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FenrirApalis

Des Moines survivability

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Hello everyone, it's been quite a while since I made a post on the forums :3

 

Quick note before I start: No I am not saying the Des Moines is underpowered, it is powerful I am just saying it can use some help.

 

Now that the new HMS battleships are arriving, having superb concealment at high tiers as one of their traits makes me feel a bit... Underequipped and under-gunned. Pretty much the entire USN Cruiser line suffers from one flaw, which is having little armour on their broadsides, making it impossible to angle and bounce shells from battleships of equal tier. At lower tiers where battleships have shotgun dispersion and you have a very slim profile, that is not such a massive issue. But as the tiers get higher and your manoeuvrability reduces, this start to become a problem. Everyone who looks at the armour profiles of ships will see that the Baltimore and Des Moines both have 27mm armour on the entire hull of the ship (Des Moines having 30mm deck), the citadel protection being the only exception at 152mm. This is quite a problem when facing battleships armed with 386.1mm and larger calibre guns as they will overmatch you almost everywhere they hit. Angling against battleships at close range is pretty much useless since you won't have the ability to bounce. Back to the superb concealment problem raised by the HMS battleships. USN cruisers do not have the best concealment, Des Moines can only have 0.9km better detection range than the Conquerer when running a full concealment build, together with 12 guns and extreme heal, if a Des Moines or Baltimore run into one it can only pray to RNGesus. Angling is useless and 0.9km is not enough time to react, the rudder shift combined with the armour just won't leave the two cruisers a chance.

 

A few months back when the Henri IV was introduced to the game it was deemed weak in survivability because of the 25mm side armour being able to be easily overmatched by battleship guns and easily prone to IFHE destroyer HE shells. Why can't they give the same treatment to the Des Moines? I know it is not a bad performing ship but if you look at the statistics it has one of the worse survivability rates.

 

Please, give the Des Moines (possibly Baltimore too) 30mm side armour, maybe even consider dropping her concealment range down a bit at least (just like what they did with the Pensacola).

 

Thanks for your time

 

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[MEGA]
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the problem with that is how the DM was made to be played, like the Minotaur these two ships excel at massive bursts of damage to anything and everything that has the misforune to come into it's area of attack, in essence it's exchangeing surivalbiity for stupidly powerful DMP bursts, if you made the DM even better at suriving then it's "burst DPM" would become fullout dakka that makes ships like the ZAO and HI-V cry and it's going to be even harder to assault a position that a DM is defending(which is already stupidly hard already)

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Nerfing the reload back to 6 seconds and buff the underwater citadel armour to 30mm would be good. Would reduce the dpm in exchange for actually being able to angle without bs citadels through the side.

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Alpha Tester
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yeah

the problem with DM is the low survivability especially when focus fired (means, melt faster then the most)

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12 hours ago, drakon233 said:

the problem with that is how the DM was made to be played, like the Minotaur these two ships excel at massive bursts of damage to anything and everything that has the misforune to come into it's area of attack, in essence it's exchangeing surivalbiity for stupidly powerful DMP bursts, if you made the DM even better at suriving then it's "burst DPM" would become fullout dakka that makes ships like the ZAO and HI-V cry and it's going to be even harder to assault a position that a DM is defending(which is already stupidly hard already)

 

Minotaur has greater concealment, torpedoes and smoke. DM doesn't have those

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2 minutes ago, FenrirApalis said:

Minotaur has greater concealment, torpedoes and smoke. DM doesn't have those

mino is too dependent on its smoke and positioning, not to mention the armor is easily pennable by even smaller caliber AP shells, the DM still gets decent bowtanking abilities and a much bigger effective kill range than the mino

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DM (in my opinion <play HB and HiV)

+fast RoF

+tankiest bow (27mm)

+OP aa and Radar :v

-Low HP

-bad gun traverse

-floatable citadel farming :v

edit: come check in WoWs launcher DM have 27mm sry 

Edited by Ice_12345

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22 minutes ago, FenrirApalis said:

Minotaur has greater concealment, torpedoes and smoke. DM doesn't have those

I citadelled mino with a Harekaze armed with US 127mm , no the armor on DM do make a difference against anything not a BB coming at you. They will have to spam HE at you , which you can throw back 2 volleys for every 1 they fired.

DM and mino both love to hug mama island though. Cant lived without it.

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1 minute ago, Ice_12345 said:

DM (in my opinion <play HB and HiV)

+fast RoF

+tankiest bow (30mm)

+OP aa and Radar :v

-Low HP

-bad gun traverse

-floatable citadel farming :v

 

DM doesn't have 30mm bow

no cruiser does

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3 minutes ago, FenrirApalis said:

DM doesn't have 30mm bow

no cruiser does

lemme check
 

ok my bad also

 

Edited by Ice_12345

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2 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

It has 27mm of bow, FYI , Zao has 30mm last i recalled

zao have 25mm

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Super Tester
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HELL NO, i have seen Des Memes tank a lot of damage from several close range battleships and then proceeded to beat them to death with AP, depending on how its used its a monster, and the last thing i wanna see is this monster with more durability

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17 hours ago, daTungsten said:

HELL NO, i have seen Des Memes tank a lot of damage from several close range battleships and then proceeded to beat them to death with AP, depending on how its used its a monster, and the last thing i wanna see is this monster with more durability

 

those BBs must have been crap at aiming. Unless they were Bismarcks and Tirpitzs since they have 380mm guns

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2 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

I never played DM (Played a lot against it). Like they say, the angle that lets you fire your 3rd turret will also make you eat cit hits.

bow in doesn't work either :/ but when Zao and Hinden gives some angle they just bounce everything

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42 minutes ago, FenrirApalis said:

bow in doesn't work either :/ but when Zao and Hinden gives some angle they just bounce everything

Apparently the hull shape is the main cause

Also i once shoot her in the stern and get citadel

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I agree. i once one shotted by a yammy bow in. Also after the smoke nerf, DM can't even help contest cap at open water because increased concealment. the concealment buff maybe help DM to help DDs contest cap.

Edited by Chilrend

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1 hour ago, FenrirApalis said:

those BBs must have been crap at aiming. Unless they were Bismarcks and Tirpitzs since they have 380mm guns

actually it was me in a Misery and a Bismark backed up by an Atago and a FDG who joined the fight late

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well, the problem were more of the recent battleship citadel buff

 

when you got caught by battleship at close range, you are supposed to be dead

but when they become arrogant and exposing broadside, you can punish them too

this give some parity factor for cruiser, especialy like DM that have ridiculus firepower

but now Battleship have deep underwater citadel, and the tip of scale were heavily favor BB even if they made bad play

 

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13 hours ago, Harpoon01 said:

Apparently the hull shape is the main cause

Also i once shoot her in the stern and get citadel

 

Yah I dont know why US CA/CLs have flat sides. Not even a bit sloped. Clearly not the best design as germans :P

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