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drakon233

Lets talk about yamato

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Yamato, the IJN T10 BB is the first ever T10 BB ever to be released in WOWS (in beta)

her characteristics at the time was her big guns which can overmatch up to 32MM or armor, the best bow tanking ability in the game super heal, the best torpedo belt in the game and the sheer presence of her on a flank was enough to turn literally every gun torp tube at its direction 

yamato then:59e1049839fe0_spaceBByamatomemes.jpg.ba8a75ba2db9d4b466645a7c899c1b7b.jpg

 

yamato now:

59e10656c9452_ImproviseAdaptOvercome14102017013002.thumb.jpg.62699f058a33ae59364255d09cafe01e.jpg

so now I think that she's in quite a sorry state. her main attribute, the 460mm gun isn't as effective as it should be and I think that she traded too much of other assets (armor, citadel height, mobility) for the gun, which isn't very obviously effective, the overmatch effect works well on BBs that are dumb enough to bow tank and reverse but the meta has changed from that of bowtanking(OBT-early this year) to more fluid deployment of ships(flanking, using smoke cover to advance, using islands as cover to minimize damage, brute-forcing your way through a flank) as the EU/SEA server clash has show, the EU's "doomsnail" tactic, or as people would better understand it "trench warfare" was smashed to bits by the SEA's use of to "divide and conquer" and "blitzkrieg" their way past their flanks (basically France 1940 )

[content removed]

yamato to me now is somewhat a relic of the past, with newer T10 BBs being much more fit to survive and flourish in the meta, the Montana, after all its various buffs and whatnot is what I would say the best BB overall in the sense that it can do the roles of a BB, BCs, and CAs extremely well, the GK can solo operate and hold off entire flanks with the armor, hydro and duel gun caliber selections that also give it flex room for what you want to do with it. the conqueror... actually i don't even want to open that can of worms

59e10a881eb70_DoesHebitepowercreep.thumb.jpg.c5678d293c9c8ff1808f1bdd9323b4be.jpg

anyway i'll be talking a bit about the firepower, armor, and role of the ship and our current meta in a bit more detail below and give an idea of why it's powercreeped/not fun in

firepower

59e106fd70a0f_PeterParkerReadingaBook14102017013314.thumb.jpg.4876abc942b9d5bd99de777597d442c4.jpg

yamato has 460MM guns, with 2.1 sigma, these are arguably the best large caliber guns in the game, the AP shells deal the most damage of all guns in game and the HE is no slouch either, they should, in theory, be the best-performing guns in the game, and they are very good guns, but they have some issues

first is the fact that they are mounted on turrets that needs a swimming pool worth's WD40, this means that unlike the other 3 T10 BBs the Yamato cant quickly switch targets, which is critical when killing CA/CLs and DDs and if it wants to disengage or move positions the turrets will not be able to keep up during the reposition, which normally isn't so much an issue since this ship was designed to be a mid/long range gun platform, but the meta is changing(more on this in the "meta" part below) and Yamato isn't keeping up, literally and figuratively

second, Yamato guns are overhyped. whenever anyone talk about the Yamato's guns the first thing that comes to mind is "overmatch", yes Yamato can overmatch 32mm BB bows, and that's great and all, but the other T10 BBs can do around the same damage per salvo by APing the upper structure or in the case the conq, just HE everything for 10k damage, so why do we still have overmatch when the only thing that you can still get regular citadels through the bow is... well yourself? every other BB from T8-10 has either submerged citadels, turtleback armor or  50mm bows, with the SOLE exception being Yamato...... really WG?

she does have one saving grace somewhat  in the sense that the 32MM overmatch is still useful in dealing with CAs with troll armor like Zao, H-IV and hindy since the deck and (for H-IV) midsection that bounces off many shells from mid-long range gets overmatched anyways, so it does reasonably well as a cruiser killer, but just as a rather specialized one

armor

59e108b22064b_DailyStruggle14102017013956.thumb.jpg.4a561cec98ebf5af2d126f812bb2d967.jpg

the Yamato suffers in this department, a lot, she has three glaring weakness

first is the outer shell of the ship, the outer shell gets shitted on by literally every CA/CL that it can meet in its matchmaking bracket, cruisers with 203 deals 4k a salvo 155/52MM does more even faster and considering this ship should be played as a stationary gun platform with horrendous mobility, she will not survive or escape HE spam without team support

2nd is the raised citadel, she has literally the ONLY raised citadel that doesn't have turtleneck at the tier, or even at T8-10, and honestly, i don't see why, especially since her original main source of food at the tier. Montanas were (IMHO unreasonably) buffed to have underwater citadels, not to mention that her historical design didnt include above water citadels either

finally is the weird frontal citadel armor, it's octangular in shape and can be citadel even when angled at a steep angle....

 

meh, im tired, i'll finnish this tomorrow

Jordan Peele Sweating 14102017013553.jpg

 

Inappropriate content (swastika). Post edited, user warned.

~amade

Edited by amade

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Before you go any further with the wall of text , ill leave my piece of rant : Conqueror conquer them all. Nerf that and Yamato get it place.

Anyway very good summary on the most POI ship on our server and the one every weebos fly to on their first XXX lel

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I see no other ships camp as much as Tomatos. Don't like the turret traverse then use some rudder to speed things up. And I'm not at all sorry if you burn while overmatching me. So the Tamato isn't invincible... whoop de.

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I kid you not a lot of players still think she is the best battleship in the game and she doesn't need any changes because she is already overpowered with just that one ability.


Bigger guns actually works like a double edge sword. Like you said she's specialize in someway dealing with certain cruisers but at the same time overpens are more common than other BBs.
That overhyped "best sigma rating" in the game doesn't help either. I find Montana to be much more accurate with shots and she has more guns for each salvos.

The ship itself doesn't have anything dynamic about it. Slow turret traverse, Huge risk when executing the turn which lead to players playing her passively at long range.
Try to play her aggressively and you'll be rewarded with concentrated fire, kited to death and lastly most embarrassing way, Citadels combo at close range by Cruisers/Battleships.

Maybe historical reputation gives her that much credits. Which to be honest this looks like exactly like the same situation with Tiger Tank in World of Tanks.


I used to think that "Ability to overmatch other battleships" to be in some use for clan battles but it is so clear. It has no use. She's just another overhyped, overrated warmachine.

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Many people in Yamato believes that the best way to play would be to save HP for the next match by staying at max range. But why max range? Because you can dodge the shells at max range so that your 97k HP will remain 97k. -told to me by a yamato player ingame.

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overmatch is overhyped

if u overmatch something it will become overpens ribbon most of times

 

2.1 sigma they said? uber accuration they said?

yeah. while the horizontal dispersion is kind of grouped to the middle. yamato got screwed hard by her super bad vertical dispersion

so yeah. back to square one

 

yamato buff when? 

 

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19 minutes ago, Seraza said:

Many people in Yamato believes that the best way to play would be to save HP for the next match by staying at max range. But why max range? Because you can dodge the shells at max range so that your 97k HP will remain 97k. -told to me by a yamato player ingame.

59e1117d30e60_HeyManYouSeeThatGuyOverThere14102017021725.thumb.jpg.9c3e2ded37150e1aa756562b874a084c.jpg

Edited by drakon233

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Just now, ReNation said:

overmatch is overhyped

if u overmatch something it will become overpens ribbon most of times

 

2.1 sigma they said? uber accuration they said?

yeah. while the horizontal dispersion is kind of grouped to the middle. yamato got screwed hard by her super bad vertical dispersion

so yeah. back to square one

 

yamato buff when? 

 

59e1100b1f942_CaptainAmericaCivilWar14102017021152.thumb.jpg.b14092f9e50fb5bf73eb5c594bece785.jpg

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I haven't seen any noticeable change in the amount of aggressive/passive play at high tiers recently so I'd look forward to seeing your meta/role part.

 

Personally I think the ability to overmatch 30mm deck/mid-plating of t10 cruisers is undervalued. The former allows you to counter long range kiting CA way more effectively than Montana/GK. It's fairly easy to flank and kite Montana/GK with near impunity in a Zao/Hindenburg (and probably Henri as well but I haven't unlocked it). At late game it's totally possible to have a solo kill against these BB and not losing too much HP. Against Yamato you still eat 9-15k salvos pretty much all the time so it's a very costly trade even if you win.

 

I do have mixed feelings about the raised broadside citadel as well - I think people put too much blame on it when compared to other BB. My experience in reality shows that it's not uncommon to see shattered (not bounce) shells against slightly angled (15-20 degree) Yamato at around 16-17km with Montana/GK guns and 14-15km with t8 BB guns so I'm not too scared to show my broadside and make a 180 degree turn outside that range. If I'm too close (under 12km) the real problem is the weird frontal citadel armor - that I have to agree with you. Your other points are also accurate.

 

Btw, how many times have you been detonated in a Yamato? :Smile_teethhappy:

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3 hours ago, LunaStinger said:

I do have mixed feelings about the raised broadside citadel as well - I think people put too much blame on it when compared to other BB. My experience in reality shows that it's not uncommon to see shattered (not bounce) shells against slightly angled (15-20 degree) Yamato at around 16-17km with Montana/GK guns and 14-15km with t8 BB guns so I'm not too scared to show my broadside and make a 180 degree turn outside that range. If I'm too close (under 12km) the real problem is the weird frontal citadel armor - that I have to agree with you. Your other points are also accurate.

 

Btw, how many times have you been detonated in a Yamato? :Smile_teethhappy:

i would also like to point out that conq 457mm guns canalso overmatch 30mm hull plateing and is in a much better position to do so since it has literally better concealment then moskek, hindy and H–IV

 

too many

Edited by drakon233

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Say , isnt this a meta thing.

The Yamato is clearly a hammer and work best in the doomsnail tactic of a slowly creeping frontline.

It might not suit our meta , but on EU and NA , it can be very good as the main firepower.

In our meta, Montana and Conqueror is clearly superior for zipping around and avoiding strongpoints.

I clearly think that Yammy doesnt need any buff other than lowering its turret traverse to something like 65s /180 degree , it should be weak in CQC and wreck everything else when sniping properly.

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Yamato’s front and rear armor box bulkhead was a genius design historically, being thinner than the main belt but stronger due to its heavy incline. This design also allows the length of main belt be reduced, saving weight while not compromising protection compared to a traditional rectangular armor box.

But not in WoWS, the front bulkhead is the Achilles' Heel of Yamato.

Another interesting aspect is that Yamato/Iowa/Montana all have similar machinery position inside the armor box, i.e. the machinery lies below the shrapnel deck which is below the main deck somewhere near the waterline. In game Yamato's entire armor box is considered citadel while Montana and Iowa got their citadel lowered to below the shrapnel deck earlier this year.

Edited by HMS_Swiftsure_08

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5 minutes ago, HMS_Swiftsure_08 said:

Yamato’s front and rear armor box bulkhead was a genius design historically, being thinner than the main belt but stronger due to its heavy incline. This design also allows the length of main belt be reduced, saving weight while not compromising protection compared to a traditional rectangular armor box.

But not in WoWS, the front bulkhead is the Achilles' Heel of Yamato.

Another interesting aspect is that Yamato/Iowa/Montana all have similar machinery position inside the armor box, i.e. the machinery lies below the shrapnel deck which is below the main deck somewhere near the waterline. In game Yamato's entire armor box is considered citadel while Montana and Iowa got their citadel lowered to below the shrapnel deck earlier this year.

exactly, why is she the only remaining high tier BB that has a relatively undefended citadel?

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9 hours ago, MikuChrome said:

...Maybe historical reputation gives her that much credits. Which to be honest this looks like exactly like the same situation with Tiger Tank in World of Tanks...

What reputation? :Smile_teethhappy:

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