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LargerNeptune3

Request for information

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This is a request for information about what, if anything, will be done in response to the requests for a change to the Clan v Clan "prime times"

I am making the request in light of the following:

1. Some time ago, nearly three hundred of us completed a survey - the survey by Spotter is here - and more than half of us chose the earliest possible time.

2. We understood from this that Wargaming would consider our requests, and respond to us within a reasonable time. That time has now passed.

3. Since Spotter's survey closed, we have had much speculation, rumour, angst and worse, amongst players of all varieties; we have seen clans in other regions also unhappy; but as far as I can see, we have had no response or further information from Wargaming about changing the "prime times", and we have had no changes.

4. I don't know how else to go about getting information, and giving Wargaming a fair chance to respond, other than to start a new topic specifically aimed at doing this.

5. Spotter's survey expressly did NOT ask about which days were preferred, but in this Forum, and other places (eg other regional WOWS Forums, reddit), many have expressed the view that Fridays should be included, in addition to or as replacement for a day in the middle of the working week.

6. In addition, many have asked for the extension of the current prime time windows, as a compromise, and do not understand why this was not done on launch - or why at least the lower Leagues have not had their "prime times" extended

I appreciate if Wargaming chooses not to make changes, that is their prerogative, and they are not obliged to explain the detailed reasons to me.

Equally, I and others would appreciate some clarity and reliable information about this, so we can help plan our activities. Changing or not changing? If changing, when will we hear what the new times will be?

Thanks to anyone who reads this, and is able to pass it on to the appropriate responsible person within Wargaming and/or point me to the relevant info that I have missed.

Edited by LargerNeptune3
added paragraphs

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Just as an inclusive (which you may want to add in, Neptune) which im going to put in caps, and in large formatting:



Extend The Prime Time Back By 2 Hours, Dont Move It, Extend It. Problem Solved. ~tc1259 
 

That way the "Prime Time" is still open for the Asian community (which is the "majority" that WG is speaking of, lets not beat around the bush there), but also opening it up for us Australasians. Done. All problems fixed. No more complaints. 

I mean, really, copying WoT clan wars and Global Map is the overall best solution, but if you insist on fixed dates and times, this would be the best option.

 

Hard to read excessive capitalisation, content modified, user warned
~tc1259

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@Cyanide7662 WG's response to your request might justifiably be  

Quote

There Is No Number That Could Even Comprehend How Little We Care About Your Request. A Quantum Supercomputer, Calculating For A Thousand Years Could Not Even Approach The Amount Of ****s We Give About Your Request!

:Smile_trollface:

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6 hours ago, Cyanide7662 said:

Just as an inclusive (which you may want to add in, Neptune) which im going to put in caps, and in large formatting:



Extend The Prime Time Back By 2 Hours, Dont Move It, Extend It. Problem Solved. ~tc1259 

That way the "Prime Time" is still open for the Asian community (which is the "majority" that WG is speaking of, lets not beat around the bush there), but also opening it up for us Australasians. Done. All problems fixed. No more complaints. 

I mean, really, copying WoT clan wars and Global Map is the overall best solution, but if you insist on fixed dates and times, this would be the best option.

Sounds like a good solution to me! That way if we like we can keep on sailing late into the night. It also would work for thew Asian continent to start earlier if they want to.

 

Modified quote

~tc1259

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6 hours ago, Cyanide7662 said:

Extend The Prime Time Back By 2 Hours, Dont Move It, Extend It. Problem Solved. ~tc1259 


It's really not rocket science.

 

Modified Quote

~tc1259

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4 hours ago, keskparane said:

@Cyanide7662 WG's response to your request might justifiably be  

:Smile_trollface:

WG's response might be anything, but so far it is nothing. This thread is about getting information, so please don't bother posting a reply unless you have some information to contribute. Thanks

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19 minutes ago, LargerNeptune3 said:

WG's response might be anything, but so far it is nothing. This thread is about getting information, so please don't bother posting a reply unless you have some information to contribute. Thanks

Ok, and without any sarcasm or anything:

I often find WG's responses to be 2-4 weeks later than they advertise on the forum. I am not happy about it (and some other matters) and my response has been to close my wallet until WG get their act together. I advise players to do the same until WG stop making promises they don't keep. I believe that will best get their attention.

 

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23 minutes ago, keskparane said:

Ok, and without any sarcasm or anything:

I often find WG's responses to be 2-4 weeks later than they advertise on the forum. I am not happy about it (and some other matters) and my response has been to close my wallet until WG get their act together. I advise players to do the same until WG stop making promises they don't keep. I believe that will best get their attention.

 

Thanks - others have suggested the wallet closing, and I think that's what's been happening in more than one clan

But I haven't used the forum before so didn't know about the 2-4 weeks' delay. Well, that's where we are now ... so on your timetable, it's time for WG to get their act together - and I can tell you I will be 'ken happy to see the last of this CB issue, no matter how it's resolved

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It isn't any wonder why it is hard for Australians to play WoW, and frankly i would be surprised if they do anything at all.  The reality is they know the prime times for this server and its not about what the players want its what is viable to making a profit vs costs of running it.  To put it simply all businesses don't really care about individuals as such just what makes the most bang for buck.   hence Australia has always been the dumping ground for consumerism ever since i can remember.  Now don't get me wrong in that I am attacking Wargaming I am not just stating the facts about Australia and New Zealand.

I bought the first Fiat Punto Turbo Diesel to enter the country and i had seen that in Europe they had the USB plug for the Car Radio so i asked if we could have it and pay more for it.  They said no its not available in Australia, I later found out they basically had all these standard car radios that they couldn't sell in the Europe market so they dumped them here.   Even back in the 90's with Mobile phones  ... when i went to the Beijing they had mobiles from the same maker that was not available in the Australian market - i asked about the model that was in Australia and they said it was a year old.

Nothing new here just get used to it.

Edited by Burnt_Out_Koalas

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I'd actually say increase by 3 hours and add Friday... I'd even go so far as to suggest a slot of times that represent all Asia, so an 8 hour window...

 

Even with a 2 hour widening that's still 11pm for NZ players and I don't want us to forget our brothers and sisters in everything. 2 hours would put them in the same situation we are in now...

 

WoT stronghold skirmishes start at 6pm AEDT, and that's with many different competing game modes, why not give it a go?

 

While we're at it, increase the clan sizes, the concern about 'but not enough clans' is a crock of bull's faeces...

 

Increasing clan numbers will allow more casual players to join clans and give them an opportunity to play CB.

 

With the current time and clan size we constantly get 10-12ish for CB, so players have to rotate out (because let's be honest with the horrible setup, we don't care about our rank).

 

It'd be really nice to have enough access to actually have a shot at getting to higher leagues...

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I had a clan member say to me yesterday "it would be nice to be to go up a league." I said to him "never mind a league, I'd just like to go up a division within a league!"

Now, my clan members are not "noobs", it basically comes down to the fact that we just don't have the opportunity to run Clan Battles on a regular basis. We get Saturday night only, and that's it. We're just not able to get the time under our belts to refine or skills, which puts us at a disadvantage compared to other clans which can run every night, and this all comes down to the timings imposed on us.

We all took part In the survey a few weeks ago, but was wondering myself over the last weekend what was happening with that information and why haven't we heard back yet? There's been plenty of time.

Personally, given WG's history, I've resigned myself to the fact that we shouldn't be expecting any change until season 2 of CBs.

Edited by Admiral_Sakene

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8 hours ago, Burnt_Out_Koalas said:

It isn't any wonder why it is hard for Australians to play WoW, and frankly i would be surprised if they do anything at all.  The reality is they know the prime times for this server and its not about what the players want its what is viable to making a profit vs costs of running it.  To put it simply all businesses don't really care about individuals as such just what makes the most bang for buck.   hence Australia has always been the dumping ground for consumerism ever since i can remember.  Now don't get me wrong in that I am attacking Wargaming I am not just stating the facts about Australia and New Zealand.

I bought the first Fiat Punto Turbo Diesel to enter the country and i had seen that in Europe they had the USB plug for the Car Radio so i asked if we could have it and pay more for it.  They said no its not available in Australia, I later found out they basically had all these standard car radios that they couldn't sell in the Europe market so they dumped them here.   Even back in the 90's with Mobile phones  ... when i went to the Beijing they had mobiles from the same maker that was not available in the Australian market - i asked about the model that was in Australia and they said it was a year old.

Nothing new here just get used to it.

Ah yes, well I understand a business needing to make a profit.

To be clear, I don't want WG not to be profitable, and agree it's their choice whether to respond to this issue at all. You can read that in the OP.

But equally, I am a person, like others who play the game, and it is not working for us.

Saying and doing nothing will achieve no improvement. And I have enjoyed the game, so don't want to stop. But it's getting to that point now, just because WG have not done anything at all and have not communicated anything at all.

I am very surprised that a software production business which seeks global reach can behave like this. I mean say nothing at all for so long about a user problem which is clearly widespread and affects a substantial number of people. Forget about the people it doesn't affect, there are clearly hundreds of people in this region who want a change. Now literally every software or SaaS supplier with whom I have worked would have had their comms team on this some time ago. (Background: I mainly work in the global online solutions market, and have years of experience working with global teams of Devs working on mission critical apps, and their Support teams maintaining the apps, with customers like big health, financial, and defence organisations. Compared to these suppliers, WG is making a very simple product, and has a very small addressable market - yes, even though they are marketing to video game users, that market is tiny compared to the markets for health and financial).

Okay, so WG are smaller and have much less resources, but still, the tardiness addressing real customer issues is very difficult to understand. And not helping WG at all.

That is why I started this thread - to provide a channel for WG to have a fair chance to respond, having been made aware of customer issues and likely outcomes if they do nothing to address the issue

If their solution is to tell us "we will make an announcement on X", fine. That would at least be some reliable information. But they seem unwilling or unable to even do that. It is VERY hard to understand, coming as I do from a POV that's interested in customer satisfaction and retention 

 

On your point about Australia being a small market and getting rubbish dumped here, it definitely used to be a big thing. But I don't think that's really relevant here at all, given that all I am asking for in this thread is information, and nothing more. My OP specifically included the option for WG to say they are doing nothing. Because I recognise it as a material possibility.

But fwiw, imho with the shrinking of the world thanks to tech/comms, that olde skoole supplier way of thinking it is becoming less and less relevant everywhere around the world. Suppliers who approach the world that way are like dinosaurs watching a comet coming straight at them. Samsung, VW, Ford, and many others have learned to their cost how easily consumers all around the world can learn relevant info and respond by making appropriate purchasing decisions, and these businesses, which make WG look like the street vendor selling a cheap but tasty dish, have either changed the way they deal with consumers, or gone away to that place where all businesses go eventually - into liquidation. How's the supplier who sold you your Fiat going?

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2 hours ago, Admiral_Sakene said:

.......There's been plenty of time.

Regardless of how much time they have had my biggest issue here is

Quote

Rest assured that we will start working on the survey result, feedback, and real CVC data on October 23, and no later than October 30-31 we will be able to present our solution for this case.

If they say we will answer by a date then they should. Even if that answer is to say it's taking longer than expected and we will update again in another 2 weeks.

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2 hours ago, keskparane said:

Regardless of how much time they have had my biggest issue here is

If they say we will answer by a date then they should. Even if that answer is to say it's taking longer than expected and we will update again in another 2 weeks.

 

Absolutely agree with this. That info you quoted is what made me post this as a new topic/thread.

The reason I and others are having bad player experiences with this, now, is not because the CvC prime time window is not good for me and many others. That was the initial problem we were addressing, but now that has been overwhelmed by the lack of anything at all coming from WG, and that is exacerbated because we were told "Rest assured that we will start working on the survey result, feedback, and real CVC data on October 23, and no later than October 30-31 we will be able to present our solution for this case".

My and others' expectations were set by this statement. Now we are being disappointed by those expectations not being met. As you say, they should do what they say they will do, or, if they can't do what they said, then we should have our expectations reset to the new reality. As it is, we are being told nothing, which makes the issue unclear and the communication going on here in other threads essentially ineffective.

But, for any business, clear and effective communication with customers is a basic customer acquisition/retention strategy, and failure to communicate clearly inevitably leads to loss of existing and potential customers

Which is why I just don't understand why this is happening. The game is produced to pretty high standards, but the communications we are receiving on this has been woefully inadequate and not up to that standard (which we expect from WG). Can't understand why, because it is MUCH harder to make a good quality game than to communicate clearly and effectively with your customers ... clearly I am missing something

Edited by LargerNeptune3

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I think they have a couple of issues they have to take into consideration.  They want as many clans at once online to ensure the most even matchmaking possible.  They don't want to make the CB windows too long, because they know some clans will try and play the whole available window, and they want to minimise the chance of burnout of players.  The vast majority of clans are in the GMT+8 time zone. 

Given this there is no way they are going to move the whole window forward, since that would affect most clans negatively.  They could extend the window, but that dilutes the pool and could affect the quality of CB's.  I would suggest the best option for them would be just to add one extra hour to the start, that would alleviate some of the discontent among the later time zone clans while minimising the other potential problems. Having said that, I think there is every chance they won't change it.

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27 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

I think they have a couple of issues they have to take into consideration.  They want as many clans at once online to ensure the most even matchmaking possible.  They don't want to make the CB windows too long, because they know some clans will try and play the whole available window, and they want to minimise the chance of burnout of players.  The vast majority of clans are in the GMT+8 time zone. 

Given this there is no way they are going to move the whole window forward, since that would affect most clans negatively.  They could extend the window, but that dilutes the pool and could affect the quality of CB's.  I would suggest the best option for them would be just to add one extra hour to the start, that would alleviate some of the discontent among the later time zone clans while minimising the other potential problems. Having said that, I think there is every chance they won't change it.

Thanks, what you say is not surprising to me, but I am not asking for anything specific or which would be bad for WG's majority of players, I am just asking for information - which is overdue based on the expectations set by WG reps.

But I don't want to hear any more speculation - imho there is already too much speculation in this forum in other threads, and it's getting nobody anywhere except annoyed, or worse (excluding the few puerile trolls here, who have been having a little fun with us). For example, I strongly doubt that it would "dilute" the pool if 2-3 hours were added at the start - if, as you say, the majority players are in the +8 time zone, they would be able to play at the usual time they now play, and extending the hours would just add more clans into the queues. Now your opinion is probably more informed than mine, but both of us are just speculating, and neither of us are advancing the issue at all.

That is why I started this thread ... to get reliable information straight from the horse's mouth.

It may not work, and I recognise no change may happen and there may be no further material info available for ANZ players about this issue.

That is Wargaming's prerogative, as I said in my OP. 

But at least I will have tried to get this info, and in doing so, I will have given Wargaming a fair and reasonable last chance to keep me, and more than a few others, pumping currency through the payment processing gateways of this supposedly "FTP" game 

Edited by LargerNeptune3

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28 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

I think they have a couple of issues they have to take into consideration.  They want as many clans at once online to ensure the most even matchmaking possible.  They don't want to make the CB windows too long, because they know some clans will try and play the whole available window, and they want to minimise the chance of burnout of players.  The vast majority of clans are in the GMT+8 time zone. 

Given this there is no way they are going to move the whole window forward, since that would affect most clans negatively.  They could extend the window, but that dilutes the pool and could affect the quality of CB's.  I would suggest the best option for them would be just to add one extra hour to the start, that would alleviate some of the discontent among the later time zone clans while minimising the other potential problems. Having said that, I think there is every chance they won't change it.

 

Lol no...

ATM clans and players aren't queueing because they can't.

If lucky, ANZ clans can pull off 1-2 matches on sat night and not with our best foot forward...

 

If they expanded the time by 3 hours, my clan would probably play for 4, instead of 1 and I know many others with the same issue.

 

People try to play in the window, they'll still play just as often in that window if you expand it... I don't suddenly magically lose the ability to play later on Saturday nights if you expand the time frame...

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7 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

 

Lol no...

ATM clans and players aren't queueing because they can't.

If lucky, ANZ clans can pull off 1-2 matches on sat night and not with our best foot forward...

 

If they expanded the time by 3 hours, my clan would probably play for 4, instead of 1 and I know many others with the same issue.

 

People try to play in the window, they'll still play just as often in that window if you expand it... I don't suddenly magically lose the ability to play later on Saturday nights if you expand the time frame...

What S4pper said is 100% true ... I know many clans which now play 0-1 night/week, but who would play 3-4nights/week if the time was expanded ... so there would be MORE clans in the queues, not less, if the prime time was extended by a couple of hours ... but aaarghh h ... I just speculated myself sorry ... like I said to others, Neptune, this thread is for information, not speculation, so shut up now about this, and let Wargaming provide information

Edited by LargerNeptune3

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15 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

Lol no...

ATM clans and players aren't queueing because they can't.

If lucky, ANZ clans can pull off 1-2 matches on sat night and not with our best foot forward...

 

If they expanded the time by 3 hours, my clan would probably play for 4, instead of 1 and I know many others with the same issue.

 

People try to play in the window, they'll still play just as often in that window if you expand it... I don't suddenly magically lose the ability to play later on Saturday nights if you expand the time frame...

Of course there would be more clans overall queuing if they extended the time.  The issue is how many clans are queuing at any one moment, not the total number over the window.  There aren't that many Aus/NZ clans when compared to the vast majority of clans in the GMT+8 window, so if you extended the window three hours earlier, you'd have a much smaller pool during this period to match make from, which would lead to seriously unbalanced battles that no one would enjoy. One of the keys to good CB's is getting as many battles as possible between teams of similar skill levels.

Now I personally think they should add an hour to the start and see how that goes, but we don't have access to all the metrics on numbers of clans playing and how the match maker is fairing, so this may or may not be viable.  I'm confident that WG don't want to upset their Aus/NZ players, but they also want to keep as many players happy as possible, and if changing the times had a negative effect on CB's for the majority just to appease the minority this clearly isn't a sensible decision to make.  I would guess they're monitoring the metrics and will consider changing the times if they think it will be an overall improvement.

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5 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

Of course there would be more clans overall queuing if they extended the time.  The issue is how many clans are queuing at any one moment, not the total number over the window.  There aren't that many Aus/NZ clans when compared to the vast majority of clans in the GMT+8 window, so if you extended the window three hours earlier, you'd have a much smaller pool during this period to match make from, which would lead to seriously unbalanced battles that no one would enjoy. One of the keys to good CB's is getting as many battles as possible between teams of similar skill levels.

Now I personally think they should add an hour to the start and see how that goes, but we don't have access to all the metrics on numbers of clans playing and how the match maker is fairing, so this may or may not be viable.  I'm confident that WG don't want to upset their Aus/NZ players, but they also want to keep as many players happy as possible, and if changing the times had a negative effect on CB's for the majority just to appease the minority this clearly isn't a sensible decision to make.  I would guess they're monitoring the metrics and will consider changing the times if they think it will be an overall improvement.

That makes general sense, but I can think of another side to that coin which you haven't mentioned. There are always two sides, at least, to any discussion.

I want to hear just one side in this thread: Wargaming's side.

And I still haven't heard it.

So, thanks for trying to explain.

But, though I don't doubt that you honestly believe what you wrote, and you are clearly better informed than me, your opinion as expressed here is speculation/guesswork (you actually say "I would guess" in your post). Your post tells me no concrete answer, and provides no information which helps me plan activities with clan mates.

So it's not really helpful to me or the others affected. 

That is why I am not interested in any more speculation or guesswork in this thread, just clear and reliable information from Wargaming, thanks

I should also mention:

1. I have managed to gather som information from this forum and directly from other clans, and I know there are many who are happy to play each other, in a small pool, and wait for games, if that's what happens.

2. WG are currently at risk of seriously failing to meet their goal of not upsetting their ANZ players. This thread's OP is a request for information to reduce that upset - please WG, don't leave it to your unpaid Beta Testers to do your customer communications, without at least giving them some hard information to pass on.

Edited by LargerNeptune3

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Hi Guys,

 

I've bumped this thread up the food chain with those that could possibly have any/all of the information we are all looking for around the CB times.  I've also asked for an admin/GM response, as I know you are getting sick of the unofficial responses and rumours generated.

Hang in there for a bit longer (soontm)....

 

cheers,

~dmw

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I know this might be considered a silly solution, & please by all means shoot it down if you deem it necessary.... But would it alleviate the problem if we had our own time frame, our own window for Australia/New Zealand (& anyone else effected by the timezones) exclusively ? 

WG should be able to see who is from where, & set up a separate time for us, at the earlier period, that finishes just before the +8 timezone they like?

 

I think I saw someone mention league, what if we had a "ladder" like the AFL, where the Aussie/Kiwi clans  (& others) climb the ladder,  we can even have a "grand final" if we wanted...

 

If we couldn't have the Stalingrad as a prize, then maybe we could have a Tone, or a Shinano as a "local" prize?

 

It could be from 8pm AEDT (10pm NZ), & it could run to 11pm AEDT (1am NZ)

 

It would make us feel included, it shouldn't disturb the setup too much, they could even include the Friday night for us, & others (like west Australians) could still do the late night shift if they wanted to....

 

My input, don't be rude if you don't like the idea....

 

Ordrazz

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6 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

Of course there would be more clans overall queuing if they extended the time.  The issue is how many clans are queuing at any one moment, not the total number over the window.  There aren't that many Aus/NZ clans when compared to the vast majority of clans in the GMT+8 window, so if you extended the window three hours earlier, you'd have a much smaller pool during this period to match make from, which would lead to seriously unbalanced battles that no one would enjoy. One of the keys to good CB's is getting as many battles as possible between teams of similar skill levels.

Now I personally think they should add an hour to the start and see how that goes, but we don't have access to all the metrics on numbers of clans playing and how the match maker is fairing, so this may or may not be viable.  I'm confident that WG don't want to upset their Aus/NZ players, but they also want to keep as many players happy as possible, and if changing the times had a negative effect on CB's for the majority just to appease the minority this clearly isn't a sensible decision to make.  I would guess they're monitoring the metrics and will consider changing the times if they think it will be an overall improvement.

 

Tbh I care more about being involved than whether I vs the same clan a few times or get imbalanced games, at least we'd get to play the flipping mode and we'd be able to learn from being served...

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13 hours ago, dead_man_walking said:

Hi Guys,

 

I've bumped this thread up the food chain with those that could possibly have any/all of the information we are all looking for around the CB times.  I've also asked for an admin/GM response, as I know you are getting sick of the unofficial responses and rumours generated.

Hang in there for a bit longer (soontm)....

 

cheers,

~dmw

Thanks very much @dead_man_walking

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