A Possibly Intelligent Rant About: Aircraft Carriers

[InterconKW]

When I was just a little noob,
I thought that carriers would be OP
So I got a Hosho
Found out I sucked
That's why I quit CVs.


First of all, the title of this post sounds really... REALLY contradictory. Second of all, keep in mind that I'm writing this after 3 consecutive games with an AFK or sub 200 base EXP CV on my team, all were losses, and this is far from the first time this has happened... so if something salty and stupid comes out, you can blame them who I shall not name. I am already out of reports for today.

Now... CVs. Are they... overpowered? Not necessarily _{cough cough Saipan} but they are without doubt the highest influence class in the game, in particular at midtier, where most ship AA hasn't picked up yet and CVs have full reign to spread their flies around the map to spot and conduct (if they are decent) probably unavoidable manual drop attacks. Fine.

"With great power comes great responsibility."

 

Okay, I admit when I was a garbage straightlining Myogi player I was in every way convinced carriers were overpowered. That is, until I actually got one and got into the world of micromanagement involved in carriers. Clearly to me it felt like a class that could in every way heavily influence games, but the RTS-ish playstyle, iffy UI, required skills and of course responsibility involved just screamed that CVs were not a class for everyone.

So this rant addresses that "everyone else" group who play carriers without any sign of having an IQ greater than one figure kappa of the required skills. The people who come into a game in the highest influence ship, run out in the open and become first to die/AFK etc. etc. or play carriers without the knowledge of even the basic strategy. Now believe it or not, I ran into an Enterprise player who happened to have no other CV in port, and I'm noone to "statshame" but this guy went charging to the front lines, quickly turning the Big E into the Flat Scraps... and then proceeded to ask in all-chat...

 "how launch plane"

HAVE ALL MY REPORTS, SIR.

The situation has repeated around me both on the enemy team and on my team many times... and the moment you see one CV is visibly bad, you can just imagine players on the other team cheering away. 

Why does only one team having a CV that can do something matter more than an AFK DD/BB/CA/CL? Well... an AFK or effectively useless ship always sucks, but it sucks more with carriers. It gives the enemy CV free reign of the skies. Strikes and strikes without counter, on average 6-7 in a match?... without being spotted itself. Easy mode as the only direct counter to the enemy CV is your CV who may as well be nonexistent points fodder for the enemy. That could very well put your team not only on the disadvantage by sealing the fates of 2-3 more ships or even greater... a guaranteed loss. Alternatively the team could ball up and become an AA "Your planes is dead" death sphere, a frequent phenomenon in CV games anyway, and that kind of makes the games snoozefests. Since this is a rant I might was well throw in the "games with CVs are more boring because anyone who goes out alone dies and thus deathballing becomes the best choice." Even then, if your useless rotting plank CV might be sniped, putting the enemy ahead on points.

There are so many ways for you to single- handedly throw your team into loss as a carrier. Your team depends largely on you, and if you can't play CVs even if your life depended on it... would you fall into that category of Premium CV buyers or grinders with little to no carrier knowledge spamming games at 10% the server average score and an even lower percent of the winrate (and that would be completely because of you throwing games as stated above by the way)? Sounds like a bad choice but a significant enough portion of the CV population is making it.

To me, something needs to be done. I don't have a surefire solution at hand, but to me carriers need a rework in implementation. Something to decrease their influence... would that make carriers too unplayable? Reducing the range of planes from the CV to make them more battleline standard such that they could play the positions of a second line surface ship? Something to discourage players from playing CVs if they cannot? Anything to target these perceived flaws in CV implementation as the "game throwing, fun ruining class" would do. Even a "NO CV IN MY GAME" option for queuing. I'm sure the population is big enough.

I don't know how much people here would see eye to eye with me, so I'm totally open to discussion. Is there a flaw or unexplained gap in my logic? Tell me. Is there a random-player friendly counter to this? Have a proposed better solution? Tell me, tell me. Anything goes.

And if my writing format has a repeated point or beats around the bush too much, tell me. I can correct it :I

[ArchKongou]

If I were u, if I notice some of my team mate are completely useless or didn't know what to do (doesn't matter which class boat  they use), here what I'll do:

1. Turn off chat channel or ignore it & just use quick command.

2. There are high chance I'll lose the game if one of my main player completely AFK or have no clue what to do. What I do is farm damage & credit, wreck my enemies as much as I can and tell myself to gid gud. Because I know I will gain more credit from the others despite I'll lose.

3. Once I done as much damage I make & dead in the game, just get out from the match and continue other matches, or other modes, or just simply out of the game itself and play other game. 

4. If I still have a bad day, I'm simply turn off my pc and tell myself to get some fresh air outside. 

 

Anyway, win or lose just a normal thing ( to me, I didn't know the rest of u guys since win or lose are not my concern anymore). Sometimes we cant please everybody.

 

Btw, I  received 2 report when I'm playing Ryujo despite I help my team win the game 2 days ago & become top 3 in my team. But I already get use to it whenever everytime I'm play CV & DD's

[legionary2099]

I dont get it with your rant @InterconKW, this problem has been excessively put on the table time and time again when someone go apeshit at what someone doing wrong or not good enough.

Feelings aside , CV require a completely different set of skills , not necessarily harder , but stark contrast to the other 3 class who share same control mechanics.

CV IS NOT HARD , contrary to popular belief, now after getting a good thousand game or so into cv , it is not hard at all after you get a grasp of what to do with your controls.

What is hard about CV is not the control nor the manual drop , it is the positioning of your squads , which heavily dictate the battle flow.

If you really want to make CV less influencing , i suggest the introduction of fuel mechanics , where planes loitering too long will be forced to return to refuel ( no loss here ).

Alternatively introduce land based aircrafts spawns that allow the team to call their own air supports , albeit with limited use. This will replace float fighters , which are silly in their own rights,

Each team is given a fixed number of planes, they may call in strikes or fighters with limited duration that spawn from map edges. This give CV incentives to go Air superiority , and the team a tool to save their own butts if the CV is imcompetent

[LordTyphoon]

1 hour ago, InterconKW said:

Now believe it or not, I ran into an Enterprise player who happened to have no other CV in port, and I'm noone to "statshame" but this guy went charging to the front lines, quickly turning the Big E into the Flat Scraps... and then proceeded to ask in all-chat...

 "how launch plane"
 

 

This is excellent. This is too funny. 

 

Every time I play CV now, I will type this into chat to all and see what happens.  Will upload screenshots so you can all see the hate flow. 

[_neppu]

9 minutes ago, LordTyphoon said:

 

This is excellent. This is too funny. 

 

Every time I play CV now, I will type this into chat to all and see what happens.  Will upload screenshots so you can all see the hate flow. 

did you get -77 karma afterwards? 

[karrablaster123]

This problem exists in all classes. The reason it is amplified in the CV class is because in any game there are max 2 CVs. On the other hand, there are 3+ DD, 3+ CA and 3+BB. Due to the fewer number of CV, the same responsibility that exists in all the classes exists but on fewer people. Another problem is the way CVs have been implemented. The discrepancy in outcome between having two decent CVs on one team and one decent CV and one potato CV on the other team is far larger than in the same situation in any other class. Having a potato CV influences your ability to play CV severely. On the other hand, having a potato BB does not influence your ability to play your BB much.

[darkflame88]

I personally believe that CV's should have their own game mode, where several CV's battle over a much larger area, with AI screening vessels. Bearing in mind that most battles between carriers took place without one side ever sighting the other.

The other thing that has to be specifically reworked, or done from scratch are the squadrons, with dog fighting left up to basic RNG. DB and TB squadrons don't attempt to evade incoming flak and AA fire by diving suddenly or increasing their altitude, instead flying straight into it and exploding. Squadrons should not have such rudimentary AI.

 

The problem is I doubt that WoWs has the capability of properly recreating an actual CV battle due to just how complicated the squadrons AI would have to be. At least with the current engine.

 

[icy_phoenix]

Lol. @InterconKW,

 

While everyone from CV master race club is waiting for buffs so that CV can get 1 devstrike per strike with 0 resistance from surface ships, you are asking about reducing their effectiveness??

 

How dare you???

 

Don't you know they are rendering the community a great service just by queuing with CVs? This should be enough. No need to git gud, or play. Sheer presence of CV in your team is a blessing. Stop reporting them.

 

IMO, removing AA from surface ships, and locking their control so that they can't WASD when planes are near should solve some of the problems. Giving all CVs just strike load out will also help. Fighters are overrated, they are of no use. Many CV players don't even launch them.

[humusz]

Well its the problem of having a single most influenced class in a battle

when you suck on other class, people dont realy took notice because there is other BB,DD, or CA sailing around

 

but when playing carrier you, are the sole class on that match. you being put on stage so to say

When you suck, everyone know it

When you make mistake, everyone see it

When you beaten, everyone know you lost one on one with enemy

When they lost, the guy on stage got the blame - while its seems unfair, the responsibility of CV is also bigger than other

 

When a Carrier want you dead, you dead.

This was the biggest problem with carrier. there is little counterplay

If you ever singled out by CV, that hellbent on kill you for good or no reason - you dead (like you the only DD on team - killing you were autowin)

 

IMO CV need more than rework, it need dismantled and rebuild from ground up

the UI is and still laggish, unit response is delayed, AA mechanic and visual effect are terribad (prof that Air element is just so underdeveloped), Air combat were sucks and boring (I would prefer like Homeworld 2, handle multiple unit on squadrons).

some say, they dont want it turn into RTS. but people that like RTS wont like lack of the element - and people that dont touch RTS normaly dislike the gameplay either. so why bother :x

 

I think introducing "semi smart" AI Bots that control other Aircraft or land based Airstrip prob good idea (not the basic bots like current game)

Like Titanfall bot, it reduce burden and responsibility of a CV player to cover entire map. which can making player feel good and air war somewhat populated

The bots can limitedly response to player request for anti air umbrela and such, thus giving introducing additional counterplay element which should reducing influence of CV play but somewhat increasing presence of Air element into the match

[Lebran_Erika]

CV may carry games at mid tiers, but once you hit higher tiers you will face a lot of AA thus your carry potential is gone.

I feel that CV players can only be as good as how well the team performs. If your team doesn't take out high AA targets, your planes just won't get through. If your team don't push caps, there is nothing a CV can do.

Return to your hosho and grind your way up. You will learn lessons and tactics to get a better view of the current situation of CV.

[pwnies5600]

9 hours ago, InterconKW said:

Now believe it or not, I ran into an Enterprise player who happened to have no other CV in port, and I'm noone to "statshame" but this guy went charging to the front lines, quickly turning the Big E into the Flat Scraps... and then proceeded to ask in all-chat...

 "how launch plane"

AHAHAHAHAHA this made my day

2 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

While everyone from CV master race club is waiting for buffs so that CV can get 1 devstrike per strike with 0 resistance from surface ships

Buff? Where?

 

Yes, it is most definitely a frustrating experience when the enemy CV is so good your CV often pales in comparison, but hey, that's the nature of the game. If you think you can do a better job, go do it. Recently I've been playing low tier CV (US + IJN tier 4-6) and I can tell you it's not for everyone.

Have I been doing well in it? Relatively, yes. Is it fun? Once you get used to it, yes. Do you get blamed for losing? Often times, yes.

It's not fully the game's fault that this is the way it is though. The interface is not exactly the most forgiving and this MM clearly favors the experienced, but playing CV has been a humbling experience (at least for me). By putting yourself in the shoes of your average CV player, you will really understand why sometimes your CV loses, be it that the team didn't destroy enough AA modules on ships with heavy AA armament, or the enemy CV just simply had the upper hand. Though I can't speak for certain about higher tier CV gameplay, one thing is for certain though, if you are playing it right, the compliments should vastly outweigh the reports.

Maybe I just haven't seen any CVs "throw" games, but I do agree a rework of the UI will be necessary. I like the RTS style, but it just isn't fast enough for alt-attacks. As for throwing games, well, it is the result of a diversified player base. After all, it's only gaem, why you heff to be mad?

Good luck and fair seas!

[IndyChanKawaii]

40 minutes ago, Lebran_Erika said:

CV may carry games at mid tiers, but once you hit higher tiers you will face a lot of AA thus your carry potential is gone.

I feel that CV players can only be as good as how well the team performs. If your team doesn't take out high AA targets, your planes just won't get through. If your team don't push caps, there is nothing a CV can do.

Return to your hosho and grind your way up. You will learn lessons and tactics to get a better view of the current situation of CV.

Actually CV has lower carry potential at low tier due to the lack of auto drop (t4/5) and low hangar size (t6). If the player is determined, a t9/10 CV can attack any lone target except a DM and Hindenburg with DFAA ready. The key is to be patient and wait until ships stop sticking together. CV is also less dependent on the team thanks to the fact that it can attack and spot any target on the map - you can support a weak flank easier in a carrier than in any other class.

[Skarhabek]

12 hours ago, legionary2099 said:

 

If you really want to make CV less influencing , i suggest the introduction of fuel mechanics , where planes loitering too long will be forced to return to refuel ( no loss here ).

Alternatively introduce land based aircrafts spawns that allow the team to call their own air supports , albeit with limited use. This will replace float fighters , which are silly in their own rights,

Each team is given a fixed number of planes, they may call in strikes or fighters with limited duration that spawn from map edges. This give CV incentives to go Air superiority , and the team a tool to save their own butts if the CV is imcompetent

+1

this..... HOW THE HECK nobody thinking about this! WHY NOT??? this should be implemented, ASAP! and it can spot for team too for several second!

 

imagine you are in BB 1vs1 againts ninja DD, with air support from the land you can locate where is DD! 

imagine you are in small little DD in the cap, got spotted by enemy CV. your CV is USN strike loadout.... with air support from the land it will clear the sky from pesky enemy CV flies......

 

also this is HUGE buff for USN CV with AS loadout or strike!

so i can go play USN CV with strike loadout mouahahaahahaha

 

note : this should be apply for some map only, and CV can only play on that map. for example CV cannt appear on the ocean, since no island in there and air support from the land is not possible.

 

2 hours ago, LunaStinger said:

Actually CV has lower carry potential at low tier due to the lack of auto drop (t4/5) and low hangar size (t6). If the player is determined, a t9/10 CV can attack any lone target except a DM and Hindenburg with DFAA ready. The key is to be patient and wait until ships stop sticking together. CV is also less dependent on the team thanks to the fact that it can attack and spot any target on the map - you can support a weak flank easier in a carrier than in any other class.

well, CV is strong everywhere.... even low tier CV can rekt everyone. in higher tier they are become more dangerous, except you are T8 CV againts T10. 

 

the problem of high tier  CV is not AA, but LOW DAMAGE......

 

120K damage in shokaku is worthless againt T10 BB.....

60K damage in Ryujo can destroy more than 1 BB at full HP

 

also burning T10 cruiser is even more worthless... they got repair party.....

[icy_phoenix]

Wait wait wait... First time I'm reading something from Sharkbait that may be making some sense!

Have my +1, not because of the post, since I still have no idea what that was all about, but for coming back to forums! We missed you!!

[Skarhabek]

33 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

Wait wait wait... First time I'm reading something from Sharkbait that may be making some sense!

Have my +1, not because of the post, since I still have no idea what that was all about, but for coming back to forums! We missed you!!

 

my HDD blown up and most of data inside it corrupted. take a lot of week to backup and its useless..... finally abandon myold  HDD data, redownload everything from the scratch....

take a week to download all software. may be it will take more day if my friend is not coming with WoWs client and other online games.....

 

well, i miss my Algerie too! :v

 

[FishyPower]

There are many problems with CV game play that I can see.

 

Many players don't understand DoT stacking. It isn't about spamming torps and dive bombers. It'll be a lot more efficient if you have a dive bomber light the guy on fire and let your 2nd squad hover out of AA, forcing him to either burn or put out the flames and be burned by the 2nd squard.

 

2nd, they don't understand the importance of spotting. If you keep a squad of planes over your DD that smoked up in cap, chances are, that cap is yours. You don't need to use fighters. Let the fighters pressure the enemy squadron and keep them away from your team, use the dive bomber that has dropped their load to spot for the DD.

 

3rd, target prioritization. I see too many CVs going after that 5k HP target that is being focused by 5 teammates. Do the team a favor and burn that full HP BB 2km away so that when your teammates move on to HE spam that guy, his repair party will be on cool down.