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Saipan Poll

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(x-posted from Reddit and the NA Forums)

 

Hello,

 

This is a poll attempting to gauge just how much of the community wants to nerf this ship; whether it's simply a loud minority or if the ship really is hated by most of the playerbase.  Please answer once and truthfully.  I am gathering data and do not want to have to throw out a poll because some guy spammed it with his alt accounts.  

 

Side note: I do not endorse any of the options in the poll.  I have not taken part in the poll.  I have attempted to include as many options as possible.  

 

Link is here: https://goo.gl/forms/UBB61JOXTQoCVhEd2

 

I will release the results in about 24 hours from now on this same topic.  

 

PS: If any of you frequent Facebook or Twitter, can one of you post it there?  I don't know where to post it in order to get the most amount of attention.

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Now where those post that WG claim Saipan is balance.

 

Can anyone post it in here....
 

P/s: Honestly, the only people who complain about Saipan are CV drivers.

Edited by ArchKongou

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19 minutes ago, ArchKongou said:

Now where those post that WG claim Saipan is balance.

 

Can anyone post it in here....
 

P/s: Honestly, the only people who complain about Saipan are CV drivers.

Really , BB will also complain about the 3x2 doom stacks that come at them with no way to dodge, Saipan torpedo manual aim is very very easy to master , and can create deadly trap pattern that no one will escape

 

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instead of nerfing saipan, LETS BUFF IT and MOVE IT TO T8

- T10 plane

- 58 hangar capacity buff

- fighter of saipan can bring smaller HE bomb but reduce its speed by 10 knot, this option can be changed inside battle by double press same key

- saipan bomber can equip Torpedo or AP bomb, it can be changed in battle by double press same key

- 3 fighter, 4 BOMBER, nyahahaahaa (this count as torp bomber, so air supremacy skill wont effect bomber)

 

did you know what is make saipan OP? because it can rekt badluck T5 BB or cruiser,

 

nerf is only making the game more boring, why dont offer something more awesome?

 

___________________________________________

 

 

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1 hour ago, ArchKongou said:


 

P/s: Honestly, the only people who complain about Saipan are CV drivers.

Given that the mechanic which makes Saipan brokenly strong with no real counters (the ability to disengage ft without losing planes) only effects enemy CVs, is this really a surprise to you ? Are a lot of dd players effected by this ? 

Not until they get perma spotted because enemy Saipan has established air supremacy, no. And even then they don't get how it ended up like this.

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1 hour ago, legionary2099 said:

Really , BB will also complain about the 3x2 doom stacks that come at them with no way to dodge, Saipan torpedo manual aim is very very easy to master , and can create deadly trap pattern that no one will escape

 

Not sure rather that BB just sail yolo;  or  just plain nuts while move straight line.

The only thing makes Saipan very annoying especially to CV player is their fighter. When Saipan player put 3-0-1 configure u can see the mass plane massacre been done.

But still their is a good Hiryu (2-2-2 setup) & Ranger (1-1-1 setup) players which I met can really know how to handle it. Most of them really know how to enemy plane to friendly cruiser or BB while patiently wait for right time to strike their enemy.

If u think that annoying, wait till u facing Kaga (a good Kaga player). Take note Kaga have very large amount of plane in their stock. What make them super  annoying if u play any sea botes, meets  Kaga with 2-2-1 configure, and try ur best to run away from their large torps sqadron plane (2 torps squadron = 12 planes!!) & land u with torps (those drop pattern are really hard to get away) & no way to dodge it. GGWP & have a nice day on ur way to port menu.

 

Here my honest view (or sort kind of experience) since I'm play every class of ships. I play Saipan & since I also facing Saipan while using any tier 7 CV, so its fine to me to tell her weakness & my tactics when facing enemy Saipan as well.  Warning TLDR:

Spoiler

 

1/ Despite their have tier 9 plane, Saipan only have 48 planes with her & with small amount of plane in each squadron; except for Dive Bomber Squadron. Saipan only have 4 squadron. Small amount of plane is her true weakness & most Sapain player will consider to make them plane to survive as much as they can.

Those CV player who often to met Saipan will use as many advantage in the map (especially large map) to lure their fighter away from battlefield. At beginning of the game, if u facing Saipan, just provide intel to ur team & ask them to move in group (Rules 101: Don't ever hesitate to ask for help despite u playing CV or whatever class were, which not many people know about it).

Kite the Saipan plane as much as possible to friendly ships while annoy them by "forcing" them to attack first. Mostly what I do is I kite their fighter with my fighter squadron or dive bomber lure, lure and lock them with my friendly cruiser who hide in smoke or near the island. Don't be greedy to take alone ur enemy. The less ur enemy in the game & the easier ur job to handle enemy Saipan. 

Other thing u can do is by spot them early of the game which make Saipan player curious do defend her ships and draw her plane to def.

 

2/  Saipan torps squadron only have 3 planes (2 squadron makes it 6 planes). 

The plane hit points only 2k only  & cruise speed only 158 knots .It just s slight advantages compare to CV which the same tier with her. Tier 6 - 7 cruiser should have no problem  to deal with them with tier defensive AA & tier tier plane apart.Certain DD's & BB's with good AA also have no problem to handle it.

Dodging torpedo drops, shouldn't be difficult if u know WASD hack (unless u playing BBs). Nobody dumb enough to sail solo straight line while ignore minimap to see planes coming. Remember, by default - Saipan torpedo speed only 34 knots (Hiryu torps - 35 knots; Ranger torps - 34 knots; Kaga torps - 48 knots). 

 

3/ I've said it before, but I'll mention it again.

There no OP ships in the game. The only thing that makes the ships become OP is the player itself; who understand the true strength of the ships they use and use it to the fullest.

If u have OP ships but drive it like a ****nut, there no point u have those ships.

 

 

54 minutes ago, Pervis117 said:

Given that the mechanic which makes Saipan brokenly strong with no real counters (the ability to disengage ft without losing planes) only effects enemy CVs, is this really a surprise to you ? Are a lot of dd players effected by this ? 

Not until they get perma spotted because enemy Saipan has established air supremacy, no. And even then they don't get how it ended up like this.

Then don't yolo. Its a simple thing to do unless u have no brainer. U have a plane above ur ships and spot u,  retreat if u need and go with ur team mate

You play DD's , if u see matchmaker have CV in the game, the first thing in ur mind is you don't go alone

Unless u brave enough to be a bait & draw enemy plane to u while ur team contest other caps. I hate to say this but I dare to tell you that I'm excel when play DD's & it doesn't matter what tier is it, since I'm not picky & I've play every tier.......... except tier 1.

 

........................................

In the end, CV drivers are all about CV drivers.  They don't give a can's kick for balance.  They hate  Saipan because it ruins their fun, but it's OK for them to ruin surface ship drivers fun.  

And some goes to certain ships. The cycle will continues with other ships as well.

OP this, OP that; yet it's fine for them to ruin other ship drivers fun; because they can't even handle of feel defeated & yet not improve themself.

Edited by ArchKongou

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1 hour ago, legionary2099 said:

Really , BB will also complain about the 3x2 doom stacks that come at them with no way to dodge, Saipan torpedo manual aim is very very easy to master , and can create deadly trap pattern that no one will escape

 

 

As far as I remember, Saipan is not effective against most of the BBs, unless those BBs are T6 or T5. (Or a Nagato). Even an AA spec Colorado will wipe out half of your torpedo bombers before you get to drop. Yes, I have done that countless times. It would be pointless to talk about Gneisenau and other higher tier BBs.

 

Saipan is effective against enemy CV and DDs for most part (and long IJN CAs).

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You think Saipan is OP? Grind Hiryu/Ranger as fast as you can and go to tier 8 where things are more balanced. 

 

And when you get tonnes of T10 AA. :D

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Super Tester
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> Do you own a Saipan?

< Yes

 

...

 

> What would you do if the Saipan was nerfed?

< I would go and find some popcorn to watch the rioting.

 

WG should really add an extra line to policies that explains how premium ships would be subjected to balance changes no matter how much money you have paid.

 

@_xXx_ROX_o7o7o7_xXx_, bro, what's up with this profile picture?

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There is a simple way to balance the Saipan. Make it lose a fighter when it exit strafes. Easy.

1 hour ago, Pervis117 said:

Given that the mechanic which makes Saipan brokenly strong with no real counters (the ability to disengage ft without losing planes) only effects enemy CVs, is this really a surprise to you ? Are a lot of dd players effected by this ? 

Not until they get perma spotted because enemy Saipan has established air supremacy, no. And even then they don't get how it ended up like this.

Agreed.

Unfortunately what usually happens is after the team's CV loses the air war, the enemy Saipan then proceeds to ravage the team with torpedo bombers and the poor CV gets blamed for being a noob. The team gets beaten by an OP ship and they don't even realise it. Genius really.

39 minutes ago, ArchKongou said:

Mostly what I do is I kite their fighter with my fighter squadron or dive bomber lure, lure and lock them with my friendly cruiser who hide in smoke or near the island.

I am sorry, but that only works against noob Saipan players. No Saipan player, heck no CV player worth his salt is going to let his fighters sit there and dogfight over enemy cruiser AA. If your strategy revolves around the enemy being bad, sad to say that is not a strategy.

Admittedly, tricking and locking Saipan's fighters over friendly was the way to deal with the Saipan. Keyword was. After exit strafe implementation, there is really no reason for a Saipan to let the fighters dogfight.

47 minutes ago, ArchKongou said:

There no OP ships in the game. The only thing that makes the ships become OP is the player itself; who understand the true strength of the ships they use and use it to the fullest.

If u have OP ships but drive it like a ****nut, there no point u have those ships.

Again this nonsense. I have said it before and I will say it again.  Overpowered =/= unbeatable or unsinkable. Going by your logic, having a ship armed with OHKO nuclear missiles in game is not OP. Different player skill levels should not be used as a balancing factor. For balance purposes, it should be assumed that players are equally skilled.

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5 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

 Different player skill levels should not be used as a balancing factor. For balance purposes, it should be assumed that players are equally skilled.

I'm sorry but I'm fail to digest ur reply.

What we want to balance here? The ships? The skill? The matchmaker?

 

..................................

But yeah, not everybody jump the same bandwagon with us. So, if u feel I wrong, feel free to ignore it, have it & go parade.

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there should a balance where each fighter in the game is similarly powerful with slight characteristic difference

and not something blatant like

 

US fighter OVERPOWER Japan fighter by scale of 7 : 3 which translate as

 

japan planes absolutely will lose in equal number of planes even with decent AA support

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I'm still waiting for a miracle.

 

Although they answered my question during Q&A here in Asia forum, that they can only buff it if they find the premium ship's performance is underwhelming but to nerf a premium is never an option to them & it is to be avoided.

But very recently as we witnessed, the smoke changes affected the Perth, Belfast, & MK thus gave the owners the option for a full refund in doubloon. Even if they just received it from Supercontainer. 

 

So yeah, Wait & See.

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10 hours ago, ArchKongou said:

Then don't yolo. Its a simple thing to do unless u have no brainer. U have a plane above ur ships and spot u,  retreat if u need and go with ur team mate

You play DD's , if u see matchmaker have CV in the game, the first thing in ur mind is you don't go alone

Unless u brave enough to be a bait & draw enemy plane to u while ur team contest other caps. I hate to say this but I dare to tell you that I'm excel when play DD's & it doesn't matter what tier is it, since I'm not picky & I've play every tier.......... except tier 1.

 

........................................

In the end, CV drivers are all about CV drivers.  They don't give a can's kick for balance.  They hate  Saipan because it ruins their fun, but it's OK for them to ruin surface ship drivers fun.  

And some goes to certain ships. The cycle will continues with other ships as well.

OP this, OP that; yet it's fine for them to ruin other ship drivers fun; because they can't even handle of feel defeated & yet not improve themself.


*sigh*

While I'm sure your valuable and groundbreaking insight into dd play of "don't go yolo when there's cvs" is certainly well received by anyone fortunate enough to read it and will change our game forever, for the better, my point had nothing to do the behavior of dds and everything to do with air superiority engagement mechanics.

Since you've played all of 10 games in Random with tech tree cvs, and the remaining 44 on the Saipan, permit me to explain what its like for us Hiryu and Ranger peasants to contest air superiority with Saipan fighters. When Saipan ft can indefinitely disengage without losing planes whereas every other CV loses an FT to do so, for any halfway competent player, this killing enemy ft really easy. And once they've killed the enemy ft, they're free to keep enemy ships, particularly stealth dependent ships like dds spotted all the time. In these scenarios, your mind blowing game hack of "dun go alone" might not exactly be the miracle solution you've built it up to be because an enemy cv constalty spotting your torps makes it pretty hard to land any, enemy dds are free to outflank your allied ships because you don't have any ft to spot them with and generally speaking if all the ships stick together, the team gets crossfired into extinction.

Now I appreciate that this isn't much of a problem when facing 36% win rate Saipan players such as yourself, but in the hands of a good cv player, the effect on the game is disproportionate. 

Now if you feel any of the things that I said are incorrect, I invite you to play tier 7 tech tree cv games in random, face some Saipans and establish air superiority. Seeing as you've gotten 0 % win rate on Ryujo and no random games in T7 cvs, maybe you can use this as an opportunity to teach us your ways.

 

Edited by Pervis117

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after read further, here is my conclusion :

 

well SAIPAN IS NOT OP, its only get 48 plane hangar

but the Plane OP, T9 plane vs Kongo, vs Konig, vs Omaha

 

WG have 2 choice

a) nerf Saipan and refund Doubloon

 

b) do nothing, let everyone rage

 

c) buff saipan more, but move it to T8.... who will complaint?

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

Different player skill levels should not be used as a balancing factor. For balance purposes, it should be assumed that players are equally skilled.

 

In an ideal world, yes.....

But the reality is, people are NOT equally skilled, & it that precise factor which determines the performance of any "OP" ship in the match...

 

If what you said " Overpowered =/= unbeatable or unsinkable. ", then if I take my Saipan out, I will win & do well no matter what, & my skill (or lack of it) will have no bearing on the outcome, which makes no sense.

 

the very reason I DONT take my Saipan out is because I AM CRAP at it for the time being,  not because "its an OP ship & I don't want to hurt peoples feelings"...

A ship is only as good as its captain.

 

Now I'll just sit back & wait for the nerf club to come in, take over & personally attack me & derail the thread.

 

Ordrazz

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Lol guys not this debate again. 

 

Forget OP or not, Saipan is most of the time just unpleasant to play against. 

Edited by LordTyphoon

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2 hours ago, Ordrazz said:

 

In an ideal world, yes.....

But the reality is, people are NOT equally skilled, & it that precise factor which determines the performance of any "OP" ship in the match...

 

If what you said " Overpowered =/= unbeatable or unsinkable. ", then if I take my Saipan out, I will win & do well no matter what, & my skill (or lack of it) will have no bearing on the outcome, which makes no sense.

 

I didn't say skill levels have no bearing on match outcomes. I said skill levels should have not be taken into account when talking about ship balance. Get what I mean?

People say Saipan noobs can be beaten, but that is because they are noobs, not because the Saipan is balanced. 

It is like saying a gun is equal to a knife just because a noob with a gun can be killed by a commando with a knife. See how ridiculous that sounds? What happens if it is another commando wielding the gun, who is likely to win now?

Let's say I make clones of you, and put one of you in a Hiryu, Ranger and Saipan. Does Saipan Ordrazz constantly beat Hiryu Ordrazz and Ranger Ordrazz? That is what we should be discussing, instead of saying that Saipan is balanced just because Saipan Ordrazz lost to Ranger Aerroon - which is what some have been saying including yourself.

 

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1 hour ago, Thyaliad said:

I didn't say skill levels have no bearing on match outcomes. I said skill levels should have not be taken into account when talking about ship balance. Get what I mean?

People say Saipan noobs can be beaten, but that is because they are noobs, not because the Saipan is balanced. 

It is like saying a gun is equal to a knife just because a noob with a gun can be killed by a commando with a knife. See how ridiculous that sounds? What happens if it is another commando wielding the gun, who is likely to win now?

Let's say I make clones of you, and put one of you in a Hiryu, Ranger and Saipan. Does Saipan Ordrazz constantly beat Hiryu Ordrazz and Ranger Ordrazz? That is what we should be discussing, instead of saying that Saipan is balanced just because Saipan Ordrazz lost to Ranger Aerroon - which is what some have been saying including yourself.

 

He has been told over and over again what OP means and he still keeps repeating the same garbage.

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15 hours ago, Ordrazz said:

 

In an ideal world, yes.....

But the reality is, people are NOT equally skilled, & it that precise factor which determines the performance of any "OP" ship in the match...

 

If what you said " Overpowered =/= unbeatable or unsinkable. ", then if I take my Saipan out, I will win & do well no matter what, & my skill (or lack of it) will have no bearing on the outcome, which makes no sense.

 

the very reason I DONT take my Saipan out is because I AM CRAP at it for the time being,  not because "its an OP ship & I don't want to hurt peoples feelings"...

A ship is only as good as its captain.

 

Now I'll just sit back & wait for the nerf club to come in, take over & personally attack me & derail the thread.

 

Ordrazz

 

Looks like you haven't learnt squat from your last lesson eh. So here come dat "Nerf club" to personally attack you (boi you are good at predictions)
Listen here buddy, it doesn't matter HOW broken a ship is, someone like you will never think its strong enough because you will still lose to any half decent player. That's not an argument against the ship being OP, thats a reminder that you are among the worst skilled players in the entire wows community.
I don't have a grudge against bad players, maybe they are just not born with gaming skills but find it enjoyable. So I have no business with them. But you buddy, you are an [content removed] who has deluded himself into thinking that the game revolves around him. That balance should be done around YOUR skill level to make the game easier for you. Sadly though, delusions are just delusions after all
P.S Its not just saipan, you are CRAP at every single ship in the whole game
so by your logic all of them are weak and need buffs
Time to buff Orion I guess

 

Insults. Post edited, user warned.

~amade

Edited by amade

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17 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

The ships obviously.

 

17 hours ago, ArchKongou said:

If u point that part, I'm sorry. 

I've disagree with u. 

Um.... so @ArchKongou are you saying you want to balance the mm and players skill? You think it's ok to have an op ship so long as they only get paired against each other in mm, and even then only if the players are of equal skill? I hope you don't mind waiting an hour in the queue. (you could come watch the parade while you're waiting)

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