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Sparcie

Nelson not great?

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I recently got the Nelson, partly because she looks funky. Not had many battles in her yet.

I just had the most awful experience in her though... She got demolished 100-0 by a Kutuzov in less than a minute by a large volume of HE shells. Couldn't hit the cruiser in her smoke (blind firing) so couldn't do anything about it. The DDs on the flank basically suicided, and the team lemming trained hard (and I couldn't keep up) so it's not entirely Nelsons fault for being bad, but I think this illustrates quite well how weak the RN BBs can be. Even with the super heal they have zero ability to tank damage.

It's a new captain in her, so once I train up the fire prevention skills I'm sure she'll be better. What are others experiences of her good or bad? At T7 I think the Hood is probably the best of the RN BBs for me.

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sounds like you overextended and broadsided, used DCP and repair party too early

 

Don't charge in, kill a few peeps before going in. Use DCP after 2 fires or even 3 because you have insane heal, put heal flag on, wait for heal bar to extend to almost maximum before using it. Don't broadside

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Don't let a bad game with a less than ideal team dictate how you judge the ship. The ship is a genuinely good one, and I absolutely adore mine- despite being really worried about how it may play initially.

 

Every ship in the game will melt quickly when focused on so try and not read too much into that. The great thing about the Nelson is her ability to heal back all that fire damage, so the only ships you should generally avoid is any BB with a gun 381mm & up.

 

Once your captain levels up enough, give him concealment expert. It'll help you get away from those nasty Kutuzov's who rely on someone else to spot for them. And even though it's not very fast, you would rather be in a Nelson than a Colorado.

 

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34 minutes ago, Sparcie said:

I recently got the Nelson, partly because she looks funky. Not had many battles in her yet.

I just had the most awful experience in her though... She got demolished 100-0 by a Kutuzov in less than a minute by a large volume of HE shells. Couldn't hit the cruiser in her smoke (blind firing) so couldn't do anything about it. The DDs on the flank basically suicided, and the team lemming trained hard (and I couldn't keep up) so it's not entirely Nelsons fault for being bad, but I think this illustrates quite well how weak the RN BBs can be. Even with the super heal they have zero ability to tank damage.

It's a new captain in her, so once I train up the fire prevention skills I'm sure she'll be better. What are others experiences of her good or bad? At T7 I think the Hood is probably the best of the RN BBs for me.

Izumo looks funky also, but not that many people get exited to get her!

Sounds like you were out of position and overextended unable to disengage and had zero cover from islands. Because she's quite slow you need to be able to use terrain to your advantage to protect yourself from Kutuzov (and others) HE spam. If you are left as the only target in the open..... :cap_rambo:You will burn real good.

Having fire prevention on your capt is not a get out of jail free card if you do not know how to manage damage control and repair party. I find it hard to believe that your HP went from 100-0 in under a minute if you had both dama con and heal available. If you are in a situation where you know you messed up and it will take time to disengage you cannot insta hit dama con even when you are a towering inferno of multiple fires. You can use heal to negate damage but you hit dama con when there is little chance of getting set on fire again. ie: disengaged and not getting focused anymore.

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14 minutes ago, FenrirApalis said:

sounds like you overextended and broadsided, used DCP and repair party too early

 

Don't charge in, kill a few peeps before going in. Use DCP after 2 fires or even 3 because you have insane heal, put heal flag on, wait for heal bar to extend to almost maximum before using it. Don't broadside

Nope and nope... bow on, not that it matters as he was firing HE, I'm not a BB noob ... and had to use them he set 2 fires the first salvo, added another shortly after, then another 2 after I used the DCP. He must have set like 7 fires in that short space of time, along with what must have been some pretty good HE damage (IFHE?). In that situation the super heal was useless as it just prolonged the inevitable. Didn't charge in, basically got left behind by team mates lemming training the other flank, I couldn't really help being out of position, and the enemy was closing the distance pretty quick before they popped smoke... The team was really bad, they got steam rolled losing 7 ships to only one before running out of points.

Don't bother trying to run/kite in Nelson, her aft armour is very weak. If you are getting over run you basically just have to take it on the chin. She's too slow to get away anyhow. Concealment only helps if there are team mates preventing them getting close enough, wouldn't have really helped all that much.

Like the KGV she struggles to do damage with HE although she knocks heaps of modules out and seems to set more fires (probably just luck). AP seems ok. Still having trouble getting any damage out of her.

Actually Colorado is a pretty good BB, despite her slowness she can tank and has excellent guns and AA. I'd have no trouble picking her over Nelson.

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7 minutes ago, HobartAWD said:

Izumo looks funky also, but not that many people get exited to get her!

Sounds like you were out of position and overextended unable to disengage and had zero cover from islands. Because she's quite slow you need to be able to use terrain to your advantage to protect yourself from Kutuzov (and others) HE spam. If you are left as the only target in the open..... :cap_rambo:You will burn real good.

Having fire prevention on your capt is not a get out of jail free card if you do not know how to manage damage control and repair party. I find it hard to believe that your HP went from 100-0 in under a minute if you had both dama con and heal available. If you are in a situation where you know you messed up and it will take time to disengage you cannot insta hit dama con even when you are a towering inferno of multiple fires. You can use heal to negate damage but you hit dama con when there is little chance of getting set on fire again. ie: disengaged and not getting focused anymore.

I was barely out of spawn, the two destroyers on the flank basically suicided and the cruisers/BB joined a lemming train. Not being fast enough and the fact I would have had to expose my broadside/aft to join them meant there wasn't any positioning options that would get me out. If I was in the Hood for instance I'd have easily escaped. It doesn't help that she was bottom tier.

You have 3 fires burning you hit the DCP, otherwise you're dead in seconds when combined with the damage output he was getting with HE.

On the up side her AP can do quite well... scored a 22k salvo on a Gneisenau just now.

 

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I guess it isn't the ship being bad, but in that particular game, her weakness was demonstrated.

When the first version of Conqueror ST was datamined, I predicted that she would be ripped apart by cruisers. The 32mm hull including weather deck, low HP, large detection range(IIRC 19km?) means that RN CL heal problem will reappear on Conqueror, i.e. reserve HP pool being drained by large amount of penetrating hits.

The super heal is not as OP as it seem to be. It is simply people don't want opponents to get the lost HP back. It is discouraging when you got a big chunk of HP off an enemy ship and with a click that ship grows that HP back in a clearly visible rate, meanwhile people tend to forget how easy it was getting that chunk off the ship.

While the current release version of RN BB boasts high concealment in exchange of the previous version's incredible armament, thus making a less radical gameplay, they are still relying on destroyers to screen themselves from being constantly spotted by enemy DD. In your unfortunate case, your DD decide to forget about their team responsibility, so naturally the scenario gets back to the version one Conqueror where you get ripped apart by cruisers, and unlike that Conqueror, Nelson does not have exceptionally powerful and reliable armament to retaliate.

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When your team lemming trains, its not that bad to support them rather than go alone in a BB prone to IFHE spam. Just push hard with the train, cap the objective and transition quickly to another cap. Honestly when I'm being fired from smoke, I just stop firing to get undetected, load AP, pop spotter plane then shoot into smoke. It's not that hard to hit a Kutuzov in smoke. I always bag 2 hits or a citadel or two every volley and it's enough to drive him out of his smoke. If concealment does allow you to get close, push into his smoke and surprise him when the smoke dissipates. Otherwise kite away.

 i don't have Nelson but smoke firing is not that hard to deal with. It's not the ship. It's how you deal with it.

I noticed you had given a new captain for her. You do not need dedicated captains for premium ships.

Edited by KirstieBeau

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2 minutes ago, KirstieBeau said:

When your team lemming trains, its not that bad to support them rather than go alone in a BB prone to IFHE spam. Just push hard with the train, cap the objective and transition quickly to another cap. Honestly when I'm being fired from smoke, I just stop firing to get undetected, load AP, pop spotter plane then shoot into smoke. It's not that hard to hit a Kutuzov in smoke. I always bag 2 hits or a citadel or two every volley and it's enough to drive him out of his smoke. If concealment does allow you to get close, push into his smoke and surprise him when the smoke dissipates. Otherwise kite away.

 i don't have Nelson but smoke firing is not that hard to deal with. It's not the ship. It's how you deal with it.

Nelson does not have a spotter plane tho, and IIRC the ship isn't very accurate...

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4 minutes ago, HMS_Swiftsure_08 said:

Nelson does not have a spotter plane tho, and IIRC the ship isn't very accurate...

Ok my bad since I dont have Nelson. :cap_book: But firing into smoke is my favorite pasttime when no other viable targets were available

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2 hours ago, Sparcie said:

Nope and nope... bow on, not that it matters as he was firing HE, I'm not a BB noob ... and had to use them he set 2 fires the first salvo, added another shortly after, then another 2 after I used the DCP. He must have set like 7 fires in that short space of time, along with what must have been some pretty good HE damage (IFHE?). In that situation the super heal was useless as it just prolonged the inevitable. Didn't charge in, basically got left behind by team mates lemming training the other flank, I couldn't really help being out of position, and the enemy was closing the distance pretty quick before they popped smoke... The team was really bad, they got steam rolled losing 7 ships to only one before running out of points.

Don't bother trying to run/kite in Nelson, her aft armour is very weak. If you are getting over run you basically just have to take it on the chin. She's too slow to get away anyhow. Concealment only helps if there are team mates preventing them getting close enough, wouldn't have really helped all that much.

Like the KGV she struggles to do damage with HE although she knocks heaps of modules out and seems to set more fires (probably just luck). AP seems ok. Still having trouble getting any damage out of her.

Actually Colorado is a pretty good BB, despite her slowness she can tank and has excellent guns and AA. I'd have no trouble picking her over Nelson.

 

Don't just sit there, bow in to HE doesn't work. If you see a cruiser with a lof of DPM just start kiting away

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Like I said I know bow on doesn't affect HE damage. How do you propose you get away? Nelson is too slow to actually get away,and showing broadside or the stern results in taking stupid amounts of damage. Back up slowly at like 5-10Kts? She is super squishy, more than the other RN BBs, and with the exception of Hood they're fairly squishy. Ships like Kutuzov can shoot over many islands, you're only chance is concealment, which whilst better isn't as helpful as it sounds, if they have any idea where you are they can just close the distance and nail you anyway, and don't forget CVs.

It's a bit of a shame, she has great guns, but if you're spotted and anything more than about 10-15 degrees off bow on you take so much damage you don't last long, regardless of range or who's shooting at you.

Another example, team mates falling like flies and a Gniesenau charging towards me. Need to retreat but I can't turn because that would mean death via citadels from the side/rear. Manage to land some nice AP salvoes on the German and dodge the fish as he closes even more. But because of the exposed citadel and how fast the German is he was able to get enough of my side to sink me at half health in one shot. They don't really need that much of an angle off bow on to citadel you. At least I damaged him fairly badly.

She's not entirely bad at avoiding damage, as I bounce almost all the AP shells coming my way if close to directly bow on. No good for incoming HE obviously.

So really Nelson is a BB that is designed to not be shot at and concealment is likely going to be a mandatory skill to make her work at all. In my book that means she's a poor BB, after all one role a BB is expected to perform is tank damage and she can't do it, she also can't lead a push on a flank (not that I've tried). The super heal is worthless when you take so much damage so quickly. Also you rely on team mates to hold the enemy far enough away, once they're dead or have run away you're kinda boned no matter what you do.

I don't think she's bad as in awful, although she is clearly very weak in terms of protection, but she's not really good either except in very specific circumstances where she works ok.

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I'm not overly impressed with the whole RN line. but it's a cruiser style of play and i have to admit it's not my strong point. i find the monarch particularly weak and i might freexp out of it with the nagato. it ends up in tier10 matches about 60 percent of the time, and can't even really compete with other T8 bb's let alone a yamato. this might also be that tier8 is basically a waste of time with the current MM system and i probably should have known that from my experience with a bismarck. i'm hoping the lion is a bit better but i expect it won't be, in that case i will freexp to the tier 10 to finally find out what these "OP POWERHOUSES OF FIRE" are all about, because like i say, i haven't found one decent ship in the line as yet.

Edited by fuzzjunky

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The RNBB line is unique in that its damage repair can be the difference between life and death.   Blow your repair and damage early and you are a goner.     Let yourself soak enough damage and then disengage to uitlise the huge repair potential is the key to the line.  People became focused on its HE and seem to forget this characteristic of the ships.   

It should also be noted that the increase in performance from tier to tier is not linear, but this is also the case with other ship lines (Simply put, there may be a couple of slight duds in the line)

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The super heal is certainly useful, keeps you in the game longer, and I am tripping it when I think I'm getting the max HP increase I can. I can manage stuff like that just fine. At the same time I think WG have added the super heal to mask the absolutely terribad survivability of this ship. About the only kind of incoming fire it can deal with is AP by bouncing the shells (by angling), otherwise it takes at least full penetration damage at every other angle regardless of ammo choice.

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nope nope nope

dont u ever bow on with Nelly

u can't bow on with nelly

u can't broadside with nelly

then how u should positioning ur self? think about it....

 

and also. don't go on to the spotlight too often. she can't take a beating.

 

Nelly like to eat damage like eating a desert. :cap_popcorn::cap_tea:

 

anything else from her is great

decent speed decent turning

she can wiggle well. 

all 3 turrets faced front mean u can focuss all gun easier when whiching target at other side

great accuracy. with decent penetration power.

and dont forget that absurb heal

Edited by ReNation

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8 hours ago, Sparcie said:

Like I said I know bow on doesn't affect HE damage. How do you propose you get away? Nelson is too slow to actually get away,and showing broadside or the stern results in taking stupid amounts of damage. Back up slowly at like 5-10Kts? She is super squishy, more than the other RN BBs, and with the exception of Hood they're fairly squishy. Ships like Kutuzov can shoot over many islands, you're only chance is concealment, which whilst better isn't as helpful as it sounds, if they have any idea where you are they can just close the distance and nail you anyway, and don't forget CVs.

You turn around and you sail away.  You're probably going to die anyway in the situation you described, so the only way you'll have a chance is to turn around.

Having said that - you'd already made the mistake that led to your death minutes before that - you put yourself in that situation because you didn't see it coming.  So don't look at what you can do when you're in that situation, look at what you can do to not actually be there in the first place.  Positioning is one of the two key skills for a BB captain.

Also, they apparently wanted to put Nelson into the regular tech tree but decided not to because it plays quite differently. Hence it's a premium now. Nelson is harder to play well than the regular RN BB line (as is every other ship in the game! :Smile-_tongue:  ), but if you play to it's strengths and minimise it's rather obvious weaknesses then the ship is close to best in tier.  Knowing how to angle effectively in Nelson doesn't just increase your effectiveness like in other BB's - it's a necessity to actually survive long enough to make a decent contribution.

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32 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

You turn around and you sail away.  You're probably going to die anyway in the situation you described, so the only way you'll have a chance is to turn around.

Having said that - you'd already made the mistake that led to your death minutes before that - you put yourself in that situation because you didn't see it coming.  So don't look at what you can do when you're in that situation, look at what you can do to not actually be there in the first place.  Positioning is one of the two key skills for a BB captain.

Also, they apparently wanted to put Nelson into the regular tech tree but decided not to because it plays quite differently. Hence it's a premium now. Nelson is harder to play well than the regular RN BB line (as is every other ship in the game! :Smile-_tongue:  ), but if you play to it's strengths and minimise it's rather obvious weaknesses then the ship is close to best in tier.  Knowing how to angle effectively in Nelson doesn't just increase your effectiveness like in other BB's - it's a necessity to actually survive long enough to make a decent contribution.

Sorry you can't predict that two DDs on your flank feed the enemy their souls and the cruisers would run after it happens. Up til that point I figured I was supporting them, I wasn't even that close.

You guys are talking to me like I'm a noob, I'm not, I can manage to contribute in plenty of BBs, sure I'm no unicum, but I know a bit about what I'm doing. I can manage to position myself the problem in that case was two fold. The ship has no speed and it's super vulnerable to all sides except a small angle at the bow and that only protects against AP. Do you think I didn't know to run? I did try to run, but it was just as bad, if not worse than standing and fighting. In fact I think running may have been my biggest mistake, as I was basically overrun and dead anyway. I'd barely had a chance to move far from spawn, I can hardly be blamed for where I was spawned or for the fact the entire team allowed themselves to be steam rolled.

@ReNation So sounds like you can't be seen. Because if you are anyone can focus you down. well that gives you about 4km zone (~14km to max range) to keep the enemies in, sounds easy, but they go generally at least 6 knots faster and any ship or plane close enough will ruin that. Heck add in concealment expert and it's not much better at 12.8km concealment. If you're too far away you got nothing to shoot at, if you're close enough to shoot, a DD or plane will make sure you're seen.

You guys might be able to farm damage/kills in her (and eventually when I get a grip on her I probably will) but that doesn't make her a good BB. She is poor in the sense that she cannot fill any role of an active BB at all. She is a BB purposefully designed to camp and snipe and to punish captains who try not to be passive. If you don't want BBs being passive then why design one whose only feasible play style is passive.

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