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Macras

Thoughts on new DD's and recent changes?

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I was going to come and rant about how I felt after this weekend, but ill try and keep it a little positive and ask everyone else's opinion. I only have low tier ships and am new, which is why I'm seeking everyone else's opinion.

It may be a little too soon to tell, as they are new there is more of them than normal, but I'm going to suggest, that unless there are some changes, this is going to be the "new normal".

I didn't have a decent game in  a BB or CA all weekend (less so the CA) Just way to many invisible ships and torps coming from anywhere and everywhere. I (personally) felt that DD's in general certainly didn't need any "extra" help and had generally already been overpopulated, at least at the low to mid tiers where I play atm (quite common to have 3-5 DD's even before this patch). WAAAAY to much smoke and invisibility. I may be noob at Wows (and tanks) but I have been playing MMO's since they started, way longer than I like to admit, and even way back in the beginning, being killed by things you cant see was always a source of great hatred and angst on forums and in game ( probably second only to too much crowd control back in warcraft era PVP), and in many cases did lead to a lot of people stopping playing a particular game until it was sorted. Hence my surprise with the new DD's and their smoke ability.

CV's, IDK I have HOSHO and, courtesy of the IJN bundle, the Zuiho.  I haven't played the Zuiho enough to form an opinion, but as far as HOSHO goes, there really is a problem when being confronted by the US carriers. I don't mind one having an air superiority advantage, but there should be an element of skill to it. ATM if your team has the US CV, you 99% assured you are going to win the air battle. Not sure how to fix that, but way one sided atm. Also noted, that on the rare occasion a CV tried to spot a cap area that was being camped by DD's, they had no luck at all, so why people think that CV's are unfair and disallowed in some game modes I cant understand. I'm way less frustrated by CV's that the new batch of DD's.

The IJN bundle, I got as an early xmas present. My advice- DONT. Some good ships in it, and some absolute rubbish. Ill leave that for a separate rant, but I cant understand why as a company WG has such a problem with getting any sort of consistent balance. My second point (that I will take up with these certain reviewers in person) are the reviews for premium ships have some considerable bias, and unfairly promote the advantages of prem ships with absolutely NO mention of any downsides. Anyone else with prem ships like to look at the review of that ship and compare reality to what is publicised online and let me know if its just me? im not crying about the money I spent, I can easily afford it, but I would like to stop others being hurt or disgruntled by this.  I just think that A/many of the reviewers are being a little too optimistic in their views and opinions. B/ WG really ned to work on some of these ships, not just premiums, but some of the poorer tech tree ships as well.

 

I cant really think of a single improvement to the game after the weekend, Maybe someone else can think of one? Not talking clan battles , just purely lowbie PUB battle perspective atm.

 

Sorry for the long post. Please do try and give some useful (hopefully positive?) feedback and ideas.

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5 minutes ago, Macras said:

 

CV's, IDK I have HOSHO and, courtesy of the IJN bundle, the Zuiho.  I haven't played the Zuiho enough to form an opinion, but as far as HOSHO goes, there really is a problem when being confronted by the US carriers. I don't mind one having an air superiority advantage, but there should be an element of skill to it. ATM if your team has the US CV, you 99% assured you are going to win the air battle.

believe me buddy, the moment you reach Ryujo, the only threat for IJN CV is only Saipan...... bogue dont have 201 loadout so it will super easy for zuiho compared when i farm to Ryujo....

 

8 minutes ago, Macras said:

 

The IJN bundle, I got as an early xmas present. My advice- DONT. Some good ships in it, and some absolute rubbish. Ill leave that for a separate rant, but I cant understand why as a company WG has such a problem with getting any sort of consistent balance. My second point (that I will take up with these certain reviewers in person) are the reviews for premium ships have some considerable bias, and unfairly promote the advantages of prem ships with absolutely NO mention of any downsides. Anyone else with prem ships like to look at the review of that ship and compare reality to what is publicised online and let me know if its just me? im not crying about the money I spent, I can easily afford it, but I would like to stop others being hurt or disgruntled by this.  I just think that A/many of the reviewers are being a little too optimistic in their views and opinions. B/ WG really ned to work on some of these ships, not just premiums, but some of the poorer tech tree ships as well.

:cap_tea: this is the reason why i love Warship, its almost balanced on premium..... WG try to balance the game (not always working as intended) the Belfast is no more.... and the only last OP ship is Saipan... maybe will get nerf soon

 

btw, WG did tell pros and cons of ship. you need to read wiki before buying it

_______________________________________

 

man, i know you are noob.... everyone START AS NOOB. i remember the day when CV is OP (before stupid AA buff on DD and new premium AA).....

i always recomend people to play CV.... but not today....

 

here is some famous advice from ming

 

"there is no bad ship, only the noob player"

 

did you know, i am good at CV and decent at BB/CA..... but i am ultimate noob on DD

but starting from today i have decide..... YOLO!

 

 

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DD at low tier is strong, due to many factor mainly player at that level is not have enough experience which made great for torpedo hunting ground

 

at high tier,1 DD alone can lock or halt large number of ships from the objective

but this is more of a exploiting strategical strenght than inherit class to class advantage

In general. at higher tier,  people know how unchecked DD is pain in the but and respect DD enough that they would drop whatever they doing to shoot them whenever they spotted

thats single behavior alone, is the one that made the major diffrence

Edited by humusz

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1.  New DD line just released = higher than normal numbers of DDs in lower tier games

2.  CV's change as the tiers go up, alt attacks (strafe and drop) change the meta completely

3. Marketing will never tell you the downside of a product

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On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 4:37 PM, Rwasknum said:

believe me buddy, the moment you reach Ryujo, the only threat for IJN CV is only Saipan...... bogue dont have 201 loadout so it will super easy for zuiho compared when i farm to Ryujo....

Partly my point, (from what I have heard and read from other players, all CV's used to be pretty unbalanced/OP) Now we have 1 particular US CV, and then the rest of the IJN line, that are not equally matched, and yet no one can explain why they cant make some slight adjustments to balance them, rather than the sledgehammer approach they usually seem to use.

 

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 4:37 PM, Rwasknum said:

:cap_tea: this is the reason why i love Warship, its almost balanced on premium..... WG try to balance the game (not always working as intended) the Belfast is no more.... and the only last OP ship is Saipan... maybe will get nerf soon

IDK so much about WoWs, as I admitted, I only recently started playing. WoT ill use the T10 example, want to guess how many of the total number of T10 tanks are played regularly?  check the stats, and with every release, the new tanks( esp prems) are better. While I'm sure this is to encourage people to grind the new lines, it makes a lot of the old content redundant and I presonally just don't have time for it.

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 4:37 PM, Rwasknum said:

 

btw, WG did tell pros and cons of ship. you need to read wiki before buying it

Actually, I was referring to several of the private reviewers, who are given access to "press" accounts with all the ships and content free. I'm not to bothered, as I said I can afford what I spent, but I would imagine there are quite a few others that may be.

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 4:37 PM, Rwasknum said:

_______________________________________

 

man, i know you are noob.... everyone START AS NOOB. i remember the day when CV is OP (before stupid AA buff on DD and new premium AA).....

i always recomend people to play CV.... but not today....

 

here is some famous advice from ming

 

"there is no bad ship, only the noob player"

Heard all this before., and I don't disagree.

ill make a point from my personal experience based in WoT again.

 

Over the years I have tried to introduce 5-6 people, who all had previous MMO experience, to WoT. Guess how many still play?

0. ( they all still play other online games, some of which are a lot more complex and steeper learning curves than WoT and WoWs)

 

Put simply(IMO, and this is part of what I am trying to get across), if your not looking after the low to mid tiers, and at the same time your allowing your experienced players to farm new players to improve their stats, they don't stick around.

I can give you contact details for each of those people, and you can ask in person why they quit.

WG needs to address the fact that in both WoWs and WoT the most imbalanced tiers are the low tiers where the new players need to learn the game and get experience.

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 4:37 PM, Rwasknum said:

 

did you know, i am good at CV and decent at BB/CA..... but i am ultimate noob on DD

but starting from today i have decide..... YOLO!

 

 

Actually I do OK in DD's, and did switch and join the crowd and did OK, but atm if you are trying to grind low tier BB's, your going to find your win rate very dependant on the DD's on your team. (IDK but) isn't that why everyone hated the CV's previously? they had too much influence on the outcome of a game?

The other point or question I was trying to make was, what did the new DD line bring to the game?

Im really asking this as a question as I don't have experience at high tiers yet. But I think once again WG has been forced to look to a gimmick that is going to upset gameplay and balance to try and make the new line different.

My final point or concern would be that in 6-12 months time you are going to find DD"s over populated in t10 matches, and numbers of BB's dropping. If there really has been a lack of DD's at high tiers, maybe this will be a good thing. IDK.

But as I said, in other games players very quickly got seriously frustrated by dying to things they couldn't see and hit. I hope this doesn't turn out to be the same mistake all over again.

 

 

PS, thankyou for your  reply, at least you tried to present an opinion without being too negative or just dismissing me as a complete noob with no idea.

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On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 4:41 PM, humusz said:

DD at low tier is strong, due to many factor mainly player at that level is not have enough experience which made great for torpedo hunting ground

 

at high tier,1 DD alone can lock or halt large number of ships from the objective

but this is more of a exploiting strategical strenght than inherit class to class advantage

In general. at higher tier,  people know how unchecked DD is pain in the but and respect DD enough that they would drop whatever they doing to shoot them whenever they spotted

thats single behavior alone, is the one that made the major difference

DD at low tier atm is way too popular. I know this will even out over time, It always happens when a new class/ship/tank/character is introduced.

 

My question is, if the smoke mechanic continues into the higher tiers, do you think it will be a problem or not? Maybe it will help make DD more relevant at that level?

 

My previous experience, based on a LOT of years of gaming, is people REALLY hate being killed by things they cant see or control, and  I worry if WoWs isn't heading into that territory.

 

Also, do you think that the new DD line really has anything to offer the game overall? I think at low tiers atm its making playing BB's very un enjoyable, and I cant really see that changing. Its way too easy for even an in experienced player with a low skill captain to take down a BB at the same of even higher tier, and the opposing BB player in many cases cant even fire back or defend themselves effectively. They are completely at the mercy of their team.

 

If you read the other reply I made on this thread, you may understand where I am coming from about the need to keep low tiers balanced and playable, without a good introduction to the game at this level, many people just give up.

 

Ultimately, what we want is MORE players, and the game to be stronger. Is this the right way to go??

 

 

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3 hours ago, Macras said:

 

My previous experience, based on a LOT of years of gaming, is people REALLY hate being killed by things they cant see or control, and  I worry if WoWs isn't heading into that territory.

Don't worry WoWs isn't heading anywhere there. Far from it.

In fact with the removal of open water stealth firing and the smoke changes, I would say the game is moving in the opposite direction.

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The reviewers you talked about are almost all certainly very skilled players and would be able to make most ships work, but even then they will sometimes hate a ship. Like when Ichase hated the Dunkerque or Krasny Krym for example. Before making a purchase make sure you watch a bunch of reviews from lots of different play styles, and sometimes you should ignore what they say and look at the game-play in the video. Sometimes they complain over the top of game-play that is going really quite well and praise ships that are doing poorly. I wouldn't get bundles because of the cost, and you can't possibly research every ship or may pay for one you don't want.

Learning to deal with DD and their torpedoes is something everyone has to go through. At low tiers DDs seem powerful cause of the quick reload and short ranges. However if you learn when to expect torpedoes you can dodge them very effectively -before- they are spotted. It takes experience and practice. From mid tier upwards it becomes much harder for DDs to consistently hit ships with torpedoes mostly because the player base gets much more experienced at dodging them. I suggest you play DDs yourself, as that will give you an idea how it works. Even low tier BBs are quite capable of dodging many fish. Ichase made a pretty good video with him baiting and dodging a DDs torpedoes whilst sailing the Haruna.

I took Mikasa out recently, it's T2 and one of the worst manuevering ships in game, but I was able to dodge torpedoes and even sunk a DD that got too close. It wasn't a win, I was the last ship left versus a South Carolina and the new Pan Asian DD. The DD did something smart, he withdrew out of sight, repositioned without being spotted and launched torpedoes from an unexpected angle. A bit of luck meant I had just finished sinking a german DD and dodging it's fish when I got caught out and sunk. I didn't have time or information to anticipate the torpedoes in the end, but usually you do get some information that should clue you into making a dodging maneuver.

People who are farming stats don't tend to do it at low-mid tier so much because the game results are too unpredictable, rewards are much lower, and even experienced players will get sunk easier in the more fragile ships. Stat farmers form fishing divisions (basically a way to stack the MM in their favour) and tend to farm at T7 and up. Experienced players playing solo at lower tiers can't effectively farm stats, there are many other reasons they might be playing at that tier level. You won't find stat farmers at T5 and bellow very much.

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10 hours ago, Macras said:

My question is, if the smoke mechanic continues into the higher tiers, do you think it will be a problem or not? Maybe it will help make DD more relevant at that level?

 

My previous experience, based on a LOT of years of gaming, is people REALLY hate being killed by things they cant see or control, and  I worry if WoWs isn't heading into that territory.

 

Also, do you think that the new DD line really has anything to offer the game overall? I think at low tiers atm its making playing BB's very un enjoyable, and I cant really see that changing. Its way too easy for even an in experienced player with a low skill captain to take down a BB at the same of even higher tier, and the opposing BB player in many cases cant even fire back or defend themselves effectively. They are completely at the mercy of their team.

I thing You need more experience.

get to mid or high tier battle, strenghten your basic by try playing every class so you can get what makes them tick

 

At high tier, Battleship is arguably strongest class overall

on one on one scenario DD would still kill BB easily, but from overall match standpoint. playing DD on high tier is harder compared to low tier with Radar, Hydro, comander skill like vigilance, improved ship speed and manuvertibility etc

 

this just my Oppinion

get out from Low tier, if you want to better yourself

 

Edited by humusz

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On 12/4/2017 at 9:15 PM, Macras said:

I didn't have a decent game in  a BB or CA all weekend (less so the CA) Just way to many invisible ships and torps coming from anywhere and everywhere. I (personally) felt that DD's in general certainly didn't need any "extra" help and had generally already been overpopulated, at least at the low to mid tiers where I play atm (quite common to have 3-5 DD's even before this patch). WAAAAY to much smoke and invisibility.

If you are surprised by torps a lot, maybe try the Vigilance captain skill, and, of course, stop sailing at constant speed in straight lines. Just by manoeuvring regularly you avoid many torpedos. You may still run into them, but not so often it ruins your day.

 

And consider this: DD’s are fragile and lack fire-power. Speed and concealment are their qualities. When a DD driver has worked out how to use the advantages of his ship, he can be a formidable enemy  - or formidable ally.

 

Higher tier ships get hydro search and radar, that makes life harder for DD’s. At all tiers, other DDs make life hard for DDs.

 

There are techniques how to attack DD’s in smoke, you just have to learn them – may still end badly for you, haha. If you have a CV on the team, you can ask him to spot the DD. From the direction of the torpedos, you can work out where the DD was a while ago. You can team up with a DD on your team and go DD hunting.

 

But again, the most important advice is: don’t sail in straight lines, at a constant speed.

 

I’d suggest you watch a few Youtube videos, learn. It’s all not at all rocket science. Learn to configure the interface properly, for example switching “last known position” on in the interface does help a lot. Work out what sights work for you.

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On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 9:08 AM, PeterMoe1963 said:

If you are surprised by torps a lot, maybe try the Vigilance captain skill, and, of course, stop sailing at constant speed in straight lines. Just by manoeuvring regularly you avoid many torpedos. You may still run into them, but not so often it ruins your day.

Seriously??!! At one stage I recon I had no less than 20 torps in the water heading at me. There are often 2-3 DD's together firing a spread every time they reload, and alternating smoke. Sure turning towards them can help reduce the area, WASD helps too, but there is NO WAY you can avoid that many torps. I found that an almost continuous thing over the weekend when playing BB's, and I doubt that is going to change( at low tier). The new line of DD's are specifically going to be hunting BB's and avoiding other DD's that can hit them with their torps.

And consider this: DD’s are fragile and lack fire-power. Speed and concealment are their qualities. When a DD driver has worked out how to use the advantages of his ship, he can be a formidable enemy  - or formidable ally.

 

At low tier and having several DD's in each game, they alternate smoke and are not often revealed, even when they are, the slow turning guns on a BB are no match for the speed or manoeuvrability, even when you do hit, quite often it over pens for about 200 dmg. 

 

Higher tier ships get hydro search and radar, that makes life harder for DD’s. At all tiers, other DDs make life hard for DDs.

I specifically mentioned low tiers, as I said, I think this is an area WG consistently overlooks. At higher tiers I would hope your team takes more responsibility for the DD's, at low tear BB'S HAVE NO REAL DEEFENCE. Seriously, try a few PVP games at t4-5 in a BB and see what your win rate ends up at. I don't care how good you are, there is no avoiding the DD torps, the range, reload, speed and stealth is just stupid compared to the BB's at this level.

 

There are techniques how to attack DD’s in smoke, you just have to learn them – may still end badly for you, haha. If you have a CV on the team, you can ask him to spot the DD. From the direction of the torpedos, you can work out where the DD was a while ago. You can team up with a DD on your team and go DD hunting.

 

Forget the team, I was talking low tiers, the team isn't going to defend anyone in a BB. Never has and never will. Players at this level( apart from seal clubbers who ignore the BB's anyway because they don't need them) aren't going to help.

 

But again, the most important advice is: don’t sail in straight lines, at a constant speed.

 

Good luck with that!!

 

I’d suggest you watch a few Youtube videos, learn. It’s all not at all rocket science. Learn to configure the interface properly, for example switching “last known position” on in the interface does help a lot. Work out what sights work for you.

 

Done all that. And more to the point I bet $100 there wasn't 1 single utube vid of one of our utube streamers players playing BB over the last few weeks, not at low tier anyway. In fact, I promise to pay $100 Aust to the first decent streamer that post a vid showing low tier BB play as fair and even. In fact the opposite, there are streamers saying that in both WoT and WoWs the game is becoming unbalanced with too many changes and too many new tanks and ships and it needs to change. (can provide links, but I'm not at home atm)

 

PS did a search on utube and I know my money is safe at least as far as the 5-6 streamers from WoT and Wows that I subscribe to

 

Again, thanks for your input, I appreciate you are trying to give good advice, but once again, not addressing many of the concerns I have raised. WG does need to keep the low tiers in mind while making these changes, and low tier balance is a problem they continuously ignore, as is seal clubbing. I have players in my clan that really enjoy farming new players at low tiers, personally I think its BS, but I know they aren't alone. I also know that most other online PVP oriented games have introduced changes to control exactly that behaviour. WG still insist it isn't a problem.
 I think as a consumer, as well as someone that has spent time and money trying to get friends into the game unsuccessfully, that it needs some changes.

 

And until a few people start making the same noises it isn't going to happen.

 

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@macras

It is true that some low tier destroyers are way too powerful with their torp spam. E.g. the kamikaze and it's insane reload speed on torps.

But low tier bbs aren't actually as helpless against DDS as you make it out to be. DDS at that tier can only launch 6 or so torps at a time which isn't exactly enough to cover all vectors of a bbs possible paths unlike the 10-15 torps higher tier DDS usually have, coupled with the higher torp speed and the worse turning circle of high tier bbs. 

 

Also, your claim that bbs can't even deal with DDS at low tier is utter nonsense. Bbs actually have a respectable skill ceiling despite the low skill floor. I admit I don't play low tier games unless I'm grinding, but recently I played some Wyoming games to get a usn cv. I had absolutely no trouble dealing with upto 3 DDS at once. Low tier bbs handle too well for a DD to easily predict the path unless they go yolo, at which point the bb ap comes into play.

Besides, low tier DD players are usually new players and you can easily outplay them. Ofc if you meet a sealclubber in a Clemson with 19 pt captain, that's another story

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@Macras Hey mate, welcome to the game. 

I had a look at your in-game statistics because I wanted to find out (assuming that this is your only World of Warships account) how you play at the moment.

Looks like you’re playing through every ship line at the same time!

There's a lot of tips I want to give you and a lot of the forum regulars here are very experienced as well, so I won’t write you a slab of text but I'll just give you a few tips that I think will work for you based on my own experiences:

1.      Focus on a few ship lines first. I see you are playing many different ships from many different lines.  When first learning the game, don't grind many different ships from many different lines. The reason for this is that if you focus on playing just a few lines first, it becomes much easier for you to figure out what works and what doesn't work. When you move on later to play other ship lines, you can apply some of this knowledge too, making subsequent ship line grinds much easier. 

For cruisers I would recommend going up the Japanese line (Furutaka, Aoba, Myoko, etc.). Their playstyle is quite straight forward and guns quite strong. They are fast and manoeuvrable, but lack armour, so you will need to learn and master basic cruiser survival skills.

For battleships, I would recommend going up the German line (Konig, Bayern, Gneiseanu, etc.) because making mistakes in them are less punishing, which is useful when you are first starting out.

For destroyers, I would recommend first going up the US line again due to the ‘easy’ play style. Unlike some other destroyer lines, I recommend this line because you can still shoot yourself out of trouble if you make a mistake, and you have smokes that last a long time to hide yourself if need be.

Important note: I personally played about 5,000 random battles before I started playing up the Japanese destroyer line. They are widely regarded as the most difficult destroyer line to play well in, and you will need understanding of many aspects of destroyer, cruiser, and battleship gameplay before you will do well in them.
 

2.      Avoid High Tiers. Don’t play random battles (co-op is fine) with your Kii, Atago, and Mutsu yet. Most of all, don’t play your Kaga in random battles at all. Reasons: Kii and Mutsu have unreliable armour and you need to be very familiar with basic battleship play to succeed with either ship. Kaga is a difficult carrier to play in general due to its weak Tier 6 planes that can potential face Tier 9 AA ships! Atago is frequently in Tier 10 battles, where you need to understand basic cruiser manoeuvring/concealment tactics well to just stay alive (forgot doing damage). Best practice at the low tiers before playing these.
 

3.      Flamu: Watch videos on YouTube made by Flamu. Just go to YouTube and search ‘Flamu’ + ‘name of ship you are trying to learn’. He comprehensively goes through the strengths and weaknesses of every ship.

Hope this helps. Enjoy the game.

Edited by LordTyphoon

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On 12/21/2017 at 11:46 PM, Macras said:

at low tear BB'S HAVE NO REAL DEEFENCE

“Seriously, try a few PVP games at t4-5 in a BB and see what your win rate ends up at. I don't care how good you are, there is no avoiding the DD torps, the range, reload, speed and stealth is just stupid compared to the BB's at this level.”

 

Seriously, I don’t care about my win rate. If the same rules apply to BB’s and DD’s on *both* teams, how could that even affect the win rate?

 

I don’t have many ships below T4, but I do play T4/5 often. There are often players who have high tier ships and they play low-tier games.

 

Everybody gets hit by torps now and again, that’s carrier and ship torpedoes. When you are in a low tier BB without good AA and a carrier focuses on you, you will eat a lot more torpedos, compared to DD’s.

 

Don’t take this personal, but I think you just have to learn how to deal with DD’s. What you say sounds overly negative, with a lot of complaining and no solution.

 

Maybe you have to play DD’s for a while, so you understand them better? If DD’s have such a big advantage, playing DD should be endless fun and a guarantee for a high win rate, right?

 

From my own observations, when I drive a BB, I survive to the end of the battle much more often compared to driving a DD.

 

 “Done all that. And more to the point I bet $100 there wasn't 1 single utube vid of one of our utube streamers players playing BB over the last few weeks, not at low tier anyway. In fact, I promise to pay $100 Aust to the first decent streamer that post a vid showing low tier BB play as fair and even. In fact the opposite, there are streamers saying that in both WoT and WoWs the game is becoming unbalanced with too many changes and too many new tanks and ships and it needs to change. (can provide links, but I'm not at home atm)”

 

This is Jingles in a Mikasa (T2=lowest tier BB) dodging more than 30 torpedos in one game:

 

I don’t want your money, by the way.

 

And don’t bother with links where people complain about WG and claim the game is unbalanced. Conditions or changes apply equally to both teams.

 

You are in Australia?

 

I suggest we team up in a division, both drive BB’s, stick together and we see how things go. I have yet to see 20 torpedos heading my way in a low tier Random battle, maybe I learn something new?

 

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On ‎22‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 6:48 AM, LordTyphoon said:

@Macras Hey mate, welcome to the game. 

I had a look at your in-game statistics because I wanted to find out (assuming that this is your only World of Warships account) how you play at the moment.

Looks like you’re playing through every ship line at the same time!

There's a lot of tips I want to give you and a lot of the forum regulars here are very experienced as well, so I won’t write you a slab of text but I'll just give you a few tips that I think will work for you based on my own experiences:

1.      Focus on a few ship lines first. I see you are playing many different ships from many different lines.  When first learning the game, don't grind many different ships from many different lines. The reason for this is that if you focus on playing just a few lines first, it becomes much easier for you to figure out what works and what doesn't work. When you move on later to play other ship lines, you can apply some of this knowledge too, making subsequent ship line grinds much easier. 

For cruisers I would recommend going up the Japanese line (Furutaka, Aoba, Myoko, etc.). Their playstyle is quite straight forward and guns quite strong. They are fast and manoeuvrable, but lack armour, so you will need to learn and master basic cruiser survival skills.

For battleships, I would recommend going up the German line (Konig, Bayern, Gneiseanu, etc.) because making mistakes in them are less punishing, which is useful when you are first starting out.

For destroyers, I would recommend first going up the US line again due to the ‘easy’ play style. Unlike some other destroyer lines, I recommend this line because you can still shoot yourself out of trouble if you make a mistake, and you have smokes that last a long time to hide yourself if need be.

Important note: I personally played about 5,000 random battles before I started playing up the Japanese destroyer line. They are widely regarded as the most difficult destroyer line to play well in, and you will need understanding of many aspects of destroyer, cruiser, and battleship gameplay before you will do well in them.
 

2.      Avoid High Tiers. Don’t play random battles (co-op is fine) with your Kii, Atago, and Mutsu yet. Most of all, don’t play your Kaga in random battles at all. Reasons: Kii and Mutsu have unreliable armour and you need to be very familiar with basic battleship play to succeed with either ship. Kaga is a difficult carrier to play in general due to its weak Tier 6 planes that can potential face Tier 9 AA ships! Atago is frequently in Tier 10 battles, where you need to understand basic cruiser manoeuvring/concealment tactics well to just stay alive (forgot doing damage). Best practice at the low tiers before playing these.
 

3.      Flamu: Watch videos on YouTube made by Flamu. Just go to YouTube and search ‘Flamu’ + ‘name of ship you are trying to learn’. He comprehensively goes through the strengths and weaknesses of every ship.

Hope this helps. Enjoy the game.

Praise the Lord!!

Sorry, just having some fun and had to say it.

Thankyou for taking the time to make some serious and positive comments, and yes, this is my only account for WoWs (they still haven't sorted my WoT account out yet after the transfer, its now a separate account)

As for your suggestions, I agree and have been told many times that playing multiple ships/tanks/whatever isn't the best way to get results, but, this is a game and its what I like to do. At the moment the plan is to get to T5 and decide where to go from there, I had already settled on German BB's, IJN cruisers (and CV, but I'm having trouble with manual drop, so they are on hold for now) I had nearly decided on the new Pan Asia line for DD's, but ill take another look at the American DD's as per your suggestion. I didn't dislike any of the DD's really, maybe just the pommy ones, I couldn't work out why they didn't get HE, I like HE :(

I did do a couple of randoms in my higher tier premiums, but they are mainly for operations etc, and make credits easy to get. Also for the captain training aspect.

My original post was as much as anything asking for other peoples take on the patch and changes introduced. Although there haven't been many comments made here, there have been other posts on this forum and others, in game and elsewhere, that lead me to believe that what I'm saying is still a fairly widely held view. While I can change tactics, ships, crew skills etc, I don't think it changes the fact that many people don't like the direction this is going. I made the point people get VERY frustrated getting one shot or killed by invisible opponents (even though it takes some skill on their part to do it) its still a widely hated mechanic.

Time will tell, but I think (my opinion, nothing else) that in 6-12 months we will see a "correction" , maybe not, but, as I say, in other games similar things have happened.

In regard to the other post above with a video by jingles. Thankyou. I did watch it. I do also have one of those exact same battleships, and have no trouble at all in it either, as Im very sure jingles was aware of. Take a look at the ship, by far the shortest BB, and despite its slow rudder shift quite manoeuvrable (and if you fit the rudder upgrade, it becomes more nimble than many of the CA's at that tier). Also doesn't face CV's with their torps at T2 either. So a completely irrelevant upload by him that didn't prove anything IMO.

The biggest target for torps are mid tier BB's, longer, bigger, slower to turn and highly visible no AA defence to speak of(maybe not true after t5, at T6 my new German BB, now with a 10 point captain, so some AA skills and upgrades, does make a dent in AA attacks), and routinely hunted by every DD and CV in the game, yeah OK I know its their job, but ATM its getting old.

 

Seriously, I don’t care about my win rate. If the same rules apply to BB’s and DD’s on *both* teams, how could that even affect the win rate? 

It doesn't, and I didn't say it did.  It affects THE ENJOYMENT of people trying to play BB's, and to a lesser extent cruisers. My win rate is a touch under 50% last I checked, good enough for me starting out, but its a lot easier to enjoy DD's running around stealth killing BB's with a single salvo and then racing on to get to the CV before anyone else atm than it is grinding mid tier BB's, who sit and hammer other BB's for minutes at a time to get a kill, all the while dodging torps from the air and smoke clouds that appear randomly all over the map. Again, my opinion, but seems to be shared by many.

Ill also go back and have a look at my stats page, but I suspect BB's take way more games to level up than the others. Ill get back to you on that.

 

PS. I care a little about my win rate, I don't lose deliberately, but more about how well I play.

 

Thankyou all,

 

Happy hunting and feel free to message me any time I'm on, I haven't done any division play yet, and my current clan has been deserted over xmas

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2 hours ago, Macras said:

Again, my opinion, but seems to be shared by many.

Yes, there are many idiots with convoluted opinions because of their lack of understanding of the game and refusal to take the advice offered. Low tier dds are only effective because most low tier players are new or simply bad. Heres my own stat for some perspective:
 

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.9f586fb28f68e265de91696ae64e6c98.png

 IJN BB line is the first line I grinded and so I naturally did badly in it. I even made whiny forum posts about clevelands burning my bbs from the safety of island cover and dd torps doing so much damage at that time. But I took advice and improved as a player. And you can clearly see my other t4 BB has much better stats as its a more recent line I grinded after I learnt to deal with dds. So stop whining and listen to the advice of people who actually know how to deal with it. Don't be another generic newbie with Dunning-Kruger

Edited by Adm_Kunkka

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20 hours ago, Macras said:

It doesn't, and I didn't say it did.  It affects THE ENJOYMENT of people trying to play BB's, and to a lesser extent cruisers. My win rate is a touch under 50% last I checked, good enough for me starting out, but its a lot easier to enjoy DD's running around stealth killing BB's with a single salvo and then racing on to get to the CV before anyone else atm than it is grinding mid tier BB's, who sit and hammer other BB's for minutes at a time to get a kill, all the while dodging torps from the air and smoke clouds that appear randomly all over the map. Again, my opinion, but seems to be shared by many.

Golden rule of playing battleships: don't sail in a straight line at the same speed. That's just begging for the enemy DDs to torp you. 

As long as you don't overextend and stay with your team, instead of going on your own adventures to god knows where by yourself, you should be relatively safe from torps. That doesn't mean you should sit behind the team at full HP, you just have to position yourself such that your own dds can spot the enemy dds/torps before it reaches you. If you spot torps coming from your flank, ping the map and tell others that there is a dd there, and start changing your course regularly instead of sitting there and whining about invisible dds killing you. Once you learn how to position yourself correctly in a battleship, you will see how easy it actually is to throw off a DD's set of torps, be it from your juking or your team spotting the torps for you. 

Like @Adm_Kunkka said, you should try playing DDs, not really past t4 as usually the teams are pretty bad, but around t6 - t10. You will find an increase in the amount of skilled BB players that frequently change their course or angle into a cap to minimize damage taken from torps. German battleships are also able to equip hydro at high tiers, which adds on to the difficulty of hitting them. Usually, people just drop torps for area denial, to lock the enemy into a position and hold the cap, not expecting to actually hit any of those torps dropped. 

If you think it is not enjoyable to play BBs when it is easy for DDs to blap you with torps, think about it, isn't the whole point of DDs to scout, cap, and use those torpedoes to counter BBs? It is actually possible for battleships to devstrike just about anything (DDs included, since you can get full penetrations with your AP shells which deal about 4k per shell at high tiers, imagine eating those in a DD and just melting instantly) if you have good aim and good RNG. The only times you get deleted in a BB is when you foolishly show your broadside to another BB, or eat a full set of torps. Aside from these torps, DDs and CAs really have no actual weapon to outright delete BBs, while BBs can literally blap anything in sight (i repeat, if you have good aim and RNG). 

Adding on to the CV issue, there is really not much you can do at low tiers, but when you move up, just stay close to your cruisers as their defensive AA can spread out drops which makes it so much easier to dodge. Learn which cruisers have good AA, and which ones have trash AA, and stick close to the ones with good AA. ( Examples being USN cruisers) 

My point is, once you move up to the middle or higher tiers, your opinion on this should change drastically. There's a reason why many unicums and CCs complain that BBs are easier to play compared to other types of ships, simply because once you know how to position and aim, most of the time you will be getting decent damage numbers on the enemy.

 

 

Edited by Exiaa

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Golden rule of playing battleships: don't sail in a straight line at the same speed. That's just begging for the enemy DDs to torp you

would you PLEASE GIVE THIS A ****ING BREAK!!!!

I heard that already. and I watched the videos OK, no I don't, but IT STILL ISNT FUN!!!! ( I do end up badly positioned often, trying to be too agresive, but learning, give me a break for not being a total idiot though) The VOLUME of torpedoes, the number of DD's and CV's at low tiers is disproportionate. You all keep saying the number of DD's drop off in higher tiers, fair enough, that doesn't help low tier players. the Jingles video linked above boasts he dodged 30 torps (while he did nothing else to assist his team, which lost)  I would at times be happy if I only faced 30 torpedoes! I think he underestimated the number of DD's and torps. At t4-5 Im facing 3-5 DD's and 1-2 CV's as well (no not every game I know) that adds up to way too many torps, and a lot of smoke to boot.

I encourage you to actually try playing dds past t4

I've only got as far as T5, but doing OK in DD's despite having my poorest crew skills etc. My point is THERE IS NO REASON FOR THIS IMBALANCE AT LOW TIERS. It can fixed, with a few minor tweaks and changes. No big deal. My point at the beginning was a LOT of players get discouraged and leave at this stage because they see they unfairness of the game at this level and believe it will continue. Do you want the player base to continue to increase??. Or are you happy to have new blood that quit after the low tiers because they are easy kills for you?. I gave my experience trying to bring other players into this game, only to see them give up and leave, id rather not waste my time if that is the way it is always going to be.

 

IJN BB line is the first line I grinded and so I naturally did badly in it. I even made whiny forum posts about clevelands burning my bbs from the safety of island cover and dd torps doing so much damage at that time. But I took advice and improved as a player. And you can clearly see my other t4 BB has much better stats as its a more recent line I grinded after I learnt to deal with dds. So stop whining and listen to the advice of people who actually know how to deal with it. Don't be another generic newbie with Dunning-Kruger

Thankyou for your insult. Please don't try and use Dunning-Kruger  in an argument until you at least learn correct grammar.

So, as an inexperienced player, with poor captain skills and experience you did BADLY!!!!!!!!!!! My point!!!!

There is no reason for it to be this way in WG games, other games manage to introduce new players in a much fairer method than WG. Its my opinion that WG don't consider low tiers (up to T5) important and neglect to even try and keep it balanced. How about maybe some of you more experienced give some ideas and suggestions on how this could be achieved without ruining the game experience?

I do consider it important and think WE WOULD HAVE A LOT MORE PLAYERS if WG would pay attention to this area of the game. Again, I state this from my experience trying to introduce other players, not just based on my own opinion.

 

just about anything (DDs included, since you can get full penetrations with your AP shells which deal about 4k per shell at high tiers, imagine eating those in a DD and just melting instantly) if you have good aim and good RNG

Disagree, just from my experience so far, my AP shells from all my BB guns over pen, doesn't seem to matter where or what angle I hit them at. I get an average 200? (don't quote me) each hit. On rare occasions I do get a high roll, but they are the exception not the norm.Swapping to HE gives a little more reliable damage, but it takes time to swap. I don't have all those fancy crew skills remember.

As long as you don't overextend and stay with your team, instead of going on your own adventures to god knows where by yourself, you should be relatively safe from torps. That doesn't mean you should sit behind the team at full HP, you just have to position yourself such that your own dds can spot the enemy dds/torps before it reaches you.

You want to know how man replays I can show of whole teams of BB's sitting back at full health doing nothing else? Often ending the game with very little damage and blaming everyone else. This is maybe a by product of what I am talking about.

 

Adding on to the CV issue, there is really not much you can do at low tiers, but when you move up, just stay close to your cruisers as their defensive AA can spread out drops which makes it so much easier to dodge

Not Fun Jimmy :) Your expecting new players to know and do all this while they are supposed to be learning to aim, angle, position, co ordinate with their team?. Admittedly t5 is probably about the time this should happen (if not already), but  I don't think many new players are learning much getting deleted by waves of torps in the first few minutes of each game.

 

You  all still keep referring back to high tier and experience. Please note, as I said previously, I was asking people opinions on the changes and balance, but also specifically mentioned LOW TIERS and INEXPERIENCED PLAYERS. I'm not too worried about T10,  I know that the top end of the game will look after itself, and long term players will very quickly start to scream if they think their precious top tier games are under threat. Low tier players don't seem to get much of a say, they just get trolled if they say things aren't working.

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59 minutes ago, Macras said:

THERE IS NO REASON FOR THIS IMBALANCE AT LOW TIERS.

THERE IS NO GODDAMN IMBALANCE.  except kamikaze ofc
I would love to meet you in a match where I play BB and you play dd, and I demonstrate just how much imbalance there is in here. You keep talking about your experience and stuff while forgetting completely that you are talking to people with thousands of games under their belt.

 

1 hour ago, Macras said:

Thankyou for your insult. Please don't try and use Dunning-Kruger  in an argument until you at least learn correct grammar.

So, as an inexperienced player, with poor captain skills and experience you did BADLY!!!!!!!!!!! My point!!!!

Oh my bad, my grammar was incorrect so my whole argument is invalid, and now I must exile myself to Tibet. And you're taking the wrong message from me doing badly as an inexperienced player. I did badly because I sucked at the game like you do now, and I do much better because of experience and skill. It doesn't matter how Balanced the game gets- a new player will always do shit because they are NEW, unless ofc you're super talented.

 

1 hour ago, Macras said:

Disagree, just from my experience so far,

Are you really going to keep arguing against established facts using your "experience"? BB ap absolutely wrecks dds if you manage several hits or get a lucky pen. A single normal pen from bb ap on a dd should be 3-4k damage at low tiers, where dds usally have 12-14k hp iirc. Thats a third of their hp with one shell hit. Several overpens also does similar damage. There's no damn point arguing against this using your "experience"- its a known mechanic and every bb player worth their salt shoots at every spotted dd to shave huge chunks of hp with one hit

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1 hour ago, Macras said:

would you PLEASE GIVE THIS A ****ING BREAK!!!!

I took the time to explain pretty nicely how you can mitigate torp damage in your BB, and the first thing you say is this. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone on forums is out to troll you, so at least treat others with a little bit of respect. 

1 hour ago, Macras said:

You all keep saying the number of DD's drop off in higher tiers, fair enough, that doesn't help low tier players

I keep referencing to high tiers, because most DDs at low tiers rely on the white line as a form of assist to them. By using even the simplest techniques such as turning left or right or slowing down, you can throw off their aim all the time. Keep playing with your wasd keys, instead of staying zoomed into your scope. I suggest you use that long reload time to move around, and scan for any potential torpedoes (last spotted DD near you) before zooming back in. 

@Adm_Kunkka already commented on the BBAP thing so im not going to say anything about that.

1 hour ago, Macras said:

You want to know how man replays I can show of whole teams of BB's sitting back at full health doing nothing else? Often ending the game with very little damage and blaming everyone else. This is maybe a by product of what I am talking about.

Like i said, aside from torpedoes, DDs don't have proper weapons to fight other ships that are not DDs. You talk about imbalance of getting hit by torpedoes, but you forget you can do the very same to DDs at close range and broadsiding cruisers. cruisers can angle to avoid citadels, just like you are able to point your bow into the torpedoes and hope you only eat at most 2. If you get too close, start backing off and request for support. it doesn't always work, but you really don't lose anything asking for help. 

 

1 hour ago, Macras said:

Not Fun Jimmy :) Your expecting new players to know and do all this while they are supposed to be learning to aim, angle, position, co ordinate with their team?. Admittedly t5 is probably about the time this should happen (if not already), but  I don't think many new players are learning much getting deleted by waves of torps in the first few minutes of each game.

Actually, if you are deleted by torps a few minutes into the game then something is seriously wrong with your play style. Are you straying away from the team too often? Or are you just charging straight in and getting focus fired? An experienced CV player who is clubbing at t4-5 should know not to drop a BB that is within AA range of his team, and an inexperienced CV will fly his planes straight into the AA bubbles protecting you, hopefully losing most planes on the way. It really all depends on two words: MAP AWARENESS. Enlarge your minimap so you can see clearly what exactly is coming at you. You will also get a general idea of where the team is going, and be able to follow your cruisers and destroyers, even if you lag behind a little. I can say with utmost confidence that a semi competent CV will never drop a battleship right at the start unless you are alone or rushing in without support. There you have it, your argument that you have to learn to aim, angle, position and co ordinate is invalid as map awareness and staying close to your team already counts as positioning. Expecting players to know that they should stick close to the team for AA support? Yea, sounds like positioning to me. Its nothing extra at all, just part of the normal learning process.

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