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LordTyphoon

'Stat-bashing' - where do you draw the line?

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If you haven't met me before, I am LordTyphoon. My specialty on this forum can be described in a number of ways:

- Opener of cans of worms;

- Opener of Pandora's boxes;

- Shit-stirrer; and

- Troll.

 

On this occasion, however, I would (honestly) like to open up a discussion about what is commonly known as 'stat-bashing'. 

 

What is stat-bashing? 

 

From my personal observations on this forum, without any specifics, I seem to observe (emphasis on the word 'seem', since I can't remember any specific examples) that when a player's in-game statistics are brought up, it is automatically presumed to be a personal attack, a.k.a. some form of stat-bashing.

 

My personal interpretation of the term 'stat-bashing' would be the 'non-constructive criticism of another player's abilities in the game based on statistics and records of in-game performance and results, which may or may not be intermingled with insults and ridiculing'. I don't think it's nice, and I don't think it's right. 

 

I would like to note, however, that I do not consider constructive advice or tips that one individual gives to another, based on in-game results and numbers, as stat-bashing. There is a difference between saying 'LordTyphoon's survival rate in cruisers is 65%, therefore he is a hopeless potato at this ship class and really should consider quitting this game and throwing himself off the top of the nearest building' and 'LordTyphoon's survival rate in cruisers is only 65% - has he considered taking useful survival captain skills, such as Priority Target, Concealment Expert, and not open fire at enemies if concealed while risking exposure to a crossfire situation?'.

 

Is it simply wrong to bring up another player's stats and use them as a basis to make assumptions regarding this player's playstyle? Is there simply no un-toxic way that this can be done? Is there any way to bring up another player's stats without making it seem hostile? Most importantly, are statistics even a useful way to judge how good a player is? 

 

I think it would be useful to take a closer look at what World of Warships in-game statistics actually can tell you about the abilities of a particular player. I will source statistics from https://asia.wows-numbers.com/ - I find that their use of colour really helps with the interpretation with the numbers (sorry if any friends here are colour blind =[). 

 

What can statistics tell us about any player? 

 

I'll use my own statistics as examples. After all, I can't really stat-bash myself, right? 

 

IZYASLAV

izyaslav.thumb.jpg.f593aca083be2b216c30c824df395b5d.jpg

Take this example. These are my Izyaslav statistics to date. All of the forty-four games I have played in this boat were from when I was a little noobie, less than 500 games into my world of warships career, without a clan, without a division mate, without ever having watched any videos made by iChase, or Flamu. In fact, I used to watch PhlyDaily, when he still played Warships. He's a great YouTube personality and I love his commentaries - but do NOT watch his videos for tactical advice. 

 The Russian destroyer line (there was only one back in the day) was one of the few I chose to go down first. They were easy (or so I thought) to play - you sail around dodging shots, and you shoot stuff to rack up the damage numbers. 

 The numbers tell all. Lets break it down:

- Win rate: Horrific, since I had no idea what my role was as a DD - to hunt down enemy DDs. I never used my (then very powerful) smoke to cover my allies, or for myself to fire from stealth. I would sail around in a straight line and fire at the nearest battleship. I had no idea when torpedoes would be coming at me. I didn't care about capping, and when I did, I knew little about the mechanics of concealment and I'd get wrecked the moment I tried to cap the base. 

- Damage: The damage numbers are horrid - I was dying most of the time before I could contribute to the battle. I also distinctly remember shooting battleships in the lower armour belt as I would have if I were in a battleship, thinking the destroyer HE would pen the belt (haha) - in hindsight that would have started fires, but probably did little damage overall. I tried to damage farm, but couldn't even do that properly. 

- Kills per game: Naturally, my frags per game and kill ratio suffered as well.

 Logical conclusion: Makes perfect sense that everything is in the red. 

 

 

NAGATO

 nagato.thumb.jpg.7125ff688dfd73398a0348bd43ef7c9f.jpg

An absolutely beautiful ship with decent speed, amazing guns, and reasonably reliable armour (when angled).

 After starting to watch Flamu videos on a regular basis, especially the battleship ones, I started to understand armour angling much better. At this point, I also began to master shooting, and began to understand which part of ships to aim depending on ammo loaded, target type, and how to go or the citadel hits. 

 When I played this ship (probably between 1000-2000 games), I still had a very 'damage farming' mentality. I would shoot the biggest ship in front of me, regardless of what was more dangerous or what was closer. I wouldn't have shot destroyers back then - why do 1k damage per salvo instead of 9k against an enemy battleship?!

 And once again, the statistics reflect this. 

 - Win rate: After over 70 games, the win rate was an abysmal 40%. Clearly by not helping the team with killing or hurting enemy destroyers and cruisers, and instead mainly going after the damage-tanking ships, I was not influencing the game enough and was allowing the enemy DDs to hurt my teammates. I did not understand the importance of keeping friendly destroyers alive. 

- Damage: Pretty good - frommemory, it was pretty consistent. I was shooting targets that had large health pools and had heals, and so it was not difficult to wrack up damage. I found the citadels of cruisers consistently. 

- Kills per game: Not too bad either, I am actually surprised it was this high. 

 Did I play well? Arguably. I demonstrated my shooting and aiming abilities, and to some extent my survivability skills to hang around in the game long enough to do this kind of damage. However, I was not good for my team - the objective of the game is to win, to do that I needed to influence the game. I did not influence the game by focusing on the bigger ships, whose role mostly to tank damage for their team. 

 Logical conclusion: The statistics reflect my style of play, where it was effective, and where it was ineffective. Damage was high, but was it meaningful damage? Mostly not, probably. Did I influence the result of the game, which is the objective of the game? Not really. 

 

IOWA

iowa.thumb.jpg.0a4c381236e8523ec20d3ea6bda5e950.jpg

Once familiar with when to push and when to hold, I found the Iowa to be a pleasure to play, and very intimidating to the enemy when pushing forward at the right time. 

I earned (not converted =]) enough free XP to buy the Missouri before I even finished my North Carolina grind. By the time I unlocked the Iowa, I already had over a hundred games in the Missouri under my belt. By then, I was familiar with the playstyle of the Iowa-class, but I guessed that without the radar, I needed to be a little less aggressive in the Iowa. 

 - Win rate: Above average - by using the good ~12km concealment of the Iowa, I could stay as close as I could with friendly destroyers and cruisers at the opening stages of a battle and assist with the capping or the destruction of any nearby destroyers and cruisers first. By focusing on this at the early stages of the game, I felt I was able to influence the result of the game. 

- Damage: Above average - familiarity with the Missouri's guns, especially shell flight time, which was highly useful in leading fast and maneuverable destroyers (e.g. Fletcher, Khabarovsk) with the main battery, helped me land important hits, and also hit enemy ships at range. Overall, I had plenty of experience playing battleships by the time I unlocked the Iowa, and could consistently target cruisers' citadels, which contributed to this damage count. 

- Kills per game: By the time I played the Iowa, I understood that I need to take out ships of influence first (i.e. DDs and radar cruisers) and also finish off damaged enemies to reduce the overall quantity of incoming fire my team is facing. My reasonably good kills per game figure reflects this understanding. 

 Logical conclusion: The statistics reflected my familiarity with the Iowa and the Missouri. I have above-average figures for WR, damage, the KPG. I can confidently say these statistics reflect the fact that I am a strong Iowa player, and since I can consistently play the ship well and use its abilities to my team's advantage, overall I play well in this ship. 

 

My Thoughts on Statistics:

 

There are some reliable conclusions that can be drawn from statistics regarding a player, which are not limited to:

- Playstyles: For example, if a player has overall average WR/high damage/low kills, that player is probably a damage farmer. Individual ship or overall player statistics can paint an accurate picture of the particular play styles, whether they are effective or not

- Playing to the Objective: A player that consistently plays to the objective (and does so properly) will almost certainly have an above-average win rate. A player that ignores the objectives, or does not deal meaningful damage, will consistently achieve a lower win rate over the long term. 

- Understanding of general game concepts: In general, a player with above-average statistics is likely to exhibit a better understanding of the mechanics of the game and how to utilise the strengths of their warships to the fullest extent while mitigating the exposure of their ship's weaknesses to achieve the best possible result for their team. 

 

 However, there are significant limitations to the use of these statistics, some of which are:

- Stock ships: Remember the old stock Amagi hull? Assuming no free XP was used, chances are that any player starting out in the Amagi back in the day would have numbers for the ship that are red across the board. This is a bit of an outdated extreme case, but in general, stock ships are slightly inferior than their fully-upgraded variants, which can skew the short term statistics significantly one way. Also, if there is a significant change in play style between neighbouring ships in a particular line (e.g. QE2 to KGV, Shiratsuyu to Akizuki, Mahan to Benson) then relatively inexperienced players who fail to quickly adapt to the chance in playstyle my find their statistics in the red or orange for the short term. 

- Short term: At one point in time, my Fletcher win rate was a single digit percentage. I won only 1 game out of 17 played. I don't think that a single-digit win rate was a reflection of my overall abilities in the Fletcher. Over the short term, rare and horrific winning/losing streaks like these can skew the statistics - it is the long term figures that are important. 

- Meaningful damage: I can take out my Lion and get a Witherer every game by locating the enemy Lion/Conqueror, and then roast 100k fire damage to each of them in a 20-minute game. But this isn't meaningful damage - I can torpedo a Z-52 on the enemy team for ~20k damage, and knock out the ship early in the game, making life for my friendly destroyers much easier. High damage numbers are not necessarily a reflection of a player's contribution to the game, more so for certain ship types. 

- Divisions: Statistics are meant to be an indication of an individual player's abilities, but often when player statistics are discussed, it is not the 'solo' stats that are brought up, it is the 'overall' numbers. Where players spend most of their recorded games playing in divisions can have their statistics skewed, either positively or negatively, depending on the performance of their teammates. If this is the case, it can often manifest itself in a rather large disparity between the 'win rate' figure and the 'WTR' figures, although this may not always be the case. The counterargument for this is that the individual may be a much better 'team player' than an individual player, but this does not exclude the fact that their are external influences to the individual's statistics. 

- Ship class: WTR is calculated based on a formula that only considers win rate, damage dealt, and ship kills per game, and factors the server averages for all three in its calculation as well. Ship classes such as destroyers, which contribute significantly to metrics unrelated to these factors (mostly spotting, capture points, and defence points) may not necessary achieve a WTR that they 'deserve'. As such, if it is possible to compare the WTRs of a battleship player and a destroyer player of equal skill in their respective classes, it is likely that the battleship player will have a higher WTR due to the strength and consistency of the main armament of battleships.  

 

I'm sure there are some others - none come to mind at the moment though. 

 

Conclusion

In consideration of what I have written above, my conclusion is that statistics are very useful in gauging a player's abilities, influence in a game, and play style. 

 

Mostly importantly, statistics can easily give me a sense of what aspects of my gameplay I need to work on:

- Win rate: Am I influencing the outcome of the game enough? Am I playing to the objective?

- Damage per game: Am sufficiently I assisting my teammates in destroying the enemy, and contributing to the destruction of enemy ships?

- Kills per game: Am I focusing on finishing off damaged enemies so that my teammates will take less damage, and therefore survive longer to win the game?

- Plane kills per game: (Not too useful) Am I controlling the skies for my team as much as I should (Can be manipulated easily by divisioning often with carriers)

- Experience per game: (Not too useful) Am I playing to the objective (e.g. getting caps, defending caps, potential damage, spotting damage)? However, it is a bit difficult to draw a correlation between these contributions with the actual experience per game obtained. 

- Average tier: Am I a seal-clubber or not? Am I a bully? Should I start picking on players my own size? Lol

 

While stat-bashing, in line with my definition for such actions as set out above, is something that I consider to be toxic and generally unfavourable to the gaming community, I do believe that constructive advice based on in-game statistics can really help an individual improve their gameplay, should they seek to do so. 

 

If the advice is delivered in a constructive manner, remaining objective to understanding the reason behind the statistics and whether any changes in play would be beneficial to the player, is not what I would consider stat-bashing. 

 

Summary / TL:DR 

Statistics are useful for most purposes, but not all.  

  1. It's only stat-bashing if you choose to interpret it as such.
  2. Just because someone is bringing up your stats does not automatically mean they are 'bashing' you. 
  3. If you care about how well you play the game - pay attention to your statistics, as they can give you some key insights into your abilities.

 

Please feel free to engage in a healthy discussion below, and please try to keep it friendly, whether or not you agree with me. 

:fish_cute_2:

Edited by LordTyphoon
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44 minutes ago, LordTyphoon said:

Summary / TL:DR 

Statistics are useful for most purposes, but not all.  

  1. It's only stat-bashing if you choose to interpret it as such.
  2. Just because someone is bringing up your stats does not automatically mean they are 'bashing' you. 
  3. If you care about how well you play the game - pay attention to your statistics, as they can give you some key insights into your abilities.

 

Please feel free to engage in a healthy discussion below, and please try to keep it friendly, whether or not you agree with me. 

:fish_cute_2:

very nice post, i'm reserveing a spot for muh reply when i get off ze bus(im off ze bus)

If you haven't met me before, I am drakon233. My specialty on this forum can be described in a number of ways:

- salt breathing drakon

- :drakonation:

- basher of anything i find illogical 

- Troll.

to start off, i'd like to say that  I'm very logical in my thinking. i espically hate 3 kinds of people

1st is braggarts who bullshits a lot and makes up shit and misleads other people, 

2nd are people who always say "i feel that" or "but i think" when the other people in the discussion has hard facts, proof and evidence to back them up, and they think that their feelings matter

the last kind is statbashers, the kind of people who answer everything with "my stats are better then your's"

anyways, regarding your post, i'd have to make it clear here that i dislike stat-bashing  regardless of what has happened because i was on the receiving end of it during my early days in gaming, and i know how frustrating it is to have people lording their superiority over you and countering everything you say by saying "you have worse stats then me, therefore, you are wrong". which is just plain bullshit, no arguments or debates will get anywhere if that happens, the point of having a forum like this is about discussing and debating issues that we find interesting

Stats are a pretty important part of any discussion, mainly because in a multiplayer game with many many veritables, stats are pretty much the only consistent indicator of performance, ergo if you want to see how you or anyone else do in game, apart from stalking them in divs and sync-dropping, stats are the only thing that can give you a idea on how someone else plays.

Why is this important? because your own opinions on performance is subjective, and stats are objective. you could think that you are the best player in the world and you stats can tell you that you are shit. and you need to accept that as the truth. period

k, now we talked about why  stats are important, lm going to talk about how stats should be applied

 foucs down the ****** who has the highest WR on the enemy team

there are many kinds of stats we can look at in this game, and i'll explain how to see your performance with them

WinRate: this is prahapes the single biggest indicator of how good you are in the game, because  the only thing that is consistent in every battle that you go into is your own performance(dont mention the can of worms that are divisions...), if your WR is low, then that means that you are NOT carrying your weight in all the battles that you enter, and most of the time you are simply a dead weight to the rest of the team, and that you should find ways to improve unless you are happy with being shit, then go ahead and continue to suck, and ofc the vice versa is true, the higher your WR, the more you contribute to the team, whether it be through killing DDs, dealing massive amount of damage, PTFO, spotting the enemy orrip smoking teams, WR can tell you how much you contributed

ships that use this as main indicator of performance: CVs, DDs, CAs,BBs

 

Average damage:average damage shows how much you have directly whittled down the enemy team's health pool, one of the biggest requirements in the game, this isnt always the best gauge for a player's skills because some classes inherently can deal more damage then others that contribute more in other ways, but generally speaking, the higher your average damage is, the better you are (the players who have very high average damage and low WR usually get them by farming damage and leaveing their team to die, not a glorious thing to do but it's a thing in game and we just have to deal with it

ships that use this as main indicator of performance: CVs,, CAs,BBs

 

(WIP>)

Edited by drakon233

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Super Tester
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Well written @LordTyphoon.

Personally I don't like it when people use stats of one player just to shame him, for example "Why this 45% WR player is on my team all the time". First of all, I don't even think that checking on other's stats are that healthy (except for one case which Ill describe below). Or, as it happened to me many times, one specific guy here would just bring up my stats just to mention that "You are not a purple, you know nothing" because all he used to do in forum was to whine "BBs are OP because they have big guns and tough armor". Just some examples. Or "you don't play CV, so you know nothing, WE CV Elitists are always better than you"... these things hurt your feelings for sure, but I tend to forget.

However, when people asks for constructive suggestion, it is a good idea to dig into his/her stats to get a clue about his/her shortcomings or lackings. For example, someone who mostly plays battleship should not have low average damage or low KD, someone who plays destroyers should have a healthy winrate and experience etc. Many people say they don't care about winrate (or any other specific stat for that matter) prevent themselves from getting better at a great extent. If someone does not care about statistics at all, it means he/she just wants to drive the boat, playing as a competitive game is not his thing and may be playing the wrong game.

I look at my stats everyday after I play matches. Why? Because I wan't to see an increase in one or more field at the very least. If I do worse than my current average (which is already pretty shit), it tells me instantly that I did a really poor job today, and I try to figure out what I did wrong. Stats are good tool for self assessment and should be like that. Not to establish your supremacy over someone else.

The only case I keep digging stats of some specific players are because they are my targets, I wan't to get better in the game like that. They probably don't know, I just like to stalk people and see what ship are they playing, which stats are they boosting and stuffs like that.

 

TL;DR;

Statistics are very useful for self assessment and improvements.

Statistics are very useful for secret admirers or stalkers.

Statistics are quite useful for suggesting someone a change of playstyle.

Everything else is a big no-no for me.

 

 

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I have a bit different opinion regarding division. Many people think you just get in a division and get free winrate, first of all, most of them has no idea about divisioning at all and are just salty. Gaining bigger numbers is a lot easier when playing solo because you can just ditch the team and run after the stat you are looking to boost, Good division players on the otherhand only has one goal in their mind, to win the game. They are true competitive players, I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

I would rather listen to  a 70%+ div player than a 55% solo player because that div player is a team player and he knows how to co-ordinate. Solo players cannot be trusted to do the right thing when required, also, communication is a great part of the division play. It's more like, most solo players do not care much, some other's think they are special for not playing in division, some think it's un-ethical, but it is a game, and desire to win every single one of your matches is totally valid. So I think discarding division stats and just going for solo stats is a mistake. I saw a guy in reddit discord was asking about a player's solo stat who has 100k+ average damage in division over 7k games. If this is not a sign of inferiority complex or solo elitism, I don't know what is.

 

In no way I mean that solo players are not great players or division players cannot play solo. Some of our server top players are all division players, they don't play solo at all. But they all are 6-7 times rank 1 players, with very high winrate there too. And then there are players like Haku or CatOnBoard, super unicum even playing solo. It is not like a solo player cannot do well in div or vice versa, so there is no real need for a distinction when looking at numbers.

 

The motto of solo play is to try your best and hope that the team dont lose. Division is there to tilt the odds towards the team, even overcoming some of the mistakes made by your teammates. I think if you really want to make a distinction you could say, lets disregard the winrate for division and solo play altogether, since one is usually higher and the other is usually lower. Other stat's are pretty comparable regardless of solo, 2man, 3man divisions.

Edited by icy_phoenix

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Alpha Tester
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Unfortunately the most important stat goes unrecorded.

The one that tells you how much enjoyment you get from the game.

All other stats pale before this one.

 

My 5 old nephew is terrible at this game, very terrible. 

But when he plays the sheer joy on his face is amazing. Win or lose, (mainly sinking early) he will spend the rest of the day telling everyone about his experience.

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2 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

I would rather listen to  a 70%+ div player than a 55% solo player

Why you lowkey trying to insult me :Smile_izmena:
oh wait I have 55% solo and 70% 3man-div. So will you listen to me Icy senpai :3

Back to the topic, yeah stat bashers are annoying. Some people start attacking you directly using stats. So many times I have seen people who respond with 'stfu green/blue noob' when I try to make suggestions in random battles. Completely unprovoked personal attacks like that are useless to all parties involved.
 

BUT, 'provoked' stat-'analysis' is justified in my eyes as there is no better means of measuring a player's skills and knowledge of the game. This is only needed when said player is discussing the mechanics of the game. I have no problem with 30% winrate players appearing in my teams because RNG will put him in the enemy team in some other match later on so ultimately its my own ability that lets me win or lose games.

Of course stats don't directly translate into understanding of game mechanics. e.g. recently I watched a commentary by an amazing EU player "flambass", who didn't know how overpens and penetrations are calculated. That doesn't stop him from being a great player with great stats and having said knowledge didn't make me a better player than him. But it can't also be denied that someone with sufficient knowledge of game mechanics and interest in the game should at least have average-above average stats.

I'm sure everyone has met people irl who keep claiming that "getting good marks doesn't make you smart" to excuse their own shortcomings

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6 minutes ago, Adm_Kunkka said:

I'm sure everyone has met people irl who keep claiming that "getting good marks doesn't make you smart" to excuse their own shortcomings

I mean.... that was me in school obviously, because of the immense pressure form the Kid next door who was always better at exams. :joy: But this is very true indeed. We are good at finding excuses and sound like totally not giving an excuse.

 

Also.... stop stat shaming me on discord.... @Adm_Kunkka....

Edited by icy_phoenix

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Nice post - it's good to see some actual valuable post rather than sharkbait all day :P

Personally I do not like stat-bashing as it's a lazy way to participate in a discussion. But when you have 40-ish players who put their ego above everything else and refuse to admit that they are wrong without any reasonable logical argument , maybe it's best to just leave a comment like: "Dear Mr. Red Stat, you'll need to git gudder before being qualified to talk to us about this problem" and save your time.

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1 minute ago, icy_phoenix said:

I mean.... that was me in school obviously, because of the immense pressure form the Kid next door who was always better at exams. :joy:

 

Also.... stop stat shaming me on discord.... @Adm_Kunkka....

literally every asian kid

"look at kim next door, kim gets 99 on his test, why you only get 98, you disgrace to family, are you boen stupid? did i feed you too much chinese baby powder asa kid, why u no besto in kalss blah blah blah blah blah blah

-30 minutes later...

blah blah blah so you need to gid gud and get more scores why you still play stupid game you want to be homeless when you adult grow up and study more like kim next door"

 

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17 minutes ago, AntifoulAwl said:

Unfortunately the most important stat goes unrecorded.

The one that tells you how much enjoyment you get from the game.

All other stats pale before this one.

 

My 5 old nephew is terrible at this game, very terrible. 

But when he plays the sheer joy on his face is amazing. Win or lose, (mainly sinking early) he will spend the rest of the day telling everyone about his experience.

 

Well, that's great to hear. However, having fun in a game is all great and stuffs, only problem is, different people define *fun* in different ways. Some people are happy to play the game, some people are happy to win the game etc. And this is a team game on top of that. Imagine that, you wanted to have fun in a game by ramming an enemy, so you did that. And lets say that put your team in a great disadvantage. So you were happy, may be 5 other players on your team were not happy by your action. So are you really having fun by ruining someone else's fun? Is that ethical at all? Im not talking about you in particular, just a general thought. Ofcourse not everygame has to be tryharding, but I have found a few players who just load in, yolo and die and then say "worth it". Id disagree.

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6 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

I mean.... that was me in school obviously, because of the immense pressure form the Kid next door who was always better at exams. :joy: But this is very true indeed. We are good at finding excuses and sound like totally not giving an excuse.

Lul, I was always that kid next door :Smile-_tongue:
My friends didn't like taking me inside their homes because their parents wouldn't stop comparing them to me :v
 

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Just now, Adm_Kunkka said:

Lul, I was always that kid next door :Smile-_tongue:
My friends didn't like taking me inside their homes because their parents wouldn't stop comparing them to me :v
 

oh yeah? try being the overachieving youngest member of the family and having ever one of your simular aged relatives either growing up listing to your "epic" story or being jelly at you, that sucks more

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Just now, Adm_Kunkka said:

Lul, I was always that kid next door :Smile-_tongue:
My friends didn't like taking me inside their homes because their parents wouldn't stop comparing them to me :v
 

You see? Kids like you ruined my whole school life. Now I hate you...

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1 minute ago, icy_phoenix said:

Wut? All I said was you panic beached in a Mutsuki :D, then you started showing me your Fletcher stats.... how did I start it??

Uhh, showing you my fletcher stats was just to dispel the idea that I'm a shit DD player in general.
I never brought up YOUR stats so how is  that stat shaming?

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Just now, Adm_Kunkka said:

Uhh, showing you my fletcher stats was just to dispel the idea that I'm a shit DD player in general.
I never brought up YOUR stats so how is  that stat shaming?

Go away you big bully over achieving kid.... I no talk to you....

>.<

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4 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

So are you really having fun by ruining someone else's fun?

Isn't that the whole point of a team vs team game, one team wins and is happy, the other team loses and is disappointed/angry? Effectively every time you win you are causing the other player to feel anger and disappointment. So yes, just by playing the game you are ruining other peoples "fun".

Win or lose I still feel that little twinge of happiness when I sink a 'stat-basher'.

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Super Tester
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3 minutes ago, darkflame88 said:

Isn't that the whole point of a team vs team game, one team wins and is happy, the other team loses and is disappointed/angry? Effectively every time you win you are causing the other player to feel anger and disappointment. So yes, just by playing the game you are ruining other peoples "fun".

I didn't know you get mad at people from winning team because you lost... that's weird. My point was, not being a reason for someone else's disappointment, aka not contributing to the team effort. You can lose, and still have fun, if the game is competitive. But one sided games because some of your teammates wanted to have too much fun is usually the main reason of frustration.

Edited by icy_phoenix

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Erm.. is it even possible to stat-bash icy? XD

Anyway~

Whenever I get [SALTY] *badum-tss* over terrible players / just bad team play in general, sometimes I point out all the mistakes I can find. So it's like... "constructive whining" XD

I also criticize mistakes  even in the events of a victory, especially those that could have been avoided,  and point out good decisions made during the match, respectively.

And whenever I play low-to-mid tier matches, I assume that a significant number of players on the team aren't as experienced as I am, so whenever I do the aforementioned things, in the end I say:

"to all the players new to the game, I hope you will learn from this"

But for the past few weeks I've been focused on grinding towards Hindy so I haven't been able to do these as much.

So many clans playing~ so in the end, I'm the one getting schooled hahaha XD

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9 minutes ago, darkflame88 said:

Isn't that the whole point of a team vs team game, one team wins and is happy, the other team loses and is disappointed/angry? Effectively every time you win you are causing the other player to feel anger and disappointment. So yes, just by playing the game you are ruining other peoples "fun".

Win or lose I still feel that little twinge of happiness when I sink a 'stat-basher'.

It's okay if it's just one team wins and is happy, while the other team loses and is sad

The problem starts when players on YOUR team act irresponsibly, causing problems to the other players, which then causes the defeat of your team.

And that they are acting in such a manner because it brings enjoyment to them.

Remember the saying: your freedom ends where mine begins.

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Just now, seiji09 said:

It's okay if it's just one team wins and is happy, while the other team loses and is sad

The problem starts when players on YOUR team act irresponsibly, causing problems to the other players, which then causes the defeat of your team.

And that they are acting in such a manner because it brings enjoyment to them.

Remember the saying: your freedom ends where mine begins.

which is why the EULA is a thing

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