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KirstieBeau

The King does not care about uptiering.

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1 minute ago, drakon233 said:

farms shitton of damage, lose

 

Yep. That's the way it goes for a BB noob. :Smile_teethhappy:   I wonder how unicum BB mains damage count will be on the current state of this ship.

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Just get on with it & say "King George V is OP"

:etc_red_button:

then we can have another useless rant filled thread, filled with "reasons" & "expert OPINIONS" from "experts", of why it should be nerfed, or banned etc etc...

 

Then others can get into stat bashing, comparing rates against other ships, etc etc.....

 

I'm sure everyone wants a new bandwagon to jump on to by now, its been relatively quiet recently.

 

I'll just sit back here & wait.

:cap_tea:

Ordrazz

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I mean, the Brit BB damage typically comes from fire, and that is 100% repairable (?), AP might give you pen of with barely anything can be repaired, so damage count isn't really accurate.

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12 hours ago, FishyPower said:

I mean, the Brit BB damage typically comes from fire, and that is 100% repairable (?), AP might give you pen of with barely anything can be repaired, so damage count isn't really accurate.

 

You are wrong. That fire damage is obviously a good part (but every fire burns for same amount of damage regardless of source ship class/nation), but most damage comes from their incredible HE alpha damage (check the other comparison threads). You cannot repair that 100% because those are penetration damage and not burn damage.. AP damage is also repairable by a good margin as long as that is not a citadel hit.

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15 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

 

You are wrong. That fire damage is obviously a good part (but every fire burns for same amount of damage regardless of source ship class/nation), but most damage comes from their incredible HE alpha damage (check the other comparison threads). You cannot repair that 100% because those are penetration damage and not burn damage.. AP damage is also repairable by a good margin as long as that is not a citadel hit.

 

Yeah, I'm getting 10k HE salvos despite angling in my Bismarck... Not fun XD

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It's ridiculously OP, and also absurdly easy to play.  KGV is as much the definition of the RN BB line as Conqueror.

On 9/11/2017 at 1:20 AM, drakon233 said:

farms shitton of damage, lose

I agree with this - had 90% win rate in the KGV after 12 games - then mentioned that in a thread as a meagre illustration of how OP it was.  Karma noticed and I lost the next six games in a row in it!  Still topped xp on almost all of them though - you really have to be trying hard to have a bad game in it.

 

Spoiler

 

Just get on with it & say "King George V is OP"

:etc_red_button:

then we can have another useless rant filled thread, filled with "reasons" & "expert OPINIONS" from "experts", of why it should be nerfed, or banned etc etc...

 

Then others can get into stat bashing, comparing rates against other ships, etc etc.....

 

I'm sure everyone wants a new bandwagon to jump on to by now, its been relatively quiet recently.

 

I'll just sit back here & wait.

:cap_tea:

Ordrazz

 

 

I know it's tough to consistently defend BB's against the never ending waves of criticism, but I really feel you're just phoning it in now.  You can't even be bothered approaching a point to argue here.

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1 hour ago, Moggytwo said:

I know it's tough to consistently defend BB's against the never ending waves of criticism, but I really feel you're just phoning it in now.  You can't even be bothered approaching a point to argue here.

 

since when has he ever bothered?

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6 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

It's ridiculously OP, and also absurdly easy to play.  KGV is as much the definition of the RN BB line as Conqueror.

I agree with this - had 90% win rate in the KGV after 12 games - then mentioned that in a thread as a meagre illustration of how OP it was.  Karma noticed and I lost the next six games in a row in it!  Still topped xp on almost all of them though - you really have to be trying hard to have a bad game in it.

 

 

I guess one obvious contributing factor for epic performance (ofc the ships are no brainier) when we first played IJN / USN BBs, we were not as experienced as we are right now. All of us definitely got better at it more or less.

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5 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

 

I guess one obvious contributing factor for epic performance (ofc the ships are no brainier) when we first played IJN / USN BBs, we were not as experienced as we are right now. All of us definitely got better at it more or less.

 

This would be the more likely answer, I hadn't even considered this, thank you... +1

 

Of course, if you are reasonable to good player, you wouldn't necessarily take on KGV head on in a lower ship anyway, you would merely kite it, like I do, & allow/help other players focus it down by your kiting, or avoid it if you are so worried...

 

Whining about it on the forums won't do anything except tick people off, knowing about it & dealing with it is the better choice.

The same goes for other so called "OP" ships.

 

Ordrazz

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7 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

I guess one obvious contributing factor for epic performance (ofc the ships are no brainier) when we first played IJN / USN BBs, we were not as experienced as we are right now. All of us definitely got better at it more or less.

This is accounted for by looking at recent stats.  When comparing ship stats, you should only compare solo and recent (1 or 2 weeks) to get the best idea of a comparison.  Even then the data is skewed with new lines, especially at the high tiers because generally the people that free xp or go up the tiers very quickly are better players than the average, which will push up a ships stats.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, I'm just saying you can compensate for that.  :Smile_Default:

Spoiler

 

This would be the more likely answer, I hadn't even considered this, thank you... +1

 

Of course, if you are reasonable to good player, you wouldn't necessarily take on KGV head on in a lower ship anyway, you would merely kite it, like I do, & allow/help other players focus it down by your kiting, or avoid it if you are so worried...

 

Whining about it on the forums won't do anything except tick people off, knowing about it & dealing with it is the better choice.

The same goes for other so called "OP" ships.

 

Ordrazz

 

 

I agree that there are strats you can do to minimise the effect of any OP ship.  However you shouldn't really just accept poor balance - understand that any game will never be perfectly balanced, but that it should always be the ideal that is worked towards.

Also, 'whining' is feedback, and helps to let WG now how the player base feels about aspects of the game.  Often they change the things complained about, and so it has a positive influence on the game - most of the time.  It's important to be constructive though (as most are).

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I just got her, and whilst she starts fires and does good HE damage she is squishy compared to the other T7 BBs. Add to this you are basically forced to use HE because her AP can't over match anything at all, whilst anyone at T7 (except Scharnhorst) can over match her. Her AP is so poor I would say it doesn't perform as well as even the New Mexico AP does. She's also not as accurate as the QE before her. Basically I think they gave her the strong HE to make up for AP and poorer dispersion. The only targets she can use AP on are cruisers essentially. They might have put too much fire chance or alpha on the HE, but it's not really OP, the glaring weaknesses are too large.

Just because you've done well in it or someone dared to beat you in it does not make it OP.

 

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How do you account for a the nubs who just spam he all the time, in your equations?  Look at fuso players for example, mostly all they do is spam HE from their camping positions at the back, & even when you see them up close, its HE all the way... Similar to Kongos,...

 

Its understandable for Scharnhorsts & Dunkerque's, because they have a much smaller caliber than most others at tier 6 & 7, & if you look at it, so does KGV at t7.... So they compensated it by giving it a higher fire chance...

 

I think its a borderline t7 anyway, might be more comfortable in t6, & I think the same problem is for Nelson, as it has the bigger guns, but its slow speed & lack of rear mains makes it a problem, esp when facing t8-9 ships... Probably that's why its got an insane heal.

 

IMO It may have been better to put Vanguard in at t7, & put the N3 class  in,  & made KGV a premium instead, like Scharnhorst... Or make Nelson a ultra special rare ship..

 

But its Here now, so I just adjust to it as best I can.

 

Ordrazz

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10 minutes ago, Ordrazz said:

How do you account for a the nubs who just spam he all the time, in your equations?  Look at fuso players for example, mostly all they do is spam HE from their camping positions at the back, & even when you see them up close, its HE all the way... Similar to Kongos,...

 

Its understandable for Scharnhorsts & Dunkerque's, because they have a much smaller caliber than most others at tier 6 & 7, & if you look at it, so does KGV at t7.... So they compensated it by giving it a higher fire chance...

 

I think its a borderline t7 anyway, might be more comfortable in t6, & I think the same problem is for Nelson, as it has the bigger guns, but its slow speed & lack of rear mains makes it a problem, esp when facing t8-9 ships... Probably that's why its got an insane heal.

 

IMO It may have been better to put Vanguard in at t7, & put the N3 class  in,  & made KGV a premium instead, like Scharnhorst... Or make Nelson a ultra special rare ship..

 

But its Here now, so I just adjust to it as best I can.

 

Ordrazz

Spamming HE is not noobish.  There are plenty of players that ranked out in the Fuso last season by firing mostly HE.  Like any ship, knowing when to use HE or AP is one of the keys to getting the most out of it.  In most BB's, AP is better most of the time.  In some BB's, and Fuso is one of them, you are often better using HE at range and then switching to AP only when you predict that a ship will present a medium to close range broadside.

Your reality is not lining up with what the stats say if you think that KGV is a borderline T7.  It is first on win rate and damage done for T7 BB's (both solo and div), and note that it has the most battles played of any T7 BB in the last week, so that will provide a very thorough cross section of player skills.  The average damage done is a phenomenal 40% more than the best non-RN T7 BB, the Scharnhorst (and we all know how good that ship is). There's an excellent chance that WG are lining it up for nerfs in the next month or two.

KGV quite simply is the best T7 BB.  This isn't necessarily a bad thing - after all something has to be - except that it is so far ahead of it's rivals, and it does it while being by far the easiest to play T7 BB.  You don't have to know where to aim, when to fire; you just pick an enemy ship and blap.  That is the worst part about it (and the whole line), it should not be so easy to play.

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I think it's a bit soon to be comparing stats. The player base hasn't learned how to deal with them (they can be dealt with). They haven't been played all that much compared to the others.  The total battles for KGV and Nelson for instance don't even amount to half of those fought in HMS Hood, and that's a relatively new premium not played as much as more popular ships. The short term stats do show a difference, but you can't argue that the population playing the ships is equal. They are still new, more skilled players will have them first, it will take a while before the general population has them.

I'd say from the numbers much of the population has the earlier ships such as Iron Duke, Orion and of course Bellerophon, but at the Queen Elizabeth the number of battles drops off significantly. I suspect only more dedicated players have anything past Iron Duke and Queen Elizabeth, and the stats reflect that. It takes time to grind through these line remember. Especially if you're not as skilled and aren't earning high XP per battle. I'd argue most people posting here are probably a more dedicated and skilled player, and thus should be able to do well in new ships without the burden of learning on the ships stats.

I'd like to point out that Iron Duke (and Orion) probably have the most "OP" HE for their tier anywhere in the line, as good as T10 ships in fact, yet both of those ships do not have better win rates than their peers and marginally better damage. These ships are where most of the population is playing the UK line at the moment. They will probably need their HE tweaked a bit (like most of the line), but they aren't any where near as OP as you're making out.

Using HE on a BB is not a new thing, other BBs that commonly use HE aren't regarded as OP. Is it just the fact that they're easier to play that offends you guys, an argument that used to be made about the German BBs quite a bit, and whilst people ranted about them being OP, they didn't end up with significantly better stats. Are they really that much easier to play? I didn't think Queen Elizabeth was easier.

Similar things happened when other lines/premiums come out. They look really OP in stats for a while, and then diminish over time.

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2 hours ago, Sparcie said:

I think it's a bit soon to be comparing stats. The player base hasn't learned how to deal with them (they can be dealt with). They haven't been played all that much compared to the others.  The total battles for KGV and Nelson for instance don't even amount to half of those fought in HMS Hood, and that's a relatively new premium not played as much as more popular ships. The short term stats do show a difference, but you can't argue that the population playing the ships is equal. They are still new, more skilled players will have them first, it will take a while before the general population has them.

I'd say from the numbers much of the population has the earlier ships such as Iron Duke, Orion and of course Bellerophon, but at the Queen Elizabeth the number of battles drops off significantly. I suspect only more dedicated players have anything past Iron Duke and Queen Elizabeth, and the stats reflect that. It takes time to grind through these line remember. Especially if you're not as skilled and aren't earning high XP per battle. I'd argue most people posting here are probably a more dedicated and skilled player, and thus should be able to do well in new ships without the burden of learning on the ships stats.

I'd like to point out that Iron Duke (and Orion) probably have the most "OP" HE for their tier anywhere in the line, as good as T10 ships in fact, yet both of those ships do not have better win rates than their peers and marginally better damage. These ships are where most of the population is playing the UK line at the moment. They will probably need their HE tweaked a bit (like most of the line), but they aren't any where near as OP as you're making out.

Using HE on a BB is not a new thing, other BBs that commonly use HE aren't regarded as OP. Is it just the fact that they're easier to play that offends you guys, an argument that used to be made about the German BBs quite a bit, and whilst people ranted about them being OP, they didn't end up with significantly better stats. Are they really that much easier to play? I didn't think Queen Elizabeth was easier.

Similar things happened when other lines/premiums come out. They look really OP in stats for a while, and then diminish over time.

 

I agree with this... Its far too early to do stat bashing about it, because as sparcie says, because the ship is do new, every man & his dog will be having one, trying it out, & they will be neglecting the regular (& premiums) ships they normally play... & quite rightly, stats won't mean anything, because the ships have only been out, what 2weeks?  Of course they are going to be popular, but the stats won't line up with say, Colorado, because its been out from the year dot. , with hundreds of thousands of more battles played.

 

3 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

Spamming HE is not noobish.  There are plenty of players that ranked out in the Fuso last season by firing mostly HE.  Like any ship, knowing when to use HE or AP is one of the keys to getting the most out of it.  In most BB's, AP is better most of the time.  In some BB's, and Fuso is one of them, you are often better using HE at range and then switching to AP only when you predict that a ship will present a medium to close range broadside.

Your reality is not lining up with what the stats say if you think that KGV is a borderline T7.  It is first on win rate and damage done for T7 BB's (both solo and div), and note that it has the most battles played of any T7 BB in the last week, so that will provide a very thorough cross section of player skills.  The average damage done is a phenomenal 40% more than the best non-RN T7 BB, the Scharnhorst (and we all know how good that ship is). There's an excellent chance that WG are lining it up for nerfs in the next month or two.

KGV quite simply is the best T7 BB.  This isn't necessarily a bad thing - after all something has to be - except that it is so far ahead of it's rivals, and it does it while being by far the easiest to play T7 BB.  You don't have to know where to aim, when to fire; you just pick an enemy ship and blap.  That is the worst part about it (and the whole line), it should not be so easy to play.

 

 

When I say nub, I'm not meaning noob... I'm meaning the regular Joe blows, like the bulk of the unthinking population..

 

As for fuso, well I don't have a fuso, so all I can comment on is what I see.... I have Mutsu, which is similar, but I use AP ten times more than HE, despite its whacky dispersion...

But I do know that there are a lot of players out there that don't know about AP at all, & they thought HE was the only shell type...

 

& I have yet to discover KGVs capabilities, as I'm still grinding Orion, so my comments are based on my observations, & my instinct for playing BB.. 

I do know they burn you... So one needs to be aware at all times.. But they are quite good to thump with a Tirpitz or Bismarck.

 

When I get one, I would imagine it would play similar to Scharnhorst, with a tiny Tirpitz flavor to it... Please correct me if my initial assessment is wrong....:Smile_Default:

 

Ordrazz

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4 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

This is accounted for by looking at recent stats.  When comparing ship stats, you should only compare solo and recent (1 or 2 weeks) to get the best idea of a comparison.  Even then the data is skewed with new lines, especially at the high tiers because generally the people that free xp or go up the tiers very quickly are better players than the average, which will push up a ships stats.

 

I think in a bit of different way. I would go for ship stats in last 2 weeks, like you said, but instead of solo play, I would look into the stats of top 50% players. The bottom 50% player base aren't really interested in the game and hence should not be taken into consideration on balance issues. Again, why not solo plays only? Because at least for Asia, most purples play in divisions. They are the ones who can abuse / utilize ship's true potential properly. So it is not right to distinguish between solo and division play. Of course you can put some kind of contributing co-efficient for solo-2man-3man divs games. But just taking the solo will leave out most of the top players who know better than average. Again, solo plays tend to have lower winrate but higher damage etc, and division plays tend to have lower other stats but very high winrate. so you can even zone out on what you look for from solo or divs.

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