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StrawberryFlowers

Operations, Rewards and Future Incentive

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Preface: This general topic is for the discussion of the problems with Operations Mode reward distribution.

As many of us are probably aware, Operations Mode has certain limitations. Chief among them is the lack of incentive to play a particular scenario after completing it with five stars and acquiring the full rewards possible. While Operations rotate weekly, one thing remains constant: the rewards do not reset. In practical terms, this means there is no incentive for a player to replay an Operation once it has been completed with a five-star rating.

Wargaming has a marvelous thing going with Operations, as it adds some much-needed depth to otherwise monotonous random or cooperative gameplay. The fundamental design of Operations is excellent as it offers players a more fulfilling mode of play that is otherwise not present in regular game modes (Domination, Standard, Epicentre...). Even the somewhat despised Newport Defense scenario is entertaining and interesting because it challenges players and forces them to create solutions for problems that they are likely to never have come across in regular modes. In short, Operations is Wargaming's version of what made the Battlestations games the classics they have become.

So how should Wargaming approach the obvious problem with Operations? How should Wargaming offer players an incentive to return to an Operations scenario once they've completed it with a full five-stars when it comes back up on rotation?
First of all, we need to identify what makes Operations such a profitable way to play: For a relatively easy four-star rating, players receive a blank 10-point commander for ships of a particular nation. This is the reward that most players are shooting for, and so making this reward available every rotation will keep players coming back to Operations. If Waergaming wants players to replay Operations each rotation, they need to make this reward available every rotation.

And here we run into a game balance issue: Being able to obtain a free ten-point commander as easily as Operations makes them is just asking for profiteering abuse. Commanders of this rank shouldn't be quite so easy to obtain. Wargaming's solution is to make them a once-only reward, but this may not be the best solution. The chief incentive to replay Operations for most players comes from the promise of a free ten-point commander. It may take them a dozen tries, but that is still quicker than grinding out a ten-point commander the long way.

The way to "fix" Operations and give players the incentive to replay scenarios, as I see it, is to make ten-point commanders available on a monthly basis. Consider the following:
1) Every month, a player may complete a total of four Operations (one per week) from a selection chosen by Wargaming [at the rate new Operations are being released, it won't be long before Wargaming has seven or eight permanent scenarios available to them]
2) If a player completes these four Operations each with at least a four-star rating, then that player is rewarded with their choice of ten-point commander as dictated by the Operations that Wargaming has put on rotation for the month.
3) In practice, this means that players can only receive a single ten-point commander every month, but it alows them more freedom to decide which commander they wish to be rewarded with.
4) Every month, the rotation changes and so do the ten-point commanders available. This gives players the incentive to return to and replay Operations regularly for a useful reward in exchange for solid performance while also preventing the community from being saturated by mid- to high-level commanders without needing to actually put in some effort and manually grind those levels.

Thoughts? Does anybody else find Operations in its current state to lack replay incentive, and if so, how would you go about giving Operations this incentive?

 

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2 minutes ago, keskparane said:

For me the incentive is it's kinda like co-op but with better rewards. I see no need to change them.

The problem arises from the rewards being non-resetting. Once you obtain it, that's it. You'll never again obtain them, not even after rotation. Thus, once you've completed every Operation with a five-star rating, what's the point of playing again? Add to that the thirty-minute wait time and you can't even palm it off as being replayable for the sheer joy of good teamwork. You may as well jump in a cooperative queue for all the difference they have.

This is why Wargaming would do well to change how their rotation works, so as to make the objectively best reward re-obtainable but without making it too easy to obtain.
 

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[LBAS]
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If you are chasing profit and xp, play PvP.

PvP will always give you more xp and credits, as long as you play well.

I'm with Keskparane on this one, Operations are for players who enjoy PvE and are looking for a little extra return.

It's not there for repeated play, unless you are using this mode for grinding.

WG lessen the rewards after you have completed them, as they would prefer you return to Randoms to make more xp and credits.

Think of it as a mode to play to break the monotony of Randoms......

 

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Operation mode quite fun. For me, it doesn't matter if u have repeat & get 5 star everytime.

As for reward & credit, I don't see any issues about it..

 

Besides, to enjoy the victories and fret the losses; is the biggest trill in the game.

Edited by ArchKongou

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Oh, don't get me wrong, I enjoy replaying Operations for the challenge it brings. (refer to OP and likening it to the challenges included with the Batllestations games). But there is little replay value. Other than the scenario about to be released, I've finished them all with five stars, and there is no credit or experience incentive to continue.

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49 minutes ago, StrawberryFlowers said:

The problem arises from the rewards being non-resetting. Once you obtain it, that's it. You'll never again obtain them, not even after rotation. Thus, once you've completed every Operation with a five-star rating, what's the point of playing again? Add to that the thirty-minute wait time and you can't even palm it off as being replayable for the sheer joy of good teamwork. You may as well jump in a cooperative queue for all the difference they have.

This is why Wargaming would do well to change how their rotation works, so as to make the objectively best reward re-obtainable but without making it too easy to obtain.
 

Like I said.

Quote

 it's kinda like co-op but with better rewards.

even after the initial bonuses. I wouldn't want to play co-op because the returns aren't worth it.

Edited by keskparane

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I don't see a problem with the non-resetting star rewards.

It gives the lower players a chance to get something nice for completing the missions and keeps the Unicorns from farming excellent rewards.

I don't want players like Drakkon (sorry, but only good player I remember off the top of my head on SEA) getting brand new 10 pointers to put on new ship lines or ships without effort. At least make them work for it. No big reward farming.  Nope, not wanting any part of it. 

 

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I agree there is no need to reset the star rewards, they are too valuable for WG to hand out on a regular basis, if they were to reset I'm sure they would be less valuable items. Definitely wouldn't get commanders or premium time.

The operations mode if played well is much better than the standard PVE for the normal battle rewards, and can even be comparable to PvP rewards when done well. Operations tends to be more consistent than PvP, I've found it's a good place to use flags/camo as I have fewer battles with wasted use of those resources.

Today I did about 200k damage in Warspite and let me tell you the rewards were quite substantial, even more so after flags etc.

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Why not introduce a nerfed container for every star pass 3 that you earn during a mission ?

The container could earn you some free exp like 200 , 20k credits or 300 more cpt exp or one or two of a normal flags

Nothing major ( unlike first time clear ) , but definitely doable for those who hate to play PvP master race

Edited by legionary2099

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Scenarios has and will always be an escape for me from randoms (and shitty internet :Smile-_tongue:). I don't really care if I can't get another 10pt captain/premium time/flags, its something that won't make me bored of this game from playing randoms over and over again

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As I mentioned in the OP, my solution would be to reduce the number of commanders obtainable to one per month. This makes them no less valuable than they are as a once-only reward while also providing a reason for players to take on Operations again after completing them. Moreover, it requires players to perform well in four separate scenarios during four consecutive weeks. This prevents it from being extremely lucrative, yet maintains a more tangible incentive than just player satisfaction. Player satisfaction is important, but it is intangible. Think of it like a mini ranked season which rotates every month.



 

 

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Although I am in agreement with the others say no don't...

If such a change was to come about, make it harder rather than easier - e.g. for every clean sweep of 5 star operations after the initial completion, then you get an additional reward.  Every 4 star or lower run resets the counter.  or something along those lines.

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Perhaps then, instead of making ten-point commanders a recurring reward, it could just be a more efficient way of netting signals, consumables and camouflages than by gathering crates. But similar to crates, it could be restricted to a once-per-day reward. Thus there's a solid reason to participate in Operations after achieving the main reward (commanders) while still making Random battles a valuable mode.

Operations should at least have some sort of resetting reward for good performance and it shouldn't be available solely as an alternative to Random battles. With the state of the game being so thoroughly anti-cruiser at the moment, it at least offers cruisers a way to be useful and makes destroyers/battleships significantly less potent. That alone is a good enough reason to play Operations after completing it with full marks.

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On 11/27/2017 at 4:21 PM, LtDan_IceCream said:

If you are chasing profit and xp, play PvP.

PvP will always give you more xp and credits, as long as you play well.

I'm with Keskparane on this one, Operations are for players who enjoy PvE and are looking for a little extra return.

It's not there for repeated play, unless you are using this mode for grinding.

WG lessen the rewards after you have completed them, as they would prefer you return to Randoms to make more xp and credits.

Think of it as a mode to play to break the monotony of Randoms......

for fun no care other things

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I can understand people wanting something when they get five stars, but I don't see an issue with the mode.   I have been getting God credits and very good XP from it to grind t6 ships. 

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I think one time 10 point commanders are fine and they can use the newer operations coming out to fill in for Pan Asia, Royal Navy and the Commonwealth eventually.

You could make the 5 star reward to 24 hours premium time repeatable for FTP players, one of those extra a week surely isn't a deal breaker.

Replace the 4 star rewards as an extra container.  Nabs you 10 oil for you clan, or an extra shot at something.  Just have a small amount of flags/camo/consumables for the first 3 starrs, not as much as a first time rewards, but repeatable.

Personally I am just happy with the increased XP over co-op.  The scripted missions can feel semi immerse, they are a nice break from pvp and surely they can only get better with some semi historical based battles.  Be interesting to try and take on a US carrier fleet arm for example if they ever get around tot that.  Kinda nice to grind some stock hulls without wasting free XP too.

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7 hours ago, Bitrot said:

I think one time 10 point commanders are fine and they can use the newer operations coming out to fill in for Pan Asia, Royal Navy and the Commonwealth eventually.

You could make the 5 star reward to 24 hours premium time repeatable for FTP players, one of those extra a week surely isn't a deal breaker.

Replace the 4 star rewards as an extra container.  Nabs you 10 oil for you clan, or an extra shot at something.  Just have a small amount of flags/camo/consumables for the first 3 starrs, not as much as a first time rewards, but repeatable.

Personally I am just happy with the increased XP over co-op.  The scripted missions can feel semi immerse, they are a nice break from pvp and surely they can only get better with some semi historical based battles.  Be interesting to try and take on a US carrier fleet arm for example if they ever get around tot that.  Kinda nice to grind some stock hulls without wasting free XP too.

Yeah, that feels about right. What is the credit/experience profit like in Operations for most players? I generally do very well in Operations and I never make a profit of more than 50,000 credits, nor do I seem to get much experience (averaging around 700 per Op)

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I am pretty happy with the current rewards for Scenarios, though I certainly wouldn't mind getting more.

I can get pretty good coin in Scenarios, personally I find myself making just as much profit, if not more, in a 5-star Scenario than in an average Tier 8 game. And 5-stars are pretty easy to get if your team knows what they are doing.

2 hours ago, StrawberryFlowers said:

Yeah, that feels about right. What is the credit/experience profit like in Operations for most players? I generally do very well in Operations and I never make a profit of more than 50,000 credits, nor do I seem to get much experience (averaging around 700 per Op)

What is your setup? Are you using Premium account or ships?

Going off the top of my head, with a Premium account and Premium ship, but no Premium consumables and flags, I can get about 200k credits or more, assuming I get 5-stars and live until the end.

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4 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

I am pretty happy with the current rewards for Scenarios, though I certainly wouldn't mind getting more.

I can get pretty good coin in Scenarios, personally I find myself making just as much profit, if not more, in a 5-star Scenario than in an average Tier 8 game. And 5-stars are pretty easy to get if your team knows what they are doing.

What is your setup? Are you using Premium account or ships?

Going off the top of my head, with a Premium account and Premium ship, but no Premium consumables and flags, I can get about 200k credits or more, assuming I get 5-stars and live until the end.

I'm exclusively a FtP player. Other than my Ognevoi, I don't have anything higher than tier six. Best ship is the Konig, averaging around 70K profit per game.

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Scenarios can be good for farming free commander xp points if you have any 19pt captains and any suitable premium ships. Currently, the Graf Spee is my only prem t6 ship, but the new scenario is t7 and I have 3 ship/captain combinations that I'll be able to use with it - that's 3 doses of 1st win bonuses. If it becomes fairly easy to get 5 stars, with an average base xp of 1000-1500, I may even start using some of the more powerful modifiers (dragon flags, etc) as an easy alternative to grinding in the high tiers.

I don't think there's any need to increase the rewards, but it will be better when there are a few more different scenarios as it does became a bit repetitive after a while.

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