armour, plus fuel for a range of some 18k kms the ship had, it was a very impressive feat to get her to around 13000 ton full load displacement. Really hope it makes it into the game one day.

I was trying to stick to mentioning ships in the game to make it easier for the OP. Only mentioned Zara due to it being fresh in my memory from a book I read and also hoping the Italian line gets more ships. I also forgot to mention Algerie as one of the better ones, which definitely is in the game.

Not sure what you mean by "look at Hipper's tonnages"? Do you mean tonnage sunk? I know that they had a pretty terrible war record.

I have read many books on heavy cruisers in WW2 and about the Hipper class in particular and don't recall major reliability issues, so again not sure what you mean. I'm not a diehard kriegsmarine fanboy, just interested to know where you got that from.

Edited by HobartAWD

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