Khabarovsk win rate has dropped markedly - can we finally stop calling it OP now?

[Moggytwo]

So the recent further nerfs to the Khaba seem to have really hit home.  One week win rate stats are now below 50%, and second last among T10 DD's (the Grozovoi is markedly better now, with a 2% higher win rate).  It not only isn't OP anymore, the ship simply isn't particularly good anymore.  I would consider it decidedly average in fact.  It has never been the best T10 DD in terms of win rate, but now it's really dropping.

The thing that makes people think it's OP is a similar concept to why people didn't like stealth fire - it's frustrating to play against, being difficult to hit so long as it keeps in it's optimal range.  Also like stealth fire, something being frustrating to play against does not necessarily make it effective.

I do think though that it's the easiest T10 to play by some margin.  When I play it I am very much reminded of certain aspects of BB play - in that the number of things you have to think about are relatively low compared to many other ships, and that it's very simple to perform to a reasonable standard with the ship.  Also the capabilities of the ship to win games by itself are relatively limited in the hands of a great player (also much like BB's), these players will have significantly more impact on the game in ships like the Groz, Gearing and especially Z-52.  So low skill floor combined with low skill ceiling.  The recent nerfs to the Khaba's torps lowered the skill ceiling significantly as well, making it more one-dimensional than ever.

So a poor to average player will generally do consistently better with the Khaba than other T10 DD's, but the better players will do generally worse. In the end though, I think a ship should be judged on it's overall capabilities, and the capability of a Khaba to have a high impact on winning the game is now much lower than most of it's contempories.  It's simply not an OP ship.

[Harpoon01]

the factor that contribute to her lower winrate is the fact that she is poorly capable to do anything that DD generally can do (capping for objective)

 

but there is no way she is no longer OP

 

if WG change her classification to Large Destroyer that go toe to toe with Cruiser, her win rate will back dramatically

[Moggytwo]

13 minutes ago, Harpoon01 said:

the factor that contribute to her lower winrate is the fact that she is poorly capable to do anything that DD generally can do (capping for objective)

 

but there is no way she is no longer OP

 

if WG change her classification to Large Destroyer that go toe to toe with Cruiser, her win rate will back dramatically

Changing it's name will up it's win rate?

[legionary2099]

13 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

Changing it's name will up it's win rate?

Many do not get it at all that khaba dd line is not your typical dd. It is infact a light cruiser with no citadel and function the same as what a destroyer leader or fast light cruiser would.

I have seen many still attempt to do objective when it isnt the smartest idea around or try to compete cap with us dd.

The line is as alien as it gets to general dd concept that WG might better off reclassify it for gameplay sake

[Harpoon01]

21 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

Changing it's name will up it's win rate?

she is basically Light Cruiser with no citadel that ill suited for recon and capping which important for winning the game

[Moggytwo]

2 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

Many do not get it at all that khaba dd line is not your typical dd. It is infact a light cruiser with no citadel and function the same as what a destroyer leader or fast light cruiser would.

I have seen many still attempt to do objective when it isnt the smartest idea around or try to compete cap with us dd.

The line is as alien as it gets to general dd concept that WG might better off reclassify it for gameplay sake

I totally agree, it functions much more like a cruiser than a destroyer.  Calling it something else won't change it's balance though.

Because it's basically a cruiser, it does 12k more damage than the next DD.  OP right? Except it does 5k damage less than the lowest damage cruiser.  So I guess it's actually massively underpowered...

In the end, it's a unique ship, and you can't actually read too much into it's damage when calling it OP or not.  Power is reflected in win rate first and foremost, and the Khaba win rate has gone down massively.

[Moggytwo]

2 minutes ago, Harpoon01 said:

she is basically Light Cruiser with no citadel that ill suited for recon and capping which important for winning the game

Well if it isn't very good at winning battles - which is the whole point of the game - then it's not very powerful is it?

It's particularly good at being annoying to fight against - that has absolutely no bearing on whether something is OP or not though.

[Aaditya_AJ]

I just have a question.. Would you like to knife fight a Khabarovsk with Gearing?(Gearing is a DD as well) lets leave it at that... Would you like to go against Khaba with even a cruiser? If Khaba keeps his distance and speed it can even take down cruisers which supposed to counter DDs...

But I'm not saying it is extremely OP.. but it is extremely annoying and dangerous..

[Phat_Cat]

15 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

Well if it isn't very good at winning battles - which is the whole point of the game - then it's not very powerful is it?

It's particularly good at being annoying to fight against - that has absolutely no bearing on whether something is OP or not though.

It's not even that annoying to fight against. For BBs which are supposed to be Khaba's food, all you need is decent aim to nuke a Khabarovsk with AP which they can't dodge thx to 6 second ruddershift. 

[Phat_Cat]

Just now, Aaditya_AJ said:

I just have a question.. Would you like to knife fight a Khabarovsk with Gearing?(Gearing is a DD as well) lets leave it at that... Would you like to go against Khaba with even a cruiser? If Khaba keeps his distance and speed it can even take down cruisers which supposed to counter DDs...

But I'm not saying it is extremely OP.. but it is extremely annoying and dangerous..

4km detection gap between the gearing and the khaba. Would I like to go against khaba in a cruiser? Yes. One good hit from a Zao is 5k and it's not difficult to hit something with 6 second ruddershift and 700+ meter turning radius at the limited range Khaba has. Des Moines can just spit out 203 shells constantly at Khaba. Minotaur has smoke and 9km concealment. If the Khaba tries to kite, I would simply turn around and take advantage of the 13.5km range Khaba has.

[Moggytwo]

1 hour ago, Aaditya_AJ said:

I just have a question.. Would you like to knife fight a Khabarovsk with Gearing?(Gearing is a DD as well) lets leave it at that... Would you like to go against Khaba with even a cruiser? If Khaba keeps his distance and speed it can even take down cruisers which supposed to counter DDs...

But I'm not saying it is extremely OP.. but it is extremely annoying and dangerous..

Why would you choose to knife fight a Khaba in any DD?  All the other T10 DD's have a 4km detection advantage over the Khaba, they can absolutely dictate the circumstances of any fight with no issues whatsoever.  As for cruisers, it depends on the cruiser, but most have no problems hitting a Khaba at anything inside it's 13.5km range.  The ones that struggle have the similar or better concealment to the Khaba.

What most people don't realise is that the Khaba has to maintain it's ideal range at all times, if it gets closer than 11km to all BB's and most cruisers it's going to get melted.  This gives a narrow operating window.  This means that the ships being attacked by the Khaba absolutely dictate the Khaba's positioning.  I am constantly pushing back groups of enemy BB's and cruisers in the Khaba when I am on the weak flank because they don't like being constantly hit by shells.  But those shells will take half the game to kill a single BB, and it's only fear making them fall back, not any particularly urgent threat by my DD.  All they have to do is push in, and I either take huge damage or have to fall back.

This lack of ability to dictate the fight is one of the main reasons the Khaba is not OP.

[MatterCore]

16 hours ago, Harpoon01 said:

the factor that contribute to her lower winrate is the fact that she is poorly capable to do anything that DD generally can do (capping for objective)

but there is no way she is no longer OP

if WG change her classification to Large Destroyer that go toe to toe with Cruiser, her win rate will back dramatically

still OP, 1vs1 no ship can beat her

[drakon233]

19 minutes ago, MatterCore said:

still OP, 1vs1 no ship can beat her

any of the T10 CAs can beat her with ease, not to make mention of the T10 BBs, one good salvo from them and you are effectively crippled for the entire match

 

[THAI_THIEF]

It's never be better than anyone or anything else

[Phat_Cat]

1 hour ago, MatterCore said:

still OP, 1vs1 no ship can beat her

1 v 1 against anything, khaba has no chance. All the T10 BBs can delete it with 1 salvo. Unlike with a cruiser, angling won't even mitigate the damage.

Against cruisers, khaba is also screwed. All of the T10 cruisers can only be spotted well within their effective range. If you try to kite, they can just turn around and force you to chase them.

Against DDs, while they can't beat you in a gun fight, they can just spam torpedoes at you while staying in stealth forever.

[icy_phoenix]

Khaba is OP in a world of dumb BB and DD players. Aka NA server. Tashkent is good for her 15.4km range which is outside of most BBs optimal range. Look at khaba, 13.5. I think I have already got a few devstrike on khaba with Montana. Useless junk.

 

Khaba is a pathetic waste of a DD slot that could be better utilized by a Shima/Gearing/Grozo/52 ... pretty much anything.

[IndyChanKawaii]

28 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

Khaba is OP in a world of dumb BB and DD players. Aka NA server. Tashkent is good for her 15.4km range which is outside of most BBs optimal range. Look at khaba, 13.5. I think I have already got a few devstrike on khaba with Montana. Useless junk.

 

Khaba is a pathetic waste of a DD slot that could be better utilized by a Shima/Gearing/Grozo/52 ... pretty much anything.

Your thought is the same as mine. On reddit (mostly NA/EU players), people said they wouldn't waste time shooting a Khaba outside 10km and I just couldn't understand. Literally all you have to do is to load AP and lead around 1,2x more than a normal DD to rekt a Khaba because it has pathetic turning circle + ruddershift.

 

 

[Harpoon01]

19 hours ago, LunaStinger said:

Your thought is the same as mine. On reddit (mostly NA/EU players), people said they wouldn't waste time shooting a Khaba outside 10km and I just couldn't understand. Literally all you have to do is to load AP and lead around 1,2x more than a normal DD to rekt a Khaba because it has pathetic turning circle + ruddershift.

 

 

easier said than done, Khaba armor and speed are what makes them lazy to shoot the said ship

and she is the only gunboat that can effectively use kiting strategy

Leading the aim at broadside ship is easy, but certainly not the one moving away from you while constantly deal 2000-5000 damage to your ship every few seconds

[icy_phoenix]

30 minutes ago, Harpoon01 said:

easier said than done, Khaba armor and speed are what makes them lazy to shoot the said ship

and she is the only gunboat that can effectively use kiting strategy

Leading the aim at broadside ship is easy, but certainly not the one moving away from you while constantly deal 2000-5000 damage to your ship every few seconds

 

Oh you will be surprised to see how we rek kiting khaba with BBs. Tashkent is the king of kiting DD, not khaba by any chance.

[Harpoon01]

2 minutes ago, icy_phoenix said:

 

Oh you will be surprised to see how we rek kiting khaba with BBs. Tashkent is the king of kiting DD, not khaba by any chance.

i rarely deal with tashkent, that is mainly why

[Phat_Cat]

1 hour ago, Harpoon01 said:

easier said than done, Khaba armor and speed are what makes them lazy to shoot the said ship

and she is the only gunboat that can effectively use kiting strategy

Leading the aim at broadside ship is easy, but certainly not the one moving away from you while constantly deal 2000-5000 damage to your ship every few seconds

Hitting a RU dd with 2 second ruddershift is hard, hitting a RU dd with 6 seconds is a lot easier.