How do you balance between team play and selfishness

[MyNameBiku]

I'm near the point where I give up on any form of  team play. I was in a GK, I had 5 other ships with me. Guess what I got focused fired into oblivion by 3 ships. 1 was a Yamato, one was a Zao, didn't pay attention to the 3rd. I expected that with a 2 to 1 number advantage the team would be able to at least back me up.

 

No.

 

They saw the Yamato and turned tailed and ran. Meanwhile I trusted them and headed in to cap. I honestly don't know what to do anymore. Not trusting the team and going for solo play might help my stats, but my WR wouldn't rise. Yet, team play is so risky that it is both frustrating and often not worth it.

[Ordrazz]

1 hour ago, FishyPower said:

I'm near the point where I give up on any form of  team play. I was in a GK, I had 5 other ships with me. Guess what I got focused fired into oblivion by 3 ships. 1 was a Yamato, one was a Zao, didn't pay attention to the 3rd. I expected that with a 2 to 1 number advantage the team would be able to at least back me up.

 

No.

 

They saw the Yamato and turned tailed and ran. Meanwhile I trusted them and headed in to cap. I honestly don't know what to do anymore. Not trusting the team and going for solo play might help my stats, but my WR wouldn't rise. Yet, team play is so risky that it is both frustrating and often not worth it.

 

That's what happened to me last night too when I was in my Tirpitz... I was using my stealth concealment, a cruiser & a Missouri was with me, the cruiser went first & got surprised torpedo by an atago that suddenly appeared in front of the enemy grosser kurfurst, & there was another BB that we couldn't see & a us cruiser running away.... 

I citadeled the at ago, it turned away & so did the other cruiser... The GK started shooting at me, meanwhile my teammate Missouri turned & ran away at full health!!! I didn't notice for a min, then I did, & tried to turn away, but floor focussed on by the GK & the 2 cruisers !!!! 

The rest of the team lemminged to the right, so the other ships initially sailing with us racked off, but to see this Missouri turn & run without helping was mind stumping !!!!

So much for teamwork.

 

Ordrazz

[_neppu]

In a broadest sense for battleships, you need to be close enough to do the tanking and dealing effective volleys, but further away from the enemies enough to manage your heal vs. focused fire damage.

 

If more than 3 ships focus at you (particulary HE spammers) and the grey bar is ripe for healing, then it's a good time to turn tail, heal, go dark, and come back for tanking again once your next heal is ready. 

[MyNameBiku]

32 minutes ago, Admiral_Neptulussus said:

In a broadest sense for battleships, you need to be close enough to do the tanking and dealing effective volleys, but further away from the enemies enough to manage your heal vs. focused fire damage.

 

If more than 3 ships focus at you (particulary HE spammers) and the grey bar is ripe for healing, then it's a good time to turn tail, heal, go dark, and come back for tanking again once your next heal is ready. 

 

Well, doesn't work if your DDs decided "Derp derp, Ima go kill CV" AT THE START OF THE MATCH. We really needed cap points so I decided to push in. I thought, ok, I'll take significant damage, but I'll be alive. Of course, that's assuming the 5 ships around me tried to fire their guns at all.

[_neppu]

2 minutes ago, FishyPower said:

 

Well, doesn't work if your DDs decided "Derp derp, Ima go kill CV" AT THE START OF THE MATCH. We really needed cap points so I decided to push in. I thought, ok, I'll take significant damage, but I'll be alive. Of course, that's assuming the 5 ships around me tried to fire their guns at all.

 

More like you can't cap at all if you are detected and enemy are actively harassing you, unless you force the enemies to run to the other side of the island or hide under the waterline, otherwise, the best you can do is to delay the cap point for a few minutes before you die and give the enemy back 50 points for you dying.

[MyNameBiku]

3 minutes ago, Admiral_Neptulussus said:

 

More like you can't cap at all if you are detected and enemy are actively harassing you, unless you force the enemies to run to the other side of the island or hide under the waterline, otherwise, the best you can do is to delay the cap point for a few minutes before you die and give the enemy back 50 points for you dying.

 It was our 6 against their 3. 1 Yamato that I had island cover against, 1 Zao that HE spammed me and another one that I didn't take note of cause he was further away. There was a Hindenburg that did enter cap with me, but the other 4 ships which included a Montana and a Zao just turned tail and ran. They took 0 damage and didn't even fire a single damn shot.

[_neppu]

2 minutes ago, FishyPower said:

 It was our 6 against their 3. 1 Yamato that I had island cover against, 1 Zao that HE spammed me and another one that I didn't take note of cause he was further away. There was a Hindenburg that did enter cap with me, but the other 4 ships which included a Montana and a Zao just turned tail and ran. They took 0 damage and didn't even fire a single damn shot.

 

So it happens. It's become damned if you do, damned (more) if you don't at that point I guess.

[MyNameBiku]

4 minutes ago, Admiral_Neptulussus said:

 

So it happens. It's become damned if you do, damned (more) if you don't at that point I guess.

 

Not only that. When I'm in a DD, I really don't know what they want me to do. "Turn towards me so I can smoke you" the guy proceeds to turn the other way and get deleted cause he showed broadside...

[keskparane]

If you run a stats viewer when you play I believe you will come to the same conclusion as I have. Players with less than 50% wr are a liability. Players with less than 45% wr can be assured to do the exact opposite of what is sensible. The only solution IMO is minor stat matching in MM. I think the <50%ers should have their own groups to fart around in.

 

edit: To add many of these <45%ers have player thousands of game. They clearly show no ability to learn/adapt. Putting them with better players must also ruin the game for them because they are like sheep amongst wolves

[MyNameBiku]

1 minute ago, keskparane said:

If you run a stats viewer when you play I believe you will come to the same conclusion as I have. Players with less than 50% wr are a liability. Players with less than 45% wr can be assured to do the exact opposite of what is sensible. The only solution IMO is minor stat matching in MM. I think the <50%ers should have their own groups to fart around in.

 

Given that I'm a 47%er it kinda hurts a little :I But I'd like to say it's due to the ships I play...

[keskparane]

I play every ship. I'm sure you would like to say it's the ship.

[MyNameBiku]

2 minutes ago, keskparane said:

I play every ship. I'm sure you would like to say it's the ship.

 

I don't think I'm that great a player, but still, I think the Sims, Atlanta, New Orleans and Prinz Eugen are relatively high skill floor ships :I

[keskparane]

3 minutes ago, FishyPower said:

 

Given that I'm a 47%er it kinda hurts a little :I But I'd like to say it's due to the ships I play...

It hurts me too when I do something stupid. I know I am impatient and that it costs me. But I know it is me.

[MyNameBiku]

1 minute ago, keskparane said:

It hurts me too when I do something stupid. I know I am impatient and that it costs me. But I know it is me.

 

Same here. Still trying to reign that in but I'm having varied success. The belief that my team will know how to support is my main cause of downfall recently

[keskparane]

That is definitely a major contributing factor. In some cases its very hard because after 5 minutes a quarter of your team is dead and you are getting focus fired by half their team. Swings and roundabouts, there will be days like these. That is why I think some degree of matching would be good because it gives players a fighting chance at their level. It makes it easier for players to learn and improve. Playing against people who are way better than you is just too hard. There is a reason why courses, lessons, etc all start at a basic level and increase in skill requirement as they go.

[keskparane]

13 minutes ago, FishyPower said:

 

I don't think I'm that great a player, but still, I think the Sims, Atlanta, New Orleans and Prinz Eugen are relatively high skill floor ships :I

Ok. Well I do agree that some ships really are best at support roles and that without that support they have reduced chance to cause substantial damage. All the more reason why you shouldn't be paired with players that will die early and leave you without that support.

[IndyChanKawaii]

The quality of players (especially high tier) is so low these days that it's not worth going for teamplay most of the time. I wish WG increases both t8+ servicing cost and reward by 100% so people who are actually useful can get paid for their effort.

[MyNameBiku]

Most importantly, I really don't know if solo play will get me more wins than team play...

[icy_phoenix]

Selfishness is when you force your lower HP targets to tank for you, even when you have a lot more remaining.

Selfishness is when you play strike CV. Not saying you shouldn't do it, but clearly you are playing for yourself only. Putting 11 metric tons of extra pressure on allies.

Selfishness is when you are in a CV, you go for a full dump on a 4k hp target that everyone else was shooting anyway. Because no, this doesn't fall in KS category. This falls in BS category.

Selfishness is when you have smoke, and you don't need it, still you don't use it to cover up allies who have been tanking it up for the team.

Selfishness is trying to complete missions instead of trying to win the battle.

 

There are usually the general cases.

[MyNameBiku]

2 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

Selfishness is when you force your lower HP targets to tank for you, even when you have a lot more remaining.

Selfishness is when you play strike CV. Not saying you shouldn't do it, but clearly you are playing for yourself only. Putting 11 metric tons of extra pressure on allies.

Selfishness is when you are in a CV, you go for a full dump on a 4k hp target that everyone else was shooting anyway. Because no, this doesn't fall in KS category. This falls in BS category.

Selfishness is when you have smoke, and you don't need it, still you don't use it to cover up allies who have been tanking it up for the team.

Selfishness is trying to complete missions instead of trying to win the battle.

 

There are usually the general cases.

 

How about being behind the CAs simply because I have range. Advancing to the CA's range means I get focus fired and I can't run easily

[icy_phoenix]

11 minutes ago, FishyPower said:

 

How about being behind the CAs simply because I have range. Advancing to the CA's range means I get focus fired and I can't run easily

 

"Being behind CAs" is a vague statement. If your CAs are tanking for you, then it's a problem. Also, having range doesn't mean you reach their front line from way back, it's there so that you can reach their back line if need be.

[MyNameBiku]

2 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

 

"Being behind CAs" is a vague statement. If your CAs are tanking for you, then it's a problem. Also, having range doesn't mean you reach their front line from way back, it's there so that you can reach their back line if need be.

 

Typically, the CAs like being around 12-15km I prefer 15-18km in early game when I drive my GK

[New_Horizontal]

It depend solely on player's mentality.
you cannot predict which groups worth playing as team nor just farming stats because GG until battle already developed for sometime.
if you see people play to win - go help them as much as you can.
if you see people play to lose by any means - leave them, they are useless for your team anyways.
that's how you make up your mind which way you want to do.

[SZYZWY]

This is a game where a hint of selfishness helps the team and a hint of teamwork promotes your selfishness.

I can't exactly say exact situations as they really are depending on both your team and the enemy team's behavior as to how they turn out.
All I can say is observe your team and the enemy team some more to accumulate experience on "this'd probably happen if I do this". There's a time to leave your teammates fish out of the water even if you could help them as it's "better" to do so and there's a time to charge right in and die in the 5th minute to tank as it's also "better" to do so in such situations.
Weighing those decisions is what differentiates each player from each other and getting better at it in a multitude of situations will definitely help you out.

tl;dr : There's no definite answer but to accumulate more experience to be able to decide what to do in any given situation better.

[cplripley]

Im at 500 games as a Tank refugee here but always had ships from day one and liked it but considered the other game priority as I have a Clan.

I am a DD driver, and I will no longer rush to cap for a team, you just get left out to dry by the bbs,  and ca as they cower behind an island waiting for you to win it for them, I will not cover you in smoke, that's my getaway smoke, you have armour and hit points, I have smoke.

I will stay up and spot as long as you are moving forward, the minute you turn to snipe leaving me 3 layers to deal with while you engage 1 im history.

I will risk myself mid to late game for torp runs if you get in as well and help keep him busy, I wont do run after run to leave you the last salvo, I will run back to base to defend, I know you are slow, If you make no effort to arrive I will abandon the defense.

This game doesn't have a team work problem, it has an idiot camper BB problem.

52 % green with 27k battles on Tanks,  43 % with 500 games here, I reckon my new and nooobness is worth a current 46ish and expecting teams to actually fight is the rest.

BBs are the heavy tank equal, they should be first in battle, if your secondarys are not in use then you are too far back and wasting firepower, DDs and CA  can help you from flanks and help encircle.

I prob shouldn't have bought tier 8s and stayed at the low tiers for a while, but I wanted to try the big ones so I wear that noob decision.

TLDR,  no matter what I drive, if the BBs camp back so do I.