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EvyL

O-class battlecruiser

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Super Tester
1,677 posts

Been a long while since I've badposted so let me lump some bits for battlecruisers.

 

You already know that whole bit on the Naval Treaty that severely gimped on how to battleship and also technically counts battlecruisers as such ships (the reason why is that you could get around that treaty with "oh this? 'tis a battlecruiser so its fairly legit yo" and that would simply not do. London 1 and London 2 kinda solved the problem by setting in the tonnage requirements but it kinda didnt work since Italy ragequitted, Germany deemed the entire treaty + Versailles bullshit and already way past and Japan also ragequitted, leaving the UK and the US the only signatories that did try to observe the treaty itself. dont blame them for shitty ships like KGV because they exactly didnt have time to stretch their wings for hax designs like Lion) but that didnt mean the concept died. Germany wanted to replace the panzerschiffe they had because it didnt exactly meet what they wanted although Graf Spee was a gigantic sea scum so hard for that matter and decided for plans to supplant the navy in the Z plan.

 

I PRESENT TO YOU THE O-CLASS BATTLECRUISER

 

okreuz2.thumb.JPG.81eba93670a47271b7fc8cf295fcc1a0.JPG

 

GLORIOUS BATTLECRUISER

 

note: as much as people say the Scharnhorst twins were battlecruisers because right of gun, NO. the twins are, by right of keel, BATTLESHIPS so yeah.

 

Plan Z was envisioned to rearm the living shit out of the German Navy without giving a damn to the Treaty of Versailles anymore because it has been deemed null and void and so they planned for such prospects for rearming, part of the plans were the battlecruisers. Now in this time, the only battlecruisers that were still in the water were Hood and the Renown twins and naval planners already know that the battlecruiser is going to be the evolutionary lynchpin of the battleship, even if it aint exactly built as such, and while looking at the combat triangle in terms of battlecruisers in regards to offense, protection and speed, normally the Brits favored their battlecruisers to hit hard and move fast whereas the Germans opted to keep their ships afloat longer and respond in kind, this wasn't the case for these battlecruisers as they followed the offense + speed concept that made the British quite fast in creating a rapid action force without committing actual battleships, only this time these lumpy ships could help the subs in surface trolling and general sea scumbaggery by hitting convoys and getting away with it.

 

Now lessee their technical stuff:

 

Stuff to be crammed into these lumpy battlecruisers were six 381/15 inch guns that should be the same guns Bismarck and Tirpitz used derived from the Bayern barrel in dual mounts in AB-X configuration, some 6 inch guns, some 10.5's, a set of 37mm's and a bunch of 20mm's coupled with torpedo tubes likely packing the G7a T1 and the ship was protected with about 8 inches of belt, 3 inches of belt, 8.5 inches of turret and 2 inches of torpedo protection with the ship being projected to run at 33-35 kts with a new engine layout for long range scumbaggery... wait dafuq? THATS TOO LIGHTLY ARMORED. Derfflinger would cry at this and that thing, given enough love and had it survive Scapa Flow, could probably run at 30 kts AND be crammed with best hax. AND THIS IS SAYING THAT RENOWN WITH HER REFIT HAD NEARLY 10 INCHES OF ARMOR GODDAMN IT PLANNERS.

 

okreuz1.jpg.f627aa132db82f11eb46374674d2dff9.jpg

 

BEHOALD, SCALE MODEL (although unpainted) GLORY! The company is Navis if you wish to acquire it

 

With armor that thin you might as well flippin kite the enemy and pray you dont get hit because this freaky thing can NOT take damage at any cost and given that its prospected to be absurdly fast, its going to run away quite often while presenting a good offensive option... although this thing skulking around will probably scare the living shit out of merchant marines when it appears out of nowhere and starts blasting the living crap out of your shipbros and then getting the hell out of dodge after wreaking havoc on a number on your convoy before a reaction force responds to your cries of "R R R R R R R" signal telegraphs (as The Chieftain had noted in Graf Spee's vid, rapidly tapping "R" means a raider has appeared). Well the three shipyards in Germany didnt keel em because of res allocation sent to moar u-boats because Doenitz, who was a u-boat commander before, convinced high command that playing pin the depth charge with the u-boat is viable since sub cheesing is a legit tactic albeit frowned upon in WW1 and groups of them can wolfpack the living hell out of a convoy undetected (well as ASDIC was being developed, you can imagine the levels of pants soiling when they heard a bunch of em spam torps just to whack the convoy when destroyers weren't sent as escorts with them) and strike another day whereas surface ships have a chance to be singled out and destroyed, the ships didnt happen even though their plans were complete.

 

okreuz5.jpg.59cb7b82f6a60a14af299dbbe78c8744.jpg

 

lolspecs it may be, but you can't deny the ship is one lovely battlecruiser on the levels of Mackensen and Ersatz Yorck as well as the tried and true Derfflingers

 

In-game wise, she's going to be a really strange capital ship: while her guns effectively slate her as a battleship, she can't perform heavy battleship duties such as line fighting and getting close despite packing torpedoes unlike the Twins and Tirpitz, but to offset that, she'll likely be more accurate than any German due to the fact that she's basically a ranged fighter, only getting close enough when the situation demands for it. expected to be citadeled... A LOT. No seriously, 8 inches of belt means you have enough armor to protect yourself from cruisers and this isn't taking into account that Graf Spee has 283mm guns. You have the offensive power of a Gneisenau and given that she's a battlecruiser, expect to wait a lot for the right "SURPRISE MOTHERF-" salvos that either kill cruisers outright or severely damage battleships before you run away like a coward. I can put her as tier 6 but with her AA suite, its gonna be a problem when carriers find you as food. She'll likely have piss poor turn radius and a decent rudder shift although her guns need to be fast as they're quite light... despite packing big guns in a thinly armored turret. Expect 18km+ range for a tier 6 'battleship' and decent concealment in order for surprise uppercuts and getting away with it lest you risk lolcitadels. A fitting name would be 'Oldendorff' but nobody in German military history afaik had a surname like that and legendary people were hard to get as namesakes for battlecruisers so the closest would be Erich Ludendorff who was a notable armed forces commander and regards to stuff that should not be expanded here.

 

Derp.exe must be rebooted

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Super Tester
1,677 posts

Thing is, the Nurnberg in both iterations can run away while shooting at you and disappear as fast, THIS WONT AS EASILY

 

The armor thickness makes me cringe and there's no turtleback in its internal armor layout afaik

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Member
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2,045 battles

Anything that fell under plan Z really intrigued me, so naturally so does this. But I play prinz eugen so I already don't make sense lol. All in all, awesome write up

Felix

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This ship doesn't fit in a German BB line (when that happens). Too fast, too thinly protected. The only example of "true battlecruiser" that the German had ever built/designed. Kiter? Yes. Tank? You'll die against a good-enough Graf Spee in a brawl.

From my pals who are deeply interested in naval stuffs, this ship has a turtleback armor (in true German capital ship fashion). Can probably tank a bit. Tank against non-big gun cruisers, that is. Still, this thing was mocked as “Ohne Panzer Quatsch” ("without armor nonsense").

Tier 7 premium. Glass cannon version of Gneisenau. If WG want to be generous, a reward ship in similar fashion to the Dude of Yokes back in New Year's campaign. Probably buff the accuracy a bit. Even brawling in a Gnei couldn't make her guns any more accurate.

 

On 8/25/2017 at 2:02 AM, EvyL said:

note: as much as people say the Scharnhorst twins were battlecruisers because right of gun, NO. the twins are, by right of keel, BATTLESHIPS so yeah.

People tend to say that because they saw Scharnhorst in game first. In reality, Deutschland-class came first so Scharnhorst's guns came from cruisers, not Graf Spee's guns came from battleships.

Also since when "battlecruiser" means tanky hulls (battleship level of protection) with puny guns? Does that mean an NC with Baltimore's guns is a battl3cruis3r too?

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Super Tester
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5 hours ago, Paladinum said:

This ship doesn't fit in a German BB line (when that happens). Too fast, too thinly protected. The only example of "true battlecruiser" that the German had ever built/designed. Kiter? Yes. Tank? You'll die against a good-enough Graf Spee in a brawl.

From my pals who are deeply interested in naval stuffs, this ship has a turtleback armor (in true German capital ship fashion). Can probably tank a bit. Tank against non-big gun cruisers, that is. Still, this thing was mocked as “Ohne Panzer Quatsch” ("without armor nonsense").

Tier 7 premium. Glass cannon version of Gneisenau. If WG want to be generous, a reward ship in similar fashion to the Dude of Yokes back in New Year's campaign. Probably buff the accuracy a bit. Even brawling in a Gnei couldn't make her guns any more accurate.

 

People tend to say that because they saw Scharnhorst in game first. In reality, Deutschland-class came first so Scharnhorst's guns came from cruisers, not Graf Spee's guns came from battleships.

Also since when "battlecruiser" means tanky hulls (battleship level of protection) with puny guns? Does that mean an NC with Baltimore's guns is a battl3cruis3r too?

 

While the Scharnhorst guns were improved from the panzerschiffes, to be fair, the Deutschlands werent the first to pack 28cm guns as those things were present in WW1 on some actual battlecruisers like the Seydlitz or dreads like Nassau, never mind the pre-dreads. Different calibers, but roughly the same barrel diameter. 

 

It also gets thrown around that a fast capital ship with guns smaller than 356 gets slapped with "ermagherd is a battlecruiser" despite how beefy the hull is to some apart from the set notion that the Renowns and Hood threw out there as archetype battlecruisers, much like how some refer to the Dunkerque (some docos I saw before refered to the twins as "battlecruisers" likely because small guns) or the Twins in question.

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3 hours ago, EvyL said:

While the Scharnhorst guns were improved from the panzerschiffes, to be fair, the Deutschlands werent the first to pack 28cm guns as those things were present in WW1 on some actual battlecruisers like the Seydlitz or dreads like Nassau, never mind the pre-dreads. Different calibers, but roughly the same barrel diameter. 

Those 283 mm are from a different era so they are different. The guns on Scharn and Gnei were technically (improved) leftovers from a previous panzerschiff project (D-class) that got cancelled. The twins were set to get 3x2 380, but never got them (they got rekt, like most German capital ships, ever).

Scharn-class is what I call "small-gunned battleships". Not that small if you think about it. Also there's bunch of people who defiantly refer to Alaska as "battl3cruis3r".

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Super Tester
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2 hours ago, Paladinum said:

Those 283 mm are from a different era so they are different. The guns on Scharn and Gnei were technically (improved) leftovers from a previous panzerschiff project (D-class) that got cancelled. The twins were set to get 3x2 380, but never got them (they got rekt, like most German capital ships, ever).

Scharn-class is what I call "small-gunned battleships". Not that small if you think about it. Also there's bunch of people who defiantly refer to Alaska as "battl3cruis3r".

 

Behavior wise, ain't she practically that? The Americans are even going to great lengths in telling everybody then that the thing was just a big ass cruiser but there will be people who refer to them as such. 

 

Its probably gun size they first notice that equates as a battlecruiser for the capital ships. Plenty of skids I noted call the Twins, Dunkerque and Alaska as a battlecruiser and not the overall hull integrity, the same sort of thinking that got through the Pensacolas and Northamptons.

 

In regards to the O's, perhaps it may have behaved as that since the first surefire way the Brits would have reacted was to send either of the Renowns since I get this feeling that they'll hold back Hood for a bit to assess the ship's combat capabilities despite the imperative of this battlecruiser to just simply run while shooting

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8 hours ago, EvyL said:

Behavior wise, ain't she practically that?

I ain't gonna argue with anyone about it. Call them what you please. But it feels unreasonable for people to jump to a conclusion when some little research is being done about something (clearly not you). Especially on Scharnhorst-class. I will silently and angrily judge a person who calls them "battl3cruis3rs".

PS. Where should I post tech tree suggestions? Here or Suggestions subforum?

Edited by Paladinum

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Alpha Tester
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You might want to look at all German battlecruisers from WWI and call them BB's since they all had armour to fight in line battles with the big boys. (unlike British BC). Where the Germans made cuts was firepower (weight of broadside) for BC's not armour (so much). Which is why Scharnhorst is called a Battlecruiser.

But hey that's just my 2cents

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