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Battleship Zao

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So apparently a Zao can bounce/shatter 420mm salvos from a G.K when slightly angled, has less than half the reload time, high fire chance with 2-4k salvos with HE being pretty easy to come by, torps and stealth....but the G.K being a BB is supposed to counter that? while being a torp magnet with bad torp belt poor AA and horrible turn radius, the biggest ship in the game oh and theres those awesome AP bombs that are targeted specifically at german BBs? fun and engaging. sure there are games where you can do well in a G.K but with everything that counts against them, not really any fun at tier 9-10 worse at tier 8 seeing as its always MM with tier 10 games.

 

Edited by Daxtacy

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the French CA is waiting.... dont make the crew wait! lets play em!

what are you waiting for? GET YOUR HENRY4 NOW!

 

u still here read this? man... got HENRY4! what? u laugh?

Henry4 have better fire chance, better gun, better chef for free baguetta and there is a bike inside the ship!

 

so awesome! GET IT NOW!!

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42 minutes ago, Daxtacy said:

So apparently a Zao can bounce/shatter 420mm salvos from a G.K when slightly angled, has less than half the reload time, high fire chance with 2-4k salvos with HE being pretty easy to come by, torps and stealth....but the G.K being a BB is supposed to counter that? while being a torp magnet with bad torp belt poor AA and horrible turn radius, the biggest ship in the game oh and theres those awesome AP bombs that are targeted specifically at german BBs? fun and engaging. sure there are games where you can do well in a G.K but with everything that counts against them, not really any fun at tier 9-10 worse at tier 8 seeing as its always MM with tier 10 games.

 

 

"Slightly angled"

D4ZCeba.png

 

I took a look at the very instant where your shells hit the enemy Zao, zoomed into the minimap and measured Zao's relative angle

wonARW3.png

at 68 degree, Zao's 30mm armour can reliably bounce 420mm AP shells.

 

Quote

Non-penetrations (bounce/ricochet) will always deal 0 damage, regardless of AP or HE (the latter cannot ricochet). However, HE shells still has a chance to start fires or break modules with its splash damage). The angles for AP ricochets are as follows:

  • 0-30 degrees -> auto ricochet (0-22.5 for USN 8" shells)
  • 30-45 degrees -> chance to ricochet (22.5-30 for USN 8" shells)
  • 45-90 degrees -> ricochet doesn't occur (30-90 for USN 8" shells)

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration#Armor-Piercing

Edited by 9mm1n

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Super Tester
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Zao has the trolliest armor of all ships in the game. Sometimes I score good hits and I even don't know why that happened, sometimes perfectly broadside salvo and do nothing at all. I literally choose a bow on yamato to shoot at instead of a zao in most cases.

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8 hours ago, 9mm1n said:

 

"Slightly angled"

D4ZCeba.png

 

I took a look at the very instant where your shells hit the enemy Zao, zoomed into the minimap and measured Zao's relative angle

wonARW3.png

at 68 degree, Zao's 30mm armour can reliably bounce 420mm AP shells.

 

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration#Armor-Piercing

Nah u did it wrong. You should measure the sight line of the minimap. The white line in the middle of the white cone in the minimap. That angle is approx the hit angle if the trajectory of the shell is perfectly flat.

Screenshot_2017-07-16-17-33-50.png

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there should be an option that BB can load half of the main gun with HE instead. so there is a chance for citadel and fire. why they never think about this.

_______

 

btw, how about Yamato 460mm main gun? still hit? or can ricochet?

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53 minutes ago, _Halcyon said:

Nah u did it wrong. You should measure the sight line of the minimap. The white line in the middle of the white cone in the minimap. That angle is approx the hit angle if the trajectory of the shell is perfectly flat.

Screenshot_2017-07-16-17-33-50.png

 

Measured it again and it's approx 44 degree, which falls into the area of "possible to ricochet". I can only imagine the Zao player probably prays to RNGesus everyday

Edited by 9mm1n

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18 minutes ago, 9mm1n said:

 

Measured it again and it's approx 44 degree, which falls into the area of "possible to ricochet". I can only imagine the Zao player probably prays to RNGesus everyday

Zao's Armour is sloped so that combined with the trajectory of the shells might get it into autobounce territory.

Edited by WongSongMing

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9 hours ago, 9mm1n said:

 

"Slightly angled"

D4ZCeba.png

 

I took a look at the very instant where your shells hit the enemy Zao, zoomed into the minimap and measured Zao's relative angle

wonARW3.png

at 68 degree, Zao's 30mm armour can reliably bounce 420mm AP shells.

 

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration#Armor-Piercing

not at all

68 degree

what 68 degree?

ship is 68 degree

what is shell been hit?

armor belt? or deck?

Frame_1b_V04_eng_small.gif

what was he aiming?

he was aiming water line and he got bounced 

autobounce.jpg

Screenshot (118).png

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16 minutes ago, Onlinegamer said:

not at all

68 degree

what 68 degree?

ship is 68 degree

what is shell been hit?

armor belt? or deck?

Frame_1b_V04_eng_small.gif

what was he aiming?

he was aiming water line and he got bounced 

autobounce.jpg

Screenshot (118).png

I corrected my measurement in a second post, see above

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1 hour ago, 9mm1n said:

 

Measured it again and it's approx 44 degree, which falls into the area of "possible to ricochet". I can only imagine the Zao player probably prays to RNGesus everyday

44°+a few degrees due to shell arc, definitely 50% bounce range. Also Zao's 30mm mid section has an incline, which further adds to the hit angle. IMO it won't fall into full auto bounce range, but considering Kurfurst's accuracy, it may only be one or two shells hitting the side belt, even if both penetrate, it won't hurt. Shells hitting the superstructure will result in overpen, hitting the weather deck will get a bounce. (No BB AP can reach 30° fall angle at normal combat range)

Edited by _Halcyon

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26 minutes ago, _Halcyon said:

44°+a few degrees due to shell arc, definitely 50% bounce range. Also Zao's 30mm mid section has an incline, which further adds to the hit angle. IMO it won't fall into full auto bounce range, but considering Kurfurst's accuracy, it may only be one or two shells hitting the side belt, even if both penetrate, it won't hurt. Shells hitting the superstructure will result in overpen, hitting the weather deck will get a bounce. (No BB AP can reach 30° fall angle at normal combat range)

looks at ishizuchi

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The real headscratcher in that video here is that 1 Kurfurst shell shattered against Zao's armor. The shatter means that the shell did not bounce, but failed to penetrate.

 

Anyone care to explain how that 16.5" shell shattered on Zao's armor?

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4 minutes ago, drakon233 said:

angleing is a thing you know

not on the weekends it isn't :)

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1 hour ago, drakon233 said:

angleing is a thing you know

so basically what you're saying is in that situation the Zao should be able to negate all damage from a battleship by angling, take over pens from superstructure hits while also being able to land salvos with HE that sometimes reach upwards of 8k damage on top of stupidly high fire chance? whats the point of using something like the G.K at that point then? isn't the whole selling point of a battleship its guns? HP doesn't mean much when fire damage is percentage based and you're so huge and slow you can't avoid anything. a yamato can lolpen just about anything and I'm talking about BB here so why can't the G.K do the same at the very least to a cruiser? 

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1 hour ago, drakon233 said:

angleing is a thing you know

Angeling on a thin skinned cruiser can backfire you know as shells pen instead of overpen. Some of my lol delete on french cruisers are by AP hitting a running or heavily angled ones

This is especially important if the enemy targeting you is a US ship as their AP dont care about angle as much

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32 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

Angeling on a thin skinned cruiser can backfire you know as shells pen instead of overpen. Some of my lol delete on french cruisers are by AP hitting a running or heavily angled ones

This is especially important if the enemy targeting you is a US ship as their AP dont care about angle as much

it depends on the distance of the ship and relative positions,

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41 minutes ago, Daxtacy said:

so basically what you're saying is in that situation the Zao should be able to negate all damage from a battleship by angling, take over pens from superstructure hits while also being able to land salvos with HE that sometimes reach upwards of 8k damage on top of stupidly high fire chance? whats the point of using something like the G.K at that point then? isn't the whole selling point of a battleship its guns? HP doesn't mean much when fire damage is percentage based and you're so huge and slow you can't avoid anything. a yamato can lolpen just about anything and I'm talking about BB here so why can't the G.K do the same at the very least to a cruiser? 

1. that's called "skilled play" which means that he benifits off of being good, which in this case is negating a large ammout of damage

2. if you dont understand the ship you are playing then you dont deserve to play it, or to complain on the forums about how "this this this is OP/UP because i cant kill/survive it" but i'll explain here since i literally have nothing better to do(screw summer vacation), the GK can take a obscene ammout of damage, is one of the best brawling BBs, especially against RNCLs and DDs, the secondary do half the job that you are supposed to do when brawling, it's literally ez mode at T10

3. there's these things called islands and DD smokes, learn to use them

4. because the guns are the only decent thing the yamato has left

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Love this thread, good bit of revision on shell mechanics that I haven't looked at in ages.

 

Great replies folks... Continue...

:Smile_honoring:

Edited by S4pp3R

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