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      World of Warships Forum Rules   06/08/2017

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Rina_Pon

My Unpleasant Life as an IJN DD Captain

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I'm appallingly bad at playing Japanese destroyers. Yet the gameplay, the challenge of it, keeps me coming back for more punishment. Lately I've been trying very hard to buff my DD skills, in the following order:

  1. Learn to not die.
  2. Learn to cap, scout, smoke, defend, and generally be useful for your team (and not die).
  3. Learn to sink ships (and not die).
  4. Learn to win 1-on-1 DD fights (and not die).

Steps 1 and 2 I've cleared, but step 3 ... the business of connecting torps with unfriendly ships... I'm having all sorts of problems with. In a BB or CA, map awareness is all about the predicting the flow of the battle and knowing where to go. Which I'm OK with. With DDs it's much more about making short timescale predictions of what an enemy ship will do. Guessing right, left, straight, speed up or slow down. And most often than not I guess wrong.

As for risk assessment, that idea of judging how close it's safe to get before putting fish into the water... Let's just say I'm considering of making a compilation video: "A Hundred Different Ways to Die in a DD". And just when I think there can't possibly be any more surprises ... no. 101 and 102 make their appearance.

I was doing so badly with Hatsuharu and Fubiki that I repurchased Isokaze and headed to low tiers for retraining. This turned out to be a surprisingly good idea. Isokaze is of course a powerful DD tier-for-tier, and I found that having a little more breathing room to explore different tactics without being insta-deleted actually improved my gameplay at higher tiers too.

Next step: winning 1v1 DD fights. Another thing I'm really bad at, partly because I panic and behave predictably, and partly because I consistently fail to predict my opponents moves. Playing Isokaze, I realized a lot of it comes down to confidence. I even won an Isokaze-vs-Isokaze fight on Straights the other day, the first time ever I've sunk an enemy same-tier DD single-handed. It wasn't pretty or pleasant, but I got the job done.

I really like the IJN destroyers, especially Hatsuharu. Nimble and stealthly, ideal for contesting caps or scouting, with (compared to Mutsuki) a decent set of guns. IJN DDs have a steep learning curve, and "do not suffer fools gladly", but are all the more rewarding for it.

 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

I'm appallingly bad at playing Japanese destroyers. Yet the gameplay, the challenge of it, keeps me coming back for more punishment. Lately I've been trying very hard to buff my DD skills, in the following order:

  1. Learn to not die.
  2. Learn to cap, scout, smoke, defend, and generally be useful for your team (and not die).
  3. Learn to sink ships (and not die).
  4. Learn to win 1-on-1 DD fights (and not die).

Steps 1 and 2 I've cleared, but step 3 ... the business of connecting torps with unfriendly ships... I'm having all sorts of problems with. In a BB or CA, map awareness is all about the predicting the flow of the battle and knowing where to go. Which I'm OK with. With DDs it's much more about making short timescale predictions of what an enemy ship will do. Guessing right, left, straight, speed up or slow down. And most often than not I guess wrong.

As for risk assessment, that idea of judging how close it's safe to get before putting fish into the water... Let's just say I'm considering of making a compilation video: "A Hundred Different Ways to Die in a DD". And just when I think there can't possibly be any more surprises ... no. 101 and 102 make their appearance.

I was doing so badly with Hatsuharu and Fubiki that I repurchased Isokaze and headed to low tiers for retraining. This turned out to be a surprisingly good idea. Isokaze is of course a powerful DD tier-for-tier, and I found that having a little more breathing room to explore different tactics without being insta-deleted actually improved my gameplay at higher tiers too.

Next step: winning 1v1 DD fights. Another thing I'm really bad at, partly because I panic and behave predictably, and partly because I consistently fail to predict my opponents moves. Playing Isokaze, I realized a lot of it comes down to confidence. I even won an Isokaze-vs-Isokaze fight on Straights the other day, the first time ever I've sunk an enemy same-tier DD single-handed. It wasn't pretty or pleasant, but I got the job done.

I really like the IJN destroyers, especially Hatsuharu. Nimble and stealthly, ideal for contesting caps or scouting, with (compared to Mutsuki) a decent set of guns. IJN DDs have a steep learning curve, and "do not suffer fools gladly", but are all the more rewarding for it.

 

 

 

 

 

Indeed it is hard to win the 1v1 fight in IJN dd,especially T10,shimakaze almost has no chance to previal Gearing,Z52 and khabarovsk( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°),just try to avoid 1v1 dd fight if you're not akizuki nor confident in torp skill

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1 hour ago, icy_phoenix said:

I feel you bro, I am stuck at Minekaze and Mutsuki for over a year now.

 

Really? You, of all players, struggling with IJN DDS? You have one of the best win rates in SEA...this line of ships must be hard to play if even you are struggling.

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13 minutes ago, LordTyphoon said:

 

Really? You, of all players, struggling with IJN DDS? You have one of the best win rates in SEA...this line of ships must be hard to play if even you are struggling.

 

How did I struggle if I had never played them? I lost my interest just by reading the stats. That's all. (I played Mutsuki for 2 games for 2.5k wtr. But did not enjoy it, was just lucky). Minekaze is a waste of time, especially when you have Kamikaze on your port.

Edited by icy_phoenix

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I'm still progressing on completing Akizuki and re-training my captain for Kagerou.

The first 3 are achievable. The last one is situational but I don't expect to win in the full-HP fight, as normally I engage them when enemy DD has lesser HP than me.

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9 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

 

How did I struggle if I had never played them? I lost my interest just by reading the stats. That's all. (I played Mutsuki for 2 games for 2.5k wtr. But did not enjoy it, was just lucky). Minekaze is a waste of time, especially when you have Kamikaze on your port.

Minekaze is my least favorite IJN DD of all the ones I've played so far. It has torps. And low detection. That's it. If you get spotted you are completely defenseless. No guns, no AA, no health, no armor, no nuffink.

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12 hours ago, Rina_Pon said:
  1. Learn to not die.
  2. Learn to cap, scout, smoke, defend, and generally be useful for your team (and not die).
  3. Learn to sink ships (and not die).
  4. Learn to win 1-on-1 DD fights (and not die).
1

I played IJN DD’s a lot when I first started World of Warships. My first 10 point captain was in my Fubuki. I still play them, but I enjoy Russian or US gunboats more these days.

 

If you want to drive IJN DD’s use their strength, which is stealth and long-range torpedos. Train your captain up, the 4 point Concealment Expert skill is a very valuable for any ship, especially IJN DD’s. Even if your torpedos go 10km, close in as far as you can without being detected. Practicing shooting torpedos from just the outside edge of detection range, which is something like 6km in many cases.

 

Regarding learn to win DD vs DD. Well, if you drive IJN DD’s, your ships are not well suited for gunfights. Unless it is forced upon you, avoid artillery duels. When contesting caps in an IJN DD, rather fire your torps into enemy smoke and avoid gunfights. Even at short range, it is hard to hit another DD (that has spotted you and is manoeuvring) with a torpedo. At long range, it’s even harder.

 

If you face another IJN DD, fair enough, you both have your little pop-guns that turn slowly and take 8 seconds to reload. But if he spots you and his team starts shooting at you, run or drop smoke. If you have to run to live, run! A dead DD doesn’t benefit you or your team.

 

If you face Russian or US gunboats (or even a German DD), your chances of winning a gunfight are slim. An average player in a Farragut can annihilate a good player in a Fubuki, it’s simply a question of your guns’ Damage Per Minute. You can practice DD short range gunfights in co-op, enemy DD’s are generally first reaching the caps. It’s essential to learn to lead your guns. Try the different modes for gun sights, see what works for you. I use dynamic. In gunfights, salvos are generally superior to single fire. And I guess you know you select HE? Don’t use IJN AP, like, ever. (May try AP when you are 2km from a British cruiser and you are waiting for your torpedos to reload.)

 

When you fire torps at ships, consider your target’s speed and direction, your torpedo’s speed and range.

 

You have the best chance to hit a big target that shows you the side, like a BB travelling from A to B. Most targets steaming away from you, you will miss. If a ship comes head-on towards you, he can dodge your torps easily, but I guess you experienced that? Often you have to keep your cool and let them come in close.

 

I generally use narrow spread, or a mixture of narrow and wide spread.

 

You may be aware that many captains of IJN DD’s disable  AA (Ctrl P), to avoid being spotted?

 

Also, as a DD captain, keep always an eye on the map. You have to plan your moves ahead.

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@Rina_Pon

To be honest, the IJN destroyer line is the last destroyer line I've gone up. It is undoubtedly the most difficult line to play well. 

 

I played every single destroyer line before IJN DDs, and understood what killed them easiest and in what situations they are most vulnerable if you caught them. If you haven't already, I strongly recommend playing the other destroyer lines first. 

Edited by LordTyphoon

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[NYANG] _AkaNo 19
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If I were to give an honest assessment, best to save your frustration and play other DD line (USN, KM)

I agree that they are the most difficult line to master as they are only useful on torpedo-ing ppl who doesn't pay attention to their surroundings

As u go up to higher tiers, players will be more aware and tend to WASD more + your torpedo detection is utter garbage (1.7km proxy torpedo spotting for both Yuugumo and Shimakaze). Unless u r in a division, at times u will just circle around the cap for 10-12 minutes by doing almost nothing. 

Ur gun traverse is a horror because it takes forever to turn, so planning ahead is a must. But if u r caught with pants down, u will most likely die.  And a CV game is your worst nightmare because they love their devastating strikes (provided they know how to drop and instantly kill the poor DD)

With the introduction of RPF, your concealment pretty much means nothing to the player who drives USN/KM DD (and provided the guy who drives them knows what they are doing) when cap contesting as they will just wait for their chance to chase you off once opportunity arises. 

I wish a good luck should you were to continue the grind. IJN DD as of now is probably the last ever line I'll touch (unless I'm grinding) 

 

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15 hours ago, Rina_Pon said:

 

  1. Learn to not die.
  2. Learn to cap, scout, smoke, defend, and generally be useful for your team (and not die).
  3. Learn to sink ships (and not die).
  4. Learn to win 1-on-1 DD fights (and not die

 

Here's my thoughts on your 4 goals and what you could do

 

1 - 

Make full use of your camo rating. Now with the removal of stealth fire, you can't rely much on your guns as you used to. They're still usable but you got to know when to use them.

 

Know thy detection range and turn them on in the minimap. Have a rough gauge of your opposing DDs' detectability and since you're at tier 6, get to know which are the radar ships and stay away from them. 

 

2 -

I find IJN DDs useful for capping especially the torpedo line. Here's how I cap. As I get near the cap, I kill my engines and drift in to the barest of minimum needed to start capping i.e. having 75% of your ship's length in the cap circle. Resist the urge to smoke or fire. If they get too close for your liking, back out. While caping with 75% of your ship in the cap corcle, keep it bow on to roughly where the enemy main fleet is. Chances of combing enemy torpedoes is better. After capping, hang close to the cap corcle for a while to help the team spot for enemies. From what I have seen so far, DDs, opposing or friendly, gets trigger and smoke happy and start smoking or firing. Have gun and smoke discipline and balls of steel. It pays off. 

 

3 - 

Exploit your camo rating. Don't just torp the forst thing that you see. Stalk it and have a feel how he moves. Than torp. If you can raise alarm to your team, click on the minimap or F3 notable targets. If you spot those RU and DE DDs, don't gun fight them. Stalk them as

long as possible.

 

4 - 

Be a d- and use your team mates as cannon fodder. Don't get too absorb in the gun fight till you end up being baited over to their side. If you feel uncomfortable or it gets too hot, disengage. 

 

 

TLDR - 

 

IJN DDs require the player to be calm and level headed at all times and always have an exit strategy. IJN DDs can make the difference between winning and loosing since they got such low detectability. Don't rush your way up to Shimakaze. 

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3 hours ago, LordTyphoon said:

I played every single destroyer line before IJN DDs, and understood what killed them easiest and in what situations they are most vulnerable if you caught them. If you haven't already, I strongly recommend playing the other destroyer lines first.

 

Very true, IJN DD line is definitely not the first DD line to play. Player needs to get the hang of concealment boundary play before they start with IJN DD. They are definitely capable, especially from T7 and up, just not that easy to play.

 

42 minutes ago, Velvet_Scarlantina said:

IJN DDs require the player to be calm and level headed at all times and always have an exit strategy. IJN DDs can make the difference between winning and loosing since they got such low detectability. Don't rush your way up to Shimakaze.

 

Pretty much this. Do not rush the grinds. Take your time and find what tactic works for you. Master your torpedo skills before you jump to higher tier. IJN DDs have very powerful torpedoes, but they depend on enemy mistakes and great predictive skill from player's part. They can be monster if played correctly. Just look at Suzy's IJN DD threads.

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if you play IJN DD and your CV teammate get anihilated before enemy CV get first, forget about being usefull, just do anything to survive

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17 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

I feel you bro, I am stuck at Minekaze and Mutsuki for over a year now.

When they rebalanced and split the lines I sold the minikaze.  Its a dud.    The Mutsucki is average but the Fubuki and Hatuharu are tolerable.  Grinding lines due to some notions of historical importance or allegiance is a sure fire way to give a person an embolism.    Play ships because they are good or fun.

 

I would much rather play any other DD line.  

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If you play other DD lines first. you will understand how to deal with them.

every line come with inherent strengh and weakness. and IJN DD line is weaker on many sector so its better to know limitation of yourself and your enemy

 

There are time to do gunfight, and there are time you must avoid gunfight

for example A USN DD would strugle to hit DD sized target past 6-7km, but If you prollonged the gunfight they would start hitting the mark

prollonged gunfight is what IJN DD worst at, and what Russian do best.

knowing basic gunfighting would allow you maintain Initiative to some degree. and not just being zoned out by enemy ending the game with full HP and being totally useless

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As Akizuki captain, the only thing I don't like is become lower tier in tier X battle and facing other tier X DD's.

I can handle the Shima, but other tier X DDs quite hard for me. 

 

But its really satisfying to kill other superior ships with my pew pew gun & lead ur team to victory despite u the lowest tier ship in the game. Smoke nerf mech doesn't effect me so much.

shot-17_05.19_20_34.58-0080.thumb.jpg.f1f73856836cf7cd8f199a0aa33bafe6.jpgshot-17_05.19_20_36.16-0655.thumb.jpg.a653622c6891ee13b3ad01456e8da086.jpg

 

Since myself play DD line, to me, the success play DDs (doesn't matter its IJN or other line) are :

1. Always ask somebody to assist you while u provide intel . Always use "Request support" & "Concentrate fire on *insert enemy ships* " radio call . Be a scout to ur team in early of the game. 

2. See ur opponent ships in matchmaker. Note urself the hips have special ability (especially radar & hydro - including their range & cd).

3. Always keep ur eye on minimap. Exploit the situation when u see the advantages.

4. Be manly & learn on how to WASD, especially when dodging shells and torps.

5. Learn how to use sixth sense - predict ur enemy movement or drop random torps. 

 

BTW, sometimes the RNG really mess up.

"No "Devastating Strike" achievement? Hmmm.. Geez RNG"

shot-17_04.28_18_34.49-0085.thumb.jpg.3837622bd12b38f97ef903b4e9dd43ea.jpg

 

But I fell sorry to the Myoko fella since she to close to me....

 

 

Edited by ArchKongou

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24 minutes ago, Harpoon01 said:

i dont think mentioning Akizuki gameplay has any relevancy to this topic

being the only Gun focus IJN DD in the game currently

 

Its one of IJN DD anyway. 

But if it dont related, well ignore it and go parade.....

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[LYNMF] ahwai82 76
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i never move past isokaze, im just hopeless when comes to play ijn dd

always do stupid things always bad in torping just really bad

dont play dont be the dead weight to everyone lol

 

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4 hours ago, ArchKongou said:

 

BTW, sometimes the RNG really mess up.

"No "Devastating Strike" achievement? Hmmm.. Geez RNG"

shot-17_04.28_18_34.49-0085.thumb.jpg.3837622bd12b38f97ef903b4e9dd43ea.jpg

 

But I fell sorry to the Myoko fella since she to close to me....

 

 

How many salvos did you throw to get that x21 cit? And was the myoko showing her sexy side? :cap_tea:

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12 hours ago, AkaNoPoi said:

at times u will just circle around the cap for 10-12 minutes by doing almost nothing.

 

That's so very familiar to me, yes. But, them's the breaks when it comes to IJN DDs. Sometimes you find a sweet opening .. most often you don't.

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IJN DD's are both hard to play well, and also very appealing for new players due to their perceived 'hide and torp' playstyle.  Combine that with DD's in general being very unforgiving to play and you have a line of ships that are very effective at killing their captains very rapidly.

They are quite a few good ships in the IJN DD lines though.  Yugumo, Shiratsuyu and Akizuki are the standouts, but Kagero and Hatsu aren't too bad either.

The key is to know the advantages of your ship and maximise them, while also being aware of what can get you killed and doing your best to avoid this.  Concealment is your biggest strength, so you need to know how to best use it.  You need to assess what ships are on the enemy team before the battle starts, taking particular note of which ships have radar and what DD's are on the enemy team.  You need to know the radar range of all cruisers and exact best case concealment of every single DD you will encounter from memory to know what sort of approaches to take into caps and other combat areas.

When the match starts, it's your job to cap - you have the best concealment, you are causing your team to fail if you ignore the caps.  However, this does not mean that you charge straight into a cap.  You need to approach in a way that gives you the best chance of escaping if spotted.  That means knowing your escape path at all times, and approaching at a shallow angle to prevent high closing speeds with enemy DD's that have worse concealment (thus negating your advantage) and then turning out to face away from the cap while you stop to cap.  This means that if spotted you can move straight out of the cap, significantly reducing your exposure to enemy fire.  You need to know where all the enemy radar ships, low concealment cruisers and DD's are at all times.  This means paying constant attention to your minimap.  Losing situational awareness is death in an IJN DD - if you get surprised it is your fault.  If the battle has just started and you don't know where they all are (especially the radar ships) then be very cautious about your cap approach.  Don't be afraid to let the enemy cap if you are on the weak flank or think that the cap is too dangerous, or if you simply don't yet have sufficient information about the enemy disposition.  You can always cap it back later, often enemy DD's will cap, think they've won that little battle, then go off to do something else leaving the cap open for you to counter cap.  Initially everyone on the enemy team will be focused on the caps, but as the game progresses capping becomes easier as people's attention will be elsewhere and their positioning is less clumped around the cap.

As for torping, the main thing is to be good at predicting likely paths of enemy ships.  Look at a ship that you are attempting to hit and see where it's likely path is on the minimap.  Often it is easy to predict where a ship wants to go.  Does the enemy ship want to angle in for protection or is their cover it wants to get behind?  Is it comfortably shooting in open water with it's attention elsewhere?  What are the usual paths that enemy ships take on this map?  Assess that, then fire your spread to accommodate for the likely path.  Never use wide spread ever, it's way too easy to avoid.  Don't be afraid to torp common paths of enemy ships if you have no targets (like channels between islands that people have to push through), you'll be amazed at how often you get hits doing this.  If an enemy DD smokes and caps, make your best guess as to his likely position and fire a spread through his smoke.

Know when to use your guns.  Some IJN DD's are actually quite good gunboats, particularly the Yugumo (and obviously the Akizuki, but I'm talking about the standard type IJN DD). Shira and Akatsuki aren't bad either.  I always spec my IJN DD's to increase their traverse - this is the weakest part of the gun system, with stock traverse they are nearly unusable.  You need to get the traverse down below at least 18s for them to be properly effective.  You should never get in a standard gun duel, you always need to be retreating and wiggling while firing.  You're quite hard to hit like this - it is massively more difficult to hit a retreating ship than a ship coming towards you.  You have good alpha and arcs and rearward focused guns, so you will do quite well in this situation.  I'm quite comfortable facing say a Fletcher in my Yugumo in a direct 1v1 gun duel.  You need to know when to fire though - if the enemy DD has the same or more backup than you do - don't fire, just run away.  If you have the numbers advantage, sail away while firing and hopefully your team can help you out.  Even better is when the DD chases you in this situation.

An ideal situation to try and get yourself into is when you can be in front of your team, approach an enemy DD that you can outspot from a shallow angle, then sail in a way to keep him spotted while not getting within your concealment range. You then hold your fire and call target on him - hopefully your team will do the rest.  This is highly effective and a good use of your most powerful advantage.

All in all, IJN DD's (some of them, at least) can be very good, but you need the right knowledge, awareness and experience to be able to get the best out of them.  They can be very satisfying to use if you get it right.

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On 10/24/2017 at 9:52 AM, Rina_Pon said:

Minekaze is my least favorite IJN DD of all the ones I've played so far. It has torps. And low detection. That's it. If you get spotted you are completely defenseless. No guns, no AA, no health, no armor, no nuffink.

The T5 IJN DD's are nowhere near as good as they used to be.  They get countered completely by CV's, and they are very common at that tier, plus they are usually uptiered, often running into radar ships.  Even the Kamikaze, which isn't sold anymore because it's OP, is a lot harder to be successful in than it used to be.  There are some very good ships in the two lines though as you move further up the tiers.

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