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JarofVegemite

Impressions from a new(ish) player

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I only very recently (July) started playing WoW, and in that time have played a lot (probably too much...), whilst reading up on info here, the other forums, and the wiki. As such, I thought I'd offer my opinion on what the game is like for a relative noob;

 

The jump from Tier 4 to Tier 5 is brutal

I appreciate Tier 4 gets preferential match making, and many who have played for a while likely progressed through these tiers without it, but for newcomers the jump to Tier 5 is brutally unforgiving, to the extent I wonder how many players simply give up at this point.

The problem isn't just the change in match making (although that is a big part of it), it's that entire dynamic of the game changes. Having played cruisers of all nationalities up to tier 4, I quickly discovered that Tier 5 is a completely different ball game, probably best demonstrated by the jump from the Kuma to the Furutaka, and was subsequently introduced to the island hugging meta that seems to dominate up till the very highest tiers. I gave it a go for a few weeks, but then gave up. Cruisers at this tier simply weren't fun anymore, and I wasn't prepared to adopt a camping mentality and grind out xp to get the high tier cruisers people seem to rate so highly. Instead, the only post Tier 4 cruisers I own only get used in operations now. 

The same largely goes for destroyers. As I stopped moving up the cruiser line, I subsequently have nfi which cruisers have radar, and only the other day discovered German DD's have hydro. That's information I would have liked to have had earlier....With the camping meta on higher tiers, DD's also become much harder to play, as you rarely receive support whilst contesting a cap, as everyone is desperately hugging islands trying to avoid being liquidated by snipping BB's. Again, this isn't much fun, although I'm still trying to make DD's work at this level.

I don't play BB's much, but suspect they make the transition from Tier 4 to 5 much more easily than any other class, which is one factor in the predominance of Battleships in the game, as players of other tiers likely migrate over to them to make the jump to Tier 5 easier. Especially now with the RN BB's out in the wild. At least with BB's you don't have to completely relearn basic game concepts in them like you do with other classes.

 

I suspect many players simply don't understand basic game concepts

Not just stuff like torp range (many low tier players seem to have no idea about this), but how important contesting caps is. Since WG reward damage and kill farming so conspicuously, many players seem to focus on that exclusively, and end up fighting their own private wars on one edge of the map, away from the rest of their team that is fighting and dying over the caps. This leads to learned behavior that is carried into higher tiers, where teammates still refuse to support the caps, despite them becoming more important in higher tiers, owing to more drawn out games.

Whilst these players get a lot of abuse on here and elsewhere, I suspect many of them simply aren't aware of how caps work, and why they are important. WG does a very bad job of explaining this. I didn't really understand epicenter games for a while either. I read capping used to earn much more experience, but they nerfed it. Dunno their reasons why. But WG needs to make the importance of capping much clearer to players. Lead them by the nose. More carrot, less stick in the way of nerfs to encourage aggressive play is needed.

 

OP ships are OP

Horribly OP ships like the Imperator Nikolai and Kamikaze R are terribly unfun to play against. Nuff said. I can tolerate it without throwing my toys out of the pram, but like before I wonder how many newish players but heads with these ships, get utterly wrecked, and give the game up as a result. Again, many new payers are going to have no idea what these ships are (since they are not in the Tech Tree), or what they are capable of, until it is far too late. WG needs to understand that not every new player is going to be reading the forums or wikis religiously.

 

The community is surprisingly good

The main reason it took me so long to pick this game up is because I am extremely wary of online games owing to the toxic bull*..* they encourage in in-game chat. Instead I have found almost no examples of the sort of stuff that has blighted other games for me. You guys are alright :cap_like:

 

I appreciate many of my *whinges* are owing to my relative lack of, um, skill, but feel my observations are consistent with what many new players, who try and learn wider game concepts as they go in order to become a better player, experience. WoW starts out extremely fun (but sadly underpopulated) at the lowest tiers, hits its peak (imo) at Tier 4, but then becomes a massive ballaching grind thereafter, without the caveat of at least remaining fun for the newish player to persevere with.  This, imo,  leads to a closeted community of experts at higher tiers, making the jump even harder for new players to make, and further accelerating the migration to BBs, as at least then you are going to survive more than 10 minutes. It also probably leads to newish players buying high tier premiums in order to gain an 'advantage'.

 

I imagine WG have metrics etc on how many players start the game, and how many drop off at around Tier 5. Based on my experiences, I expect it's a lot. I do like Operations being Tier 6 though. That's a really good move, and an excuse to get out ships I wouldn't really want to play in PvP...

 

Anyways, hopefully this didn't come across as a massive whinge. Wouldn't have played so much if I wasn't having fun. I will definitely go on playing tier 4 (its awesome), and trying to get to grips with higher tier play in my DDs. Only I get the feeling there are important systemic problems within the game at lower tiers, and that jump to tier 5, that are undoubtedly influencing some of the problems players face at higher tiers (camping BBs et al), plus driving away new players. To reiterate, WG needs to explain basic concepts much better to new players, and lead them by the nose to the good play styles it wants them to adopt in higher tiers.

 

TL:DR: Git gud noob

 

 

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Yeah I totally agree there's a bit of a jump going from T4->T5, that's not anything new. It partly because of the significant change in stats of ships at that point, there's another jump like it at around T7. T4 ships have +/- 1 MM because they fail pretty hard against T6 ships in general.

The transition for BBs is a bit easier, basically you get bigger guns and/or thicker armour and can generally shoot further. The change in the ships around them and the general meta does make it a bit different to play, but as long as you learned torpedo dodging and anticipation and the basics of managing damage control you should do ok.

OP ships are a bit of a problem, but the lower tier ones aren't as bad as some of the higher ones. (looking at Kutuzov and Bellfast). Kamikaze R actually was identical to the tech tree Minekaze when it first came out, but they nerfed many IJN DDs including the Minekaze. They won't nerf premiums for some reason even if they're out right OP and breaking the game. Partly because they know that there is an element of the player base that would cry foul and expect a refund without regard to anything else.

The Nikolai is a different story it was always OP, but again it's not as broken as some of higher tier premiums. Nikolai is strong because she can angle her armour well whilst getting alot of her good firepower on target. Her weakness is torpedoes/aircraft and any one shooting her in the flank, especially with AP. The fact she is slow is not a huge problem.

Sometimes the low tier premiums appear OP because they are more frequently played by experienced players sometimes with high point count captains. I think many of the free tech tree ships are pretty close to being as good, and with experience and practice you can score as well. Hopefully you don't run into the most OP ones like Nikolai too often.

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You only have to land in NA and EU to see the kind of bull you talk about.

It isnt like the flame isnt there , it is just in another language and you will probably not know that you were insulted.

There is like 12 languages here , so beware of that.

MM is dumb on tier 5 , but it is also the gate to overall commitment to the game, if they dont pass that , they probably better off playing other game.

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Hmm if you want some consistency for cruiser, imho pick RN or Soviet cruiser lines. Other cruiser lines will have a quite significant change of play style as it goes up the tech tree.

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1 hour ago, Sparcie said:

Yeah I totally agree there's a bit of a jump going from T4->T5, that's not anything new. It partly because of the significant change in stats of ships at that point, there's another jump like it at around T7. T4 ships have +/- 1 MM because they fail pretty hard against T6 ships in general.

The transition for BBs is a bit easier, basically you get bigger guns and/or thicker armour and can generally shoot further. The change in the ships around them and the general meta does make it a bit different to play, but as long as you learned torpedo dodging and anticipation and the basics of managing damage control you should do ok.

OP ships are a bit of a problem, but the lower tier ones aren't as bad as some of the higher ones. (looking at Kutuzov and Bellfast). Kamikaze R actually was identical to the tech tree Minekaze when it first came out, but they nerfed many IJN DDs including the Minekaze. They won't nerf premiums for some reason even if they're out right OP and breaking the game. Partly because they know that there is an element of the player base that would cry foul and expect a refund without regard to anything else.

The Nikolai is a different story it was always OP, but again it's not as broken as some of higher tier premiums. Nikolai is strong because she can angle her armour well whilst getting alot of her good firepower on target. Her weakness is torpedoes/aircraft and any one shooting her in the flank, especially with AP. The fact she is slow is not a huge problem.

Sometimes the low tier premiums appear OP because they are more frequently played by experienced players sometimes with high point count captains. I think many of the free tech tree ships are pretty close to being as good, and with experience and practice you can score as well. Hopefully you don't run into the most OP ones like Nikolai too often.

 

I love my Imperator Nikolai !!! I take him out at least once a day!!

:Smile_child:

 

Kamikaze, well that's a different kettle of fish, they are a real bane, fast, torps, concealment.... They should be wiped out first if possible. (Same with ALL DD actually)

 

Lol.

 

Ordrazz

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Nah, don't take it so hard when you took the jump from T4 to T5... I admit, MM will take a -1/+2 Tiering when you make it to T5 meaning you'll be facing max +2 Tiers above and 1 Tier below you... At least the economy is still on your side, since you'll hardly deficit on credits even on defeats... So it's pretty much a safe zone to learn new tricks and skills where it'll matter once you get to higher tiers... Defeats are part of the game so live with it, one thing I find terrible however is being on top 6 and below once the match is done Win or Lose...

Wait till you get to T7 where you'll be facing up to Tier 9s ahaha... Just take your time and enjoy the game and savor each match... Next thing you'll know you're adapting quickly to field changes and contributing to the team... That, I think is what makes a good captain in this game...

And one more thing... I do have premium ships but I can hardly call them advantageous to have, sure they have their own perks but just like any other ship in the game they do have their weaknesses... Like Scharny's catching fire way too easy, or Atlantas being squishy as roll of wet tissue paper etc. Premiums just help train captains easy because of the EXP bonus and the Ship XP can easily be converted for Free XP for Dubs making unlocking stuff quicker... I honestly do not believe in any Pay to Win mechanics in this game, more like it is a Pay to Grind...

Edited by Kreigg

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4 hours ago, JarofVegemite said:

I only very recently (July) started playing WoW, and in that time have played a lot (probably too much...),

Have to agree with the "probably too much!" I thought I had been playing a lot with 2400 battles since the start of the year. You went and completed 1600 since only July! I do work 2 jobs 5-6 days a week though which does put a big dint in my PC gaming time each week. :Smile_playing:

Would agree with pretty much everything you have said. If you think T5-6 is a big step up... well prepare yourself for a shock again in the higher tiers. Good to see some active participation in the forum and some constructive criticism/feedback from a newer player. :cap_like:

2 hours ago, Ordrazz said:

Kamikaze, well that's a different kettle of fish, they are a real bane, fast, torps, concealment.... They should be wiped out first if possible. (Same with ALL DD actually)

 

Lol.

Grrrr.... them be fighting words my friend! lol :Smile-angry: Don't get me wrong I very much enjoy my large calibre ship removal systems on my BBs, but without the different gameplay of CL, CA and expecially DD I think I would go nuts. Definitely would not be playing and enjoying the game as much as I am if I couldn't have that variety and the challenge of mastering the different styles.

P.s. I do try to cautiously unlock the cage and release my Nikolai at least once each time I play also.

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4 hours ago, JarofVegemite said:

The jump from Tier 4 to Tier 5 is brutal

 

 

I suspect many players simply don't understand basic game concepts

 

 

When you hit T7 and above you need to up your gameplay again,as you really need to work to get good credit returns,especially if you don't have Premium time.

 

WG have been saying this year that they finally have tutorials in the works,but haven't seen anything in a few months about it.These are sorely needed to teach players at levels how things work.

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1 hour ago, HobartAWD said:

Have to agree with the "probably too much!" I thought I had been playing a lot with 2400 battles since the start of the year. You went and completed 1600 since only July! I do work 2 jobs 5-6 days a week though which does put a big dint in my PC gaming time each week. :Smile_playing:

 

 

What can I say, WG hit gold with Tier 4. Just about every ship is competitive, games are fluid, and aside from the odd exception (usually when each side has two carriers, or a troll seal clubbing division....) hard fought. 

 

Whether the rest of the game would benefit as much from the same +1/-1 matchmaking....well, it wouldn't hurt to try anyway.

 

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@JarofVegemite, some of your observations are good. For example, the game meta changes wildly at tier 5 and the next one in tier 8. You cannot simply play as you would do in lower tiers respectively. This is mostly due to MM. Facing tier 7 in tier 5 ships are hard. Similarly, facing tier 10 ships continuously is not that fun either in tier 8 ships. Luckily, you do not spend much time in these tiers to actually suffer. However I disagree that tier 5 ships aren't fun. Infact, tier 5 cruisers are mostly a lot stronger than previous tiers. Specially Furutaka, Konigsberg, Kirov, Emile, Omaha etc are all very strong ships even against tier 7. After the range buffs, all tier 5 battleships are very much capable of pulling their own weight in tier 7 environment. As a bottom tier, you should avoid head on engagements and learn to play more cautiously.

 

About OP ships, there will always be OP premium ships regardless of tiers. It starts from tier 2, and goes up to tier 8. But tech tree ships aren't always worse than them in any sense. You may need to figure out how to deal with them, or simply hope that the players wont be highly skilled.

 

Regarding new players, no, don't worry about them. New players have protected MM. If you have played 1000 battles and go to play T1, the players you met there are all playing for a while. besides, they are on both sides, winning or losing. And sometimes people with higher tier skills will play low tiers for many reasons, you can even learn from them. This is a slow pace game, many people will simply drop out just for that. Not necessarily its because of premium ship players in low tiers. And you are lucky that you started now, after they removed manual drop from lower tier CVs. You are not suffering endless clubbing of Bogue and Zuiho, that we had to face.

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Icy nicely sums it up... ill add my two cents.

 

There is nothing wrong with hammering bb's to start, for the transition tiers. You get to see all to clearly what works and what dosnt for cruisers and dd's, from a more forgiving perspective.  Im loving cruiser and dd play in the tier 5-8 range at the moment. And its from my extensive experience with BB's that i have a fair idea what works and what dosnt with fighting bigger gunned opponents. Ohhh how i love to see abroad side ca! 

 

 I can relate with what you're saying about mm being only +/- 1. You can have a lot less influence being the bottom tier. But its not hopeless from t5 up... its been worse. 

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22 hours ago, JarofVegemite said:

The jump from Tier 4 to Tier 5 is brutal

Agreed.Especially for DD's and some CA's

 

I suspect many players simply don't understand basic game concepts

Agreed. Tunnel vision is a genuine thing.

 

OP ships are OP

Agreed. Being in a BB and facing a skilled Kamikaze is a nightmare.

 

The community is surprisingly good

Agreed. For the most part.

 

 

 

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The only thing that really gets me is cruisers with smokescreens. I often get into an ok position to start pummeling a Belfast or similar, then they just pop smoke, rendering me completely dead - with one simple keystroke.  

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On 9/20/2017 at 9:51 AM, JarofVegemite said:

The jump from Tier 4 to Tier 5 is brutal

 

Not as brutal as Kawachi facing a kongo or suffering from myogi's 6 barrels vs new mex's 12 barrels. But yes, the jump is brutal now, but, before it was brutal from the get-go so I think it's a bit better now, at the cost of T5s.

 

TBH, if only there was a proper tutorial system, the transition wouldn't be brutal at all. I introduced my friend to the game when I already had T8 and I just coached him on the game mechanics until he had about 500 games played. He had a lot of fun even at T5 and 6.

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Imo t5s are in a better position than t6s. Simply because, most t7 tech tree ships (yah I had to specify that) still tend to maintain the trends of previous tiers where tier 8 is a massive jump from t7. Ships become a lot faster and stealthier, lots of hit points and massive ranges, number of guns increases heavily along with calibers. Carriers become a lot stronger. While t6s aren't significantly better than t5s, they have to face a lot stronger ships than a tier 5 needs to face.

Edited by icy_phoenix

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No doubt there are a lot of hitches as you progress further up the line, but the problem as I see it is that the learning curve is linear up to tier four, then starts taking some massive jumps, which really challenges players to adjust the new meta each time.

 

Yes, I suppose you could argue players need to educate themselves on what to expect, but I honestly think that's probably asking a bit much for casual players who only want to muck around and have fun. Just jumping into a tier five game you don't know who does or does not have radar, it's range, it's duration etc, not to mention who has torps, their range, cool down etc etc. For experienced players who are used to the game, and aware of each change as its been implemented, this is less difficult, but it's a massive amount of information for a player to be expected to take in, especially since you are now facing ships from across three tiers, plus premiums.

 

It's overwhelming, and WG don't make that adjustment any easier for players. For a newcomer there is a lot to take in, and there is still a hell of a lot of stuff I don't really get at all (armour saturation etc). I think WG really need to focus on better introducing some of these concepts to newcomers, and, well, better communicating the importance of objectives wouldn't go to waste either :cap_fainting:

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15 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

Imo t5s are in a better position than t6s. Simply because, most t7 tech tree ships (yah I had to specify that) still tend to maintain the trends of previous tiers where tier 8 is a massive jump from t7. Ships become a lot faster and stealthier, lots of hit points and massive ranges, number of guns increases heavily along with calibers. Carriers become a lot stronger. While t6s aren't significantly better than t5s, they have to face a lot stronger ships than a tier 5 needs to face.

I tend to agree, T5 has a much better time than the T6 ships do. But new players won't be aware of that until they reach T6. Honestly I think newer players should be encouraged to grind out ships instead of using Free XP for any aspect of them. That way they get the maximum amount of practice out of each ship. They should also be encouraged to play a variety of different classes, so they find out what they're good at and get experience of what opposing ships are likely to do basically by learning how they play. Playing DDs and CL/CAs will improve how you play your BB (and vice versa) for instance. Perhaps they should start out with more port slots to help with this? Considering how many free port slots I've gotten over time I think it would be fair for newer players to start with a few more.

The game UI does give you most information about tech tree ships, you can look at the stats even if you don't own them, so if you get nailed by one you can look up it's capabilities without owning it. The missing information though is what consumables they carry, which I think should be displayed for this reason. Sure you can find out the information by searching the wiki or looking at youtube, but if the information were available in game it would be easier to find, especially for new players. Premiums can require searching for information externally if they aren't available for doubloons, they should also be shown somewhere in the tech tree, just with a note detailing how available or unavailable they are.

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4 hours ago, Sparcie said:


The game UI does give you most information about tech tree ships, you can look at the stats even if you don't own them, so if you get nailed by one you can look up it's capabilities without owning it. The missing information though is what consumables they carry, which I think should be displayed for this reason. Sure you can find out the information by searching the wiki or looking at youtube, but if the information were available in game it would be easier to find, especially for new players. Premiums can require searching for information externally if they aren't available for doubloons, they should also be shown somewhere in the tech tree, just with a note detailing how available or unavailable they are.

 

That is a good point. I dunno why they don't let you look at upgrades/modules on unpurchased ships, but the more information that is contained within the game itself the better I would have thought.

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